Question answered. Thank you. Sinking now.

[bolinder]

So I was fairly confident when I bought these components that I had what I needed (and wanted), but in preparation for my new computer the more I read the more I question my decision. I am unlikely to change my current build, but as I prepare for the next one I wanted to double check. Current build (from summer 2012) follows:

- Corsair HX750
- Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H
- Intel i5-2500K
- Gigabyte GV-N670OC-2GD GeForce GTX 670 2GB
- Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 1600
- Samsung 830 256GB
- Seagate Barricuda 2TB

Everything is stock at present, including CPU using stock fan. No need for advice here, I am waiting for spousal approval to buy something like the Corsair Hydro H100i (buying more for aesthetic reasons than performance). I plan to overclock the CPU once I upgrade the to a better cooler; nothing spectacular and not for any reason other than to say I did it. It's been a long time since my Celeron 450 overclock days. No plans to overclock GPU, SLI, etc. This thing can handle my occasional Diablo and WoW (and likely Starcraft, if my kids convince me to buy it). My intent was just to have a solid computer that would last a few years and make me happy.

With that information, is the PSU enough or should I have bought the HX850? No worries if I overbought with the 750. Like I mentioned, the intent was to last a few years with no complaints. I ask because I am preparing to buy parts for my second build below:

- Corsair AX760i
- Asus Maximus V Gene LGA 1155
- Intel i5-3570K (but still considering i7-3770K)
- Gigabyte GV-R797OC-3GD Radeon HD 7970 3GB
- G.Skill Ripjaws X 16GB (still shopping, leaning towards 2x8GB)
- Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB
- HDD (undecided)

With this second build, do I need (or should I want) the AX860i? Same drill as before, expecting to lightly overclock the CPU, nothing on GPU and no dual set-up.

First build is in Corsair 650D case, which I plan to replace with Corsair 550D. The second build will be in a Corsair 350D with window.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the PSU choice and needs. Confusion comes from all the posts that seem to want to overclock as much as possible, but not spend too much on parts. I am not worried about cost and I want to stay well within the capabilities of my equipment. I know I don't need (and don't want) the AX1200i, but since the 860i(850) and 760i(750) are so close in size, cost, etc., I want a second (or third) opinion that I didn't (and won't) cut my build short.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Torn Mind]

A 500-550W PSU is sufficient for delivering the proper wattage to the components. This of course assumes the PSU is not mislabeled and that the 12 volt rail has a lot of rated amps for it. (Watts=volts*amps). And no, this not hyperbole. The evidence is out there. I will just use two example.

One review shows the total system power of a system with a Radeon 7970 GHz Edition to consume, on average, 314 watts running 3dMark, with a maximum pull of 350 watts. This is "At the wall", however. PSUs are rated "at the output connectors", and you must multiply the "at the wall" by the efficiency percentage to get the "at the outputs" value. The effciency of those giant 1000 W 80 Plus Silver PSUs is probably around 85% since the system is pulling around 25-35% of its max wattage.
One caveat is that this review using an overclock 3960X, a more power-hungry chip than a quad-core Ivy Bridge.
Anandtech also reviewed the card. The highest wattage recorded was with the system running Metro 2033 pulling 391 watts at the wall.

Wattage is bound mostly by the MOSFETS in the secondary and has no effect on protection circuitry, component manufacturer selection(who makes the caps, transformers, resistors), or the manufacturing process(soldering job, burn-in testing, inspecting the unit in the factory). That said, the AX760i does have all of the other aforementioned goodies in the previous section.

You are better off buying a separate line conditioner(a high-end one) and buying a $60-$100 PSU from a reputable manufacturer than paying for profit margin and wages on a ridiculously high-end PSU. Although, if cost is truly not an issue, you certainly can get both.

 

[bolinder]

Thank you very much. I feel better with my AX760i(HX750) selection now. Hopefully a few more people will weigh in, also. Gotta love the validation and support of others.

I am thinking of changing the video card on the second build, but the power draw would be consistent with the numbers you posted (Asus MATRIX-HD7970-P-3GD5 Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB). Again, my primary concern is aesthetics and long life, not cost. And by long life, I mean that I don't want my new computer to become an instant dinosaur when the next generation of parts comes out.

 

[lehtv]

AX760i will handle any dual graphics card solution you throw at it. You have a single graphics card.

And by long life, I mean that I don't want my new computer to become an instant dinosaur when the next generation of parts comes out.

Have you considered actually waiting for the next generation? AMD's next generation cards should be out in a couple of months.

Other than that I think any 7970 will have about the same life span for two reasons: the performance difference between the slowest and the fastest 7970 is not huge, and the 7970 typically overclocks well so you can bridge a lot of the gap between cards by manual overclocking. If budget is no concern though... why not go with an EVGA GTX 780 Classified or a Galaxy GTX 780 HOF?

 

[bolinder]

Thank you for the response.

Have you considered actually waiting for the next generation? AMD's next generation cards should be out in a couple of months.

I haven't followed GPU release dates. It will just come down to when I make the purchase. Also, I don't need the latest and greatest. I try to read Tom's Hardware "Best GPUs (SDDs, CPUs, etc.) for the Money." I am more of a #3 kind of guy. Years (10-15) ago I tried to keep up with the top of the line and it seemed something better came out every other day. I didn't have the money back then. That's when I did more of the overclocking--buy a model or two down then OC to top level. I found I could score much better deals on the forums buying someone else's #2 hand-me-down than buying the top and being outdated a week later.

If budget is no concern though... why not go with an EVGA GTX 780 Classified or a Galaxy GTX 780 HOF?

Budget, as in being able to afford the part, is not a concern, but that doesn't mean I want to spend top dollar. As I mentioned above, owning "the" best isn't the goal, just high-end-enough that will hold its own for a while. I seem to recall that last year when I bought the 670 it was #2 or #3 on Tom's Hardware list for best bang for the buck GPU. I am following the same approach this round, except I want to try a Radeon card instead of Nvidia. No reason other than variety. The 7970 seemed to be the #2 Radeon on the August 2013 Tom's Hardware Best for the Money guide, so that is why I selected that card.

 

[Nec_V20]

I went with the AX860 but only because I got a really good deal where it cost literally just pennies more than an HX850.

I don't yet trust the AX760i and if you want my tuppence worth I would say go with an AX760. It is also platinum but you are not being the gamma tester for Flextronics. Seasonic made Corsair PSUs have a proven track record.

 

[bolinder]

I will definitely consider the AX760. I was looking at the "i" because of all of the Corsair Link features, which look interesting, but not necessary for my application.

Off topic, but for any casual readers passing through this thread, which forum is the correct place to ask about sound cards? Thanks.

 

[lehtv]

I don't yet trust the AX760i and if you want my tuppence worth I would say go with an AX760. It is also platinum but you are not being the gamma tester for Flextronics. Seasonic made Corsair PSUs have a proven track record.

Flextronics made the AX1200 which released over 3 years ago. It was very well received, no doubt the reason Corsair continued to use Flextronics for their high end units.

The AX*i units are also very well reviewed. There is no reason not to trust them. http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page447.htm

I will definitely consider the AX760. I was looking at the "i" because of all of the Corsair Link features, which look interesting, but not necessary for my application.

I would actually consider Gold 750W units from other manufacturers... Like this:

XFX 750W XXX $90 AR @ncix
- 80+ Gold, fully modular
- Seasonic X-750 KM3 clone
- review by hardwaresecrets

The extra drop of efficiency with Platinum just isn't worth much. That, and 2 more years of warranty, is pretty much all you get for the extra $60+ you'd spend on an AX760. AX760i would cost $100 more.

 

[bolinder]

As a manufacturer, is XFX better that Corsair (or Flextronics)? On NewEgg the linked XFX seems to line up with the Corsair HX750 that I have. It seems like the HX was the least expensive Corsair with fully modular cables at the time I purchased it.

The color scheme on the XFX is OK, with black and white, but I like the shot of red from the AX series logo. The interior of the second computer will be black, red and white. The current computer is blue. Aesthetics....

Thank you for the recommendation and additional information. I am just happy to know that the 750W range is plenty of power for my computers. Slowly, but surely I will re-learn some of the PC knowledge I knew years ago. A lot has changed and others things have stayed the same.

 

[lehtv]

XFX is not a manufacturer, just a brand. Some of their units, including the one I posted, are exact clones of Seasonic's self branded units, while others are for XFX only but still Seasonic made. As a manufacturer, Seasonic is top tier. Most of their units are very reliable and high quality, there are some duds but they are few and far between.

What do you mean "XFX seems to line up with Corsair HX750". In what way? Specifications or user reviews?

If you want to pay for how the unit looks, that's up to you of course.

 

[bolinder]

What do you mean "XFX seems to line up with Corsair HX750". In what way? Specifications or user reviews?

I was reading the specifications and price on NewEgg.

I imagine my desire to match aesthetics is a partial form of OCD. I like to match brand (and coordinate color) as much as possible. The hard part is deciding where to compromise, since it seems rare that all the best (or second best) can be had from a single manufacturer. I make the assumption that the manufacturer (or brand) has taken the time to make sure their own parts work together. E.g. my Corsair case with Corsair PSU, fans, CPU cooler, etc., and Gigabyte motherboard and GPU. On the second build I was going to use more Asus, but since the Corsair has served me well I was going to stay with the brand. It also offers some familiarity.

As an aside, I picked the Asus motherboard for the 350D case, but I was really struggling with the GPU. My Gigabyte has been great and I like the triple fan design, but I was torn because the colors didn't match. I have just about convinced myself to get an Asus GPU Radeon 7970 just so the colors and parts match. Makes for a more-than-needed expensive build, though.

 

[Teizo]

Don't rule out the Seasonic 760 Plat or 750 Gold. I don't know if they still make Corsair psu's or not...but they used to. 5 bucks cheaper on both models.

OK, virtually same price so comes down to which name you want on the box, but 5 bucks can get you a quizno's sub 😛


/Oh, I see. You have a Corsair case which is why you are mainly wanting Corsair. I understand the pull to match brands. I chose my MSI motherboard because I got MSI's 760.

 

[Torn Mind]

There is absolutely no reason to doubt Flextronics' ability to "make" PSUs. It is quite clear from the reviews themselves that the hardware is flawless and the only problem is defects, of which there cannot be a 100% guarantee. Now, since there is software involved, there can be some growing pains, but the 760i is the best PSU on the market performance-wise.

 

[bolinder]

I understand the pull to match brands. I chose my MSI motherboard because I got MSI's 760.

Hey! A fellow color- (brand-) coordinator. Sadly, my wife doesn't get it. I keep showing her pictures of the various components to explain why I spend 20% extra on certain parts to match. Lots of eye rolling, especially yesterday when I told her I was going to spend about an extra $100 on the GPU so the brand would match the motherboard. I am nervous about the treatment I will get when I start ordering (and she sees the receipts for) the sleeved cables to color-coordinate...

 

[Teizo]

Hey! A fellow color- (brand-) coordinator. Sadly, my wife doesn't get it. I keep showing her pictures of the various components to explain why I spend 20% extra on certain parts to match. Lots of eye rolling, especially yesterday when I told her I was going to spend about an extra $100 on the GPU so the brand would match the motherboard. I am nervous about the treatment I will get when I start ordering (and she sees the receipts for) the sleeved cables to color-coordinate...

If your wife likes clothes, maybe you can explain it to her that way. Do you have a windowed case? Otherwise, don't let her know it will all be hidden inside the case 😛

 

[lehtv]

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to ignore brand and color inconsistensies if your case didn't have a window?

 

[aigomorla]

Person 1: Yeah my GPU needs to be Red.. cuz my board is Red...
Person 2: but can u see the red in the board once your heat sink and gpu's are inside?
Person 1: ummm... i think so....
Person 2: is your cable job clean and efficient to even see beyond a spiders web.
Person 1: ummm.... im a fast learner.
Person 2: so why did you color match to begin with when very little will be seen?
Person 1: Because i have BRIGHT LED's inside to make things light up.
Person 2: *gives up*


^ in your wife's defense..

 

[bolinder]

Person 2 (my wife): *gives up*

^ in your wife's defense..

That's dead on. 🙂

The windowless wouldn't help me because I would still know the parts don't match. I'm one of those (sad, lame, etc.) people who walks around the house to make sure all the two-way light switches are down (not the up, but off position) before I go to bed.

A long time ago I told myself I was going to quit building computers and just pay to have one made exactly how I wanted, with the fancy cables, matched parts, etc. I bought an Alienware just like I wanted, but then it arrived on my door nearly dead. Their customer support was very helpful at trying to resolve the problem and determined that something happened to the motherboard in transit. They offered to send out a new motherboard for me to replace. I explained to them that the entire reason for me buying their computer was so I would NOT have to build it myself. I offered to ship it back and let them fix it, with Alienware paying shipping both ways, but for whatever reason that didn't work for them. I told them I would just rather return it and keep working with my own cobbled together computers. However, before I sent it back I took pictures of the case, the layout, the cabling, everything, so I could improve my own builds. My next computer, in my opinion, was practically an Alienware clone, in appearance anyway.

My current case (Corsair 650D) sits on top of the desk just to my right. This is my first case with a window, but I like it. I follow a lot of the fancy builders online (those who seem to know what they are doing) and see features I really like and would like to copy. It's just a sad pride thing to sit at my desk and look in the window and see the inside of my computer look like it was meant to be seen, not just function.

Current cable management is pretty clean. I have a clear view of the entire motherboard from where I sit. My blues aren't a perfect match, but close. That's why I need to try again. The current build was not initially a color-match design, more a brand match. It turned out pretty good, but not perfect. I tried matching too much instead of complementing colors. For example, I should have gone with black memory with blue accent, instead of the opposite. The blues don't quite match. No LEDs inside the case (yet), but the keyboard and mouse are both blue lit (though different brands).

Outside of the case I am still working on better ways to manage the cabling behind the computer. I have been using Apple laptops and iMacs since that post-Alienware computer, so I had forgotten how bad the cables can be when you have all the parts. But it has been a fun project. I had hoped it would involve my older boys more, too, but they don't seem to care. They want to play games on it, but not understand why one performs better than the other. Maybe in time.

Thank you all again for your replies. I am going to change the thread title some to slip into the netherworld, because you have all helped with the question I had. That is, a 750W should be fine for what I am building, so it just comes down to aesthetics, brand, and cost. Probably in that order of priority, too.

 

[Nec_V20]

Flextronics made the AX1200 which released over 3 years ago. It was very well received, no doubt the reason Corsair continued to use Flextronics for their high end units.

The AX1200 was not digital. That is the difference to the current Flextronics made Corsair PSUs and as such they do not have a track record that I can judge them on.

That's why I stuck with Seasonic and the AX860 without the "i".

As I say for something this critical to my system I will let others be the gamma testers.

 

[Torn Mind]

Failure of the DSP processing part of the PSU is no different from failures of another component such as a capacitor, as integrated circuits are probably responsible for the digital signal processing

 

[Nec_V20]

Failure of the DSP processing part of the PSU is no different from failures of another component such as a capacitor, as integrated circuits are probably responsible for the digital signal processing

As I stated before in this thread, I got the two AX860s I bought for just pennies more each than it would have cost me to buy an HX850. It was cheaper even than what I saw on offer for an AX760.

However I was not tempted by the AX860i or AX760i because I can guarantee there is some component which, although it might not be something that fails, is prone to a defect - annoying rather than fatal.

The true test of a component is the test of time. My years of experience with the Seasonic built AX850 has been so positive in every way that I was not in the least tempted to bolt that stable.

 

[Torn Mind]

As I stated before in this thread, I got the two AX860s I bought for just pennies more each than it would have cost me to buy an HX850. It was cheaper even than what I saw on offer for an AX760.

However I was not tempted by the AX860i or AX760i because I can guarantee there is some component which, although it might not be something that fails, is prone to a defect - annoying rather than fatal.

The true test of a component is the test of time. My years of experience with the Seasonic built AX850 has been so positive in every way that I was not in the least tempted to bolt that stable.

The only way to test the PSU is to test each individual part with the proper tools and see if the numbers are in spec. Multimeters, ESR meters, load testers, and the like.

PSU components are not made in-house but are actually standard parts from a multitude of companies used for a multitude of applications. The onus is on the PSU manufacturer to select the best component manufacturers; who exactly is the best is only incompletely known for the typical buyer.

A defective component would "show itself" with some sort of observable symptom and be traced to an actual culprit. Final testing would be done with a multimeter, ESR tester, etc for the particular component. I simply don't see a widespread rash of defects like there was in the days of the capacitor plague and if there is, it would affect all manufacturers who used that particular part.

There will always be a defective unit once in a while. Even the vaunted AX series had a documented instance of melting things(Newegg 1-star review). But, for most people, the units will be issue-free.

The review samples showed no issues with the hardware, although the issues with the special software has been documented and hence, it is the program developers that need to get on their horse.