Question for Christians

[PCResources]

<< You're right, but that doesn't change anything. Glad you see it my way >>



I know you Matt, you are one of those die hard &quot;you just have to believe&quot; people, we have had discussions in the past, but not anymore...

I am just sick of people trying to force their beliefs down my throat, and you are one of those people...

That is why i was so defensive towards Burn, people like you give christianity and religion a bad name...

Patrick

 

[notfred]

It's really hard to find people willing to have intelligent discussions on topics like this. you need to stop flaming each other if you want to learn anything. Burn - although I dont neccesarily agree with you, I respect you for the way you handle youself in here, without name calling and always trying to be informative.

 

[PCResources]

Well, you know burn, i think that the whole HELL/HEAVEN thing was created to scare people, to make them do the right thing...

Obviously it does not work very well...

One thing, why is your life important, isn't it just a long trip into eternity... If we are just supposed to do good and then die and go to heaven, what was the point of our lifes?

What happens when a great looking girl with a nice cleavage sits across from you at the railway station or wherever, do you not think about how great that cleavage looks, don't you get that boner because god does not want you to?

I think that you do, you react as any sane male would, from instinct, go forward and procreate, the rest of the BS is just that, BS...

So, if you are married you still get those lusts, but are they sinful, will you burn in hell for them?

Patrick

 

[Burn]

<< Well, you know burn, i think that the whole HELL/HEAVEN thing was created to scare people, to make them do the right thing... >>



That is where you and I differ, I believe what the bible says.



<< One thing, why is your life important, isn't it just a long trip into eternity... If we are just supposed to do good and then die and go to heaven, what was the point of our lifes? >>



God created humans to be companions with him, but then we had the whole Adam and Eve thing with the fruit... Now my &quot;purpose&quot; in life is to live a life that glorifies God, and to encourage others to believe in him and live lives that glorify him.



<< What happens when a great looking girl with a nice cleavage sits across from you at the railway station or wherever, do you not think about how great that cleavage looks, don't you get that boner because god does not want you to? >>



Make no mistake, I am still a male human being, and I am subject to the &quot;lusts of the flesh&quot; as the bible puts it. I lust just like anyone else. The thing is that it still is wrong. That is where I need the strength God gives me to resist, or his forgiveness when I sin.



<< So, if you are married you still get those lusts, but are they sinful, will you burn in hell for them? >>



As for marriage, God gave us a very &quot;exciting&quot; way to reproduce, and I am going to take advantage of that.

 

[PCResources]

<< God created humans to be companions with him, but then we had the whole Adam and Eve thing with the fruit... Now my &quot;purpose&quot; in life is to live a life that glorifies God, and to encourage others to believe in him and live lives that glorify him. >>



In other words, you are living your life the way you imagine that god would want you to live it, you are living for god, nothing else, am i right?



<< Make no mistake, I am still a male human being, and I am subject to the &quot;lusts of the flesh&quot; as the bible puts it. I lust just like anyone else. The thing is that it still is wrong. That is where I need the strength God gives me to resist, or his forgiveness when I sin. >>



LOL, this would actually mean that either you resist it (i don't think so) or you just do her and then afterwards you can be forgiven and the whole incident is forgotten... What if this would happen over and over again, would you still be forgiven?



<< As for marriage, God gave us a very &quot;exciting&quot; way to reproduce, and I am going to take advantage of that. >>



Indeed he did, but that was not my point, my point was, you would still get that boner when you see that hot woman right? Even if you are married you are still a man, right? Well, would that be sinful? And what if you gave in to your &quot;lusts of flesh&quot; in such a situation, would you still be forgiven? (by god that is, the woman would never forgive you, even if she says she does, whe really doesn't)...

And does that same go for women, are they as intitled to the &quot;lusts of flesh&quot; as men are?

Patrick

 

[ThisIsMatt]

<<

<< You're right, but that doesn't change anything. Glad you see it my way >>



I know you Matt, you are one of those die hard &quot;you just have to believe&quot; people, we have had discussions in the past, but not anymore...

I am just sick of people trying to force their beliefs down my throat, and you are one of those people...

That is why i was so defensive towards Burn, people like you give christianity and religion a bad name...

Patrick >>

Hey, I could respond to this with &quot;Don't judge me, Patrick, don't judge me.&quot; People like me, eh? You don't &quot;know&quot; me, and I don't claim to know you either. When did I try to force anything down your throat? Name one time, I don't recall talking to you beforehand.

/edit: And why is it that I have to fit some standard of yours that signifies a &quot;Christian&quot;? I'm sick of hearing that. I don't claim to be perfect, I'm FAR from perfect, and I don't know any other Christians that claim to be either...

 

[Burn]

<< In other words, you are living your life the way you imagine that god would want you to live it, you are living for god, nothing else, am i right? >>



I am trying to live my life the way the bible (God's word) says I should.



<< LOL, this would actually mean that either you resist it (i don't think so) or you just do her and then afterwards you can be forgiven and the whole incident is forgotten... What if this would happen over and over again, would you still be forgiven?LOL, this would actually mean that either you resist it (i don't think so) or you just do her and then afterwards you can be forgiven and the whole incident is forgotten... What if this would happen over and over again, would you still be forgiven? >>



God does keep forgiving, but if I am saved, and then hence I want to please him, I won't continue in sin. Also, when you have God on your side he gives you strength to do what is right. Being tempted is not a sin, Jesus was tempted, but giving in to temptation is sin.



<< Indeed he did, but that was not my point, my point was, you would still get that boner when you see that hot woman right? Even if you are married you are still a man, right? Well, would that be sinful? And what if you gave in to your &quot;lusts of flesh&quot; in such a situation, would you still be forgiven? (by god that is, the woman would never forgive you, even if she says she does, whe really doesn't)... >>



Ya, I could still get a boner... And yes, God still forgives.



<< And does that same go for women, are they as intitled to the &quot;lusts of flesh&quot; as men are? >>



Women are subject to lust just the same as men are.

 

[PCResources]

<< Hey, I could respond to this with &quot;Don't judge me, Patrick, don't judge me.&quot; >>



I have no need to hide behind a religion, i just state what i see, you and i have had this discussion before, please just use the serch function...

As you seem to be a bit more humble this time around i will not pass any further judgement upon you, please respect my wishes and follow my example... Thank you. (this is the end of our discussion)



<< I am trying to live my life the way the bible (God's word) says I should. >>



So i was right in my assumption? a simple yes or no will do fine thank you...



<< God does keep forgiving, >>



No matter how horrible the crime might be and how many times you have done it? If you at the end of your life fell regret and am willing to repent will you still be forgiven?



<< Women are subject to lust just the same as men are. >>



That question probably seemed strange to you, but i have heard different opinions on the subject from different members of the local churches...

Patrick

 

[ThisIsMatt]

Patrick - fine, I don't recall ever forcing anything down anyone's throats around here, my posts are just my opinions &amp; beliefs. If me answering &quot;yes&quot; to the above mentioned &quot;guy&quot; going to hell is forcing something on someone, then I'm guilty. Maybe you saw it that way, sorry. I'm surprised that there is any discussion in this thread at all other than pure flames... I tried a search(current &amp; archived) and didn't come up with any other &quot;religious&quot; threads where we've spoken, nevermind forced anything down throats.

 

[RossGr]

<< Scary people. >>



Why is the fundamentlist scary to me. Because they threaten my way of life and indeed potentally my life. I do not but a bit of faith in in your concept of god as you represent it. It is people of your ilk who burnt witchs at the stake 4 centruies ago, same bible so by your words you must believe the same now. That is scary. You must also be comfortable with your kinship with the grand inquisitor, same bible. That is scary.

Your, all you need to do is believe statement is scary, As this frees you of any responsibilty of your actions. You seem to have seperated yourself from the teaching of christ. I simply do not understand how you can throw out the teachings of christ and still call yourself christians. The teachings of christ are fundamental to anyone who dares to call himself a chistian if you do not put them first you are not a christian. I perfer to think of your kind as Paulist, leaving the term Christian for those who follow the teachings of Christ, the man, the teacher.

 

[vektor]

Believing your going to heaven is just part of your super ego.Why would you think that just because you did good things that you deserve to live forever?I personally never need hell as an excuse to do good things.I just embelish in the fact that being a good person makes me happy,and thats all the motivation that I need.I guess that theroys too simple for the average human.

 

[thraashman]

I think that if their was a God he'd be a bastard and a hypocrit to exclude someone from heaven simply for not believing in Jesus Christ as being his son. What most christians are unwilling to accept is that one's beliefs are not choices.

Example.
I don't believe in God. I didn't choose to not believe, I simply realized I don't believe.
I believe in aliens. With all the universe that is out there It seems likely that there'd be more life too.

Or let's try something that can't be argued as much.

I believe Britney Spears is HOT. It something my brain senses. My brain sees Britney Spears and says YUM.

I believe 2 + 2 is 4. No matter how much you tried to convince me otherwise, you couldn't make me truly believe otherwise. You could make me say that I do, but my mind would always doubt.

A belief is not something that can be changed with words or facts or in most cases even experiences. A belief is formed in how your brain interprets things.

If you believe in God out of fear of Hell, then you don't really believe in God. You instead fear the possible concept of Hell. Most people, even those who don't believe in God, fear everything about death.

And as someone said early in the thread. Yes I think most religions do promote ignorance. There's a reason that when religion ruled the world they called it the Dark Ages.

 

[MrPALCO]

<< If a kind, honest, and decent man lives his entire life doing good things, ...................... but his mind just isn't able to comprehend it, do you still believe that he is going to hell? >>



If a kind, honest, and decent man was told that there was a bridge out, crossing a 500 foot deep gorge, that his car was about to round a corner and drop into, would he be killed at the bottom in impact?

Every man will have the warning in one form or another.

Every man either decent or crooked will decide to listen to the warning or not.

Jesus.

 

[RossGr]

How fortunate we are to have MrPalco. He can explain all, and it is so simple.

 

[compuwiz1]

MrPalco, you have gone too far. You are becoming a religious psychotic.

I believe that if a man lives his life, according to the teachings of Christ, as best as he can comprehend, he will see no hell.....not even remotely the kind of hell he would see, if he pissed off the wrong woman. :Q

 

[MrPALCO]

<< It is people of your ilk who burnt witchs at the stake 4 centruies ago, >>



How long will you point to the past wrongs of Men who acted like fools, to mask the gorge that is ahead?

The bridge is out, do something now.

Jesus.

 

[AznMaverick]

Yah...i wuz wondering the same thing about gay people...

 

[compuwiz1]

MrPALCO, you sign off as Jesus, that is a disgrace, even to the athiests.

 

[bandXtrb]

Perhaps MrPALCO thinks he is Jesus? If so he suffers from a little grandiosity

 

[RossGr]

<< How long will you point to the past wrongs of Men who acted like fools, to mask the gorge that is ahead? >>



They justified their behavior with the same INFALLIBLE book you base your believes on. You cannot disown them. IF you disown them then you must admit there are some troubles with your belief system. The book IS YOUR ONLY SOURCE of wisdom. How can you besure that your beliefs will not be disowned by future &quot;chritians&quot; as you are now attempting to disown the behaivior of the witch burners and the grand inquisitor.

 

[RossGr]

<< The bridge is out, do something now >>



Sit at the edge of the chasm and contemplate a path forward.

OR

follow the gorge to the next bridge.

 

[crt1530]

I had a very highly educated Jesuit Priest as a teacher for two years. He NEVER said that believing in Jesus was the only way to Heaven. You can all go on praising your lord jesus christ, and I will live my life to the fullest. Life is NOT about praising some superior being; it is about being the best person you can be and being a positive influence in the world. I will have no fear when my time comes, because I will know that I lived my life the way I wanted and no all-powerful being will strike me down for not believing in one particular version of an ancient people's beliefs.

 

[RossGr]

crt1530: check my profile for a small shock.

where do you work?

BTW well said.

 

[bandXtrb]

I was wondering, if people aren't really capable of understanding God, how were people able to write the Bible, and how can its accuracy be trusted?

If this question doesn't make sense I apologize, AT is the my primary source for religious information, heh

 

[kingen]

I know it's kind of late in the thread but as far as I remember the deal is something like this:

If you're a nice guy (according to God) but for one reason or another either don't believe in christ or don't even know about him you end up in purgatory where you get to repent for a while and then eventually you end up in heaven (if you don't repent you're doomed to stay in purgatory forever).
According to Dante Aligheri's Divine Comedy people such as Platon, Sokrates and other &quot;enlightened&quot; people were hanging around in purgatory waiting to get into heaven.

Maybe this is only true for catholics - I don't know.
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&quot;Beer. Now there's a temporary solution.&quot; - Homer J Simpson