Question for Experts: LCD Monitor Resolution: Displaying Lower Resolution without ugly scaling approximations

[imported_Lucent]

I like to know if ALL or ONLY SOME 1280*1024 LCD monitors for PC with modern ATI or Nvidia card (I have ATI X800XTPE and Nvidia 5200FX) will display resolutions such as 1024*768 and 800*600 with empty black bars and NO scaling. I am considering purchasing a 19" LCD monitor but it is important to me that I have an option of seeing the lower resolution without scaling. Empty black borders are perfectly acceptable to me. Thanks for your help.

 

[keeleysam]

In the nVIDIA driver settings, you can select centered output via DVI.

 

[imported_Lucent]

Another related question: I am interested in displaying 640*480 but can the monitor scale this to 1280*960 (4:1 pixel ratio for every pixel) with two black borders at the top and bottom of the screen, or can it only scale it to 1280*1024 (ugly approximation time)? And is DVI vs. VGA important in this issue? My el cheapo 5200FX doesn't come with DVI and I use this for my work PC.

 

[calguy]

Some monitors allow you to pick between scaling to fit and scaling to aspect ratio. Scaling to fit will fit the entire screen but will cause a slight distortion on 5:4 screens, scaling to aspect ratio will put those black bars on top and the bottom.

 

[imported_Lucent]

Originally posted by: calguy
Some monitors allow you to pick between scaling to fit and scaling to aspect ratio. Scaling to fit will fit the entire screen but will cause a slight distortion on 5:4 screens, scaling to aspect ratio will put those black bars on top and the bottom.

Awesome. So will "scaling to aspect ratio" on a 1280x1024 LCD display:

1024x768 resolution with 1024 horizontal * 768 vertical pixels?
800x600 with 800 horizontal * 600 vertical pixels?

And will 640x480 resolution be displayed with 1280 horizontal * 960 vertical pixels since there is room to scale 4:1 with the original aspect ratio?

Thanks. Your answer will send me on the right track as I will check if monitors have this option. If the monitor does not, anybody know if this is possible using any monitor via video card control? Does it have to be DVI as keeleysam mentioned or is VGA okay as I cannot find any options in nView for my 5200fx which is VGA only.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

i am about to buy a LCD myself and i've got a similar question. suppose if i get a 1280x1028 scree n but want to play games at 800x600 (or 1028x768) how much worse is it gonna look then on a CRT (both screen assumed to be 17")

 

[CP5670]

And will 640x480 resolution be displayed with 1280 horizontal * 960 vertical pixels since there is room to scale 4:1 with the original aspect ratio?

It should be able to, but I haven't found a way to get it to work in software (my LCD itself doesn't support it). The Nvidia drivers have a fixed aspect ratio scaling option, but it has no effect.

 

[calguy]

Originally posted by: Lucent

Originally posted by: calguy
Some monitors allow you to pick between scaling to fit and scaling to aspect ratio. Scaling to fit will fit the entire screen but will cause a slight distortion on 5:4 screens, scaling to aspect ratio will put those black bars on top and the bottom.

Awesome. So will "scaling to aspect ratio" on a 1280x1024 LCD display:

1024x768 resolution with 1024 horizontal * 768 vertical pixels?
800x600 with 800 horizontal * 600 vertical pixels?

And will 640x480 resolution be displayed with 1280 horizontal * 960 vertical pixels since there is room to scale 4:1 with the original aspect ratio?

Thanks. Your answer will send me on the right track as I will check if monitors have this option. If the monitor does not, anybody know if this is possible using any monitor via video card control? Does it have to be DVI as keeleysam mentioned or is VGA okay as I cannot find any options in nView for my 5200fx which is VGA only.

No for a LCD to display a resolution other than it's native resolution it has to use interpolation to display that resolution. It's similar to what happens when you zoom in on a digital image.

 

[imported_Lucent]

Originally posted by: tanishalfelven
i am about to buy a LCD myself and i've got a similar question. suppose if i get a 1280x1028 scree n but want to play games at 800x600 (or 1028x768) how much worse is it gonna look then on a CRT (both screen assumed to be 17")

On my laptop with 15" 1024x768 screen (the screen is HUGE for a laptop), I played Command and Conquer Tiberian Sun at 800x600 with black borders and no scaling and the picture is RAZOR sharp. I mean, it blows away the picture quality of a CRT, which has a gaussian distribution of pixels and not exact one to one like a LCD. When changing to scaling to fit entire screen, it looks like mud, very poor. For my laptop, all I do is press alt+f5 and it switches between scaled and non-scaled. What I don't know is how to do this for LCD's for PC's.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: CP5670

And will 640x480 resolution be displayed with 1280 horizontal * 960 vertical pixels since there is room to scale 4:1 with the original aspect ratio?

It should be able to, but I haven't found a way to get it to work in software (my LCD itself doesn't support it). The Nvidia drivers have a fixed aspect ratio scaling option, but it has no effect.

It doesn't have any effect on your computer? It works here. There must be a bug in the driver for your particular card. I'm not sure where to report bugs to nVidia, but they used to have a driver feedback link somewhere on their site IIRC.

Originally posted by: Lucent

Thanks. Your answer will send me on the right track as I will check if monitors have this option. If the monitor does not, anybody know if this is possible using any monitor via video card control? Does it have to be DVI as keeleysam mentioned or is VGA okay as I cannot find any options in nView for my 5200fx which is VGA only.

I believe it's DVI only. With VGA the card cannot tell whether you are using a LCD or a CRT, and only LCD's benefit from these scaling controls.

 

[nullpointerus]

Originally posted by: Lucent

Originally posted by: tanishalfelven
i am about to buy a LCD myself and i've got a similar question. suppose if i get a 1280x1028 scree n but want to play games at 800x600 (or 1028x768) how much worse is it gonna look then on a CRT (both screen assumed to be 17")

On my laptop with 15" 1024x768 screen (the screen is HUGE for a laptop), I played Command and Conquer Tiberian Sun at 800x600 with black borders and no scaling and the picture is RAZOR sharp. I mean, it blows away the picture quality of a CRT, which has a gaussian distribution of pixels and not exact one to one like a LCD. When changing to scaling to fit entire screen, it looks like mud, very poor. For my laptop, all I do is press alt+f5 and it switches between scaled and non-scaled. What I don't know is how to do this for LCD's for PC's.

As someone else said, nVidia cards let you do it in the driver. You right-click on your desktop, select your monitor under displays, and click on it. The window that opens should have four scaling options in it - you can't miss it. Here's more information:

http://www.tweakguides.com/NVFORCE_6.html

What you're looking for is about 1/3 the way down that article page.

 

[imported_Lucent]

Thanks nullpointerus, I looked for more info and found nvidia cards fx series and up have four scaling options avaliable:
1. Display adaptor scaling
2. Centered output
3. Monitor scaling
4. Fixed aspect ratio scaling

Basically everything I'm looking for. It appears that this is avaliable for DVI only.

For ATI it appears two options are avaliable for CCC and Control Panel:
1. Expand to Full Panel Size (same as display adaptor scaling)
2. "Scale Image" checkmark OR "Use centered timings"

For "Expand while maintaining aspect ratio" it is unclear and appears to be hit or miss for ATI. For laptops, even with identical screen resolutions and similar chipsets (x600 and x700) some have it avaliable like Sony vaio while some like the Toshiba Satellite don't. For desktops, I found a page with no details but states:

"ATI - Fixed Aspect Scaling is now available in the Catalyst driver set. It has been seen in "off the shelf" cards for the x800 series (and later), and in laptops with the x1000 series.:"
http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wi...ming_with_Blackbars_%28Pillarboxing%29

Does anyone with radeon X800 series card have the option "Expand while maintaining aspect ratio" available? Maybe it is enabled in the latest catalyst drivers. Here are two pictures with one available in CCC and another in the Control Panel:

CCC "Expand while maintaining aspect ratio"
Control Panel "Expand while maintaining aspect ratio"

Here is a forum page I found with info on this matter:
http://www.widescreengamingforu...0&sid=bad8bc01dac8d533f52589b08f533bd8</a>

 

[AllGamer]

many of the Centered option from both ATI / nVidia

only works if you are using DVI (digital vga) output

you can not use that option, if you use standard VGA analog output

 

[Shadowmage]

ATI drivers can easily do scaling like that.

 

[imported_Lucent]

Originally posted by: Shadowmage
ATI drivers can easily do scaling like that.

Do you mean "Expand while maintaining aspect ratio"? I know there are two options generally avaliable for ATI:
1.Expand to Full Panel Size
2.Use centered timings

Do you have the option "Expand while maintaining aspect ratio"? If so, what is your ATI card and driver version? To tell the truth, I am still building my gaming rig and I can't test it myself. Thanks.