question about war and wow

[flexy]

I am an avid WoW player, but as we all know there are many points in regards to WoW which should be improved, be it general issues (the eternal grind.... or more specific character issues, character imbalances etc. (Some of those might get fixed in wotlk)

I really want to hear the opinion of avid WoW players who now started playing War, and point out if and where war is better than WoW. I dont know war, hwoever i played DAoC for some time.

My biggest complaint about wow is that many elements are repetitive, especially things like doing daylies....and the fact that many mobs basically look the same. WoW is an endless grind for badges and gear...and sometimes i am getting sick of it. Nevertheless, i like playing WoW and i am very much looking forward to the expansion.

I like PvP too although destr lock is very bad in 2v2 arena, and i have all PvP purples already so grinding honor in normal BGs doesn't give me any big gain ATM.

So....if you're playing WAR...tell me why WAR is/could be better than WoW?

G.

 

[Mide]

I've only been playing for 2 days, but I'm a Lev 15 and here are the main points of comparison where I find that WAR has greatly improved over that of WOW

1) Soloing is very possible everywhere. Most of the time if there are a group of 3 mobs, you can pull each, one at a time.
2) If a quest wants you to click on an object, where your toon kneels down and interacts with an object, this does "not" auto-trigger the mobs around that object. This wins points with gettin' quests completed with a minimal amount of hassle
3) PQs. These are very fun, everyone contributes and you don't need to be grouped to make it happen. All in open areas and not instanced.
4) PQ "rolling" for loot. This is a fantastic way of getting loot. The more you contribute the higher the chances that you get a good bag. It even keeps track of how many times you have attempted a PQ before getting a bag, so if you try and try but still don't get a bag, the next time you try more points get allocated to your score because you are persistent.
5) Knowledge Tome. This is more of a random fun feature but it's very LOTRO-esque in terms of keeping records of kills and you earning special titles for deeds done.
6) Traveling from zone to zone is MUCH faster than WOW. There is just one short cutscene of you leaving your area and then the next screen loads. No longer do you have to waste a bunch of time watching your toon sitting on a griffon forever.
7) PVP anytime. You have a button that allows you to join a queue whenever you want so you can be out questing and then wait for the PVP session to start...no longer are you camped out at a major city all day long.
8) A whole lot more blues and purples and a lot more random drops so it does not ever feel like you have to do 1 thing (raid), in order for you to get good loot.
9) Finding a group is much easier. Their interface shows you what groups are doing what may that be PVPing, PQing, or PvEing. It also displays how much time it would take to get to the group so if you see a group doing a PQ, you click on a button to join their group and then you make your way towards them.

I haven't experienced all of the features that this game has to offer but as of right now it's a ton better than WOW. And I'm not being some overenthusiastic fanboy, I'm just a player that is looking for some "fun". That's what this MMO seems to have more of. There seems to be more opportunities to have fun and get quests done in a quick and efficient manner. There is a grind of course considering that all games have some sort of leveling system, but it's not a dragging type of grind. The equation for me is: go into new area, gets quests for area, do quests while exploring map, finish quests, find PQs, Do PQs, if in the mood get into PVP queue while questing, finish all quests in the area and play through all PQs on map at least once, move on to the next area.

PVP is more/less the same as WOW, but I seem to live a lot longer in WAR for some reason. The fun factor is also about the same.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I haven't really liked party quests, but that's probably because I only have done the very first one in a couple of different areas. It seemed like being a DPS class was the only way to get top contribution points.

Casting animations are buggy and often desync from what's really happening server side. Overall feel of the game is lacking in polish and I even get hardlocks every once in a while. It's worse than what WoW was in open beta.

Grinding scenarios (battlegrounds) seems to be the fastest way to level, and since you have repeatable quests in them it pays to stay near the warcamp (town). I play order with very fast queue times so that might be making a difference.

I only said what I'm finding bad about the game; I'm sure others will cover what's good. Overall, I'm having fun, but I'm only playing a little at a time, and really just running scenarios. If you have cash to spare I say it's worth giving a shot atleast.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Hmmm, not even sure where to start. Been playing WoW for years, after researching extensively and actually checking out Wrath(beta) I decided it was time to move on, I honestly wouldn't be playing WAR now if it wasn't for Wrath redefining suckage from my perspective.

I had two main toons, my mage which was my first and by far the most time into(around 150 days played) and my drood with a ton less(around 40 days played, maybe less, haven't checked in a while). These two gave me a good chance to really appreciate how profoundly bad Blizzard is at balancing classes. Mages got slammed constantly with a nerf bat, even when it was clear they were way behind everyone else- Blizz game up with a dmg tax on them... shocking how lopsided it was. OTOH you had droods, retardedly OP in both PvE and PvP and pretty much were given huge buffs in every patch and with every piece of new gear(just check their pvp gear vs priests, droods get way more mp5- which they need even less then priests, and don't pay any penalty for it). Played through most of the Tier6 content(and through the T4/T5 blah, blah, earned my bear mount etc) Just a bit of a side tangent, just framing things so you can understant my current PoV on WoW

First off, not entirely sure what the last poster was talking about but WAR isn't remotely close to WoW in terms of PvP. The general idea between how you get into a BG may be close, but that's about it. All of WoW's characters were built around PvE first and foremost. PvP was a tragic afterthought which as of now is just plain embarassing. WAR, OTOH, was built entirely around PvP and it shows- both in PvE and PvP. This profoundly changes the game mechanics, the equal of a prot warrior in WAR has TONS of utility in PvP- straight PvP mind you, not just for tanking Van/Drek The Chosen class, one of Dests main tanking classes, has an ability called Guard, I can pop that on you if you are say a healer and absorb 30% of the dmg you would take(that gets real nasty if it's another tank say, carrying a flag and I pop it on him ), another talent called hold the line where I reduce every friendly targets dmg taken by ~15% as long as they are behind me. These are just fairly simple examples, just trying to point out the general theme that runs throughout WAR- everyone, every spec is viable in PvP.

You mentioned how much you love grinding( ) WAR will probably let you down there. If you die? Yep, they took out that painful walk back to your corpse- no more grinding out gold for repairs either, not in the game, all you get is a debuff you can pay off(normally about the cost of killing any random mob your level) or wait 15 minutes and it will go away(10% reduction in hp, it does stack though ). Grinding to level? Not likely to be needed, if you are willing to do a bit of traveling(which is MUCH faster then it is in WoW) you will outpace the quests for most of your playing time(before doing all the Tier2 quests for each of the three zones, you will be well into Tier3). It isn't like I have gotten to play around with end game yet, but so far grinding is pretty much non existant in the game at all.

Instances are FAR less frequent then they are in WoW, but PQs(Public Quests) honestly make it so I don't miss them. You don't even have to be in a group- just show up and if a group is already working on it, you just help them out and as long as you contribute you get to roll on the loot- without ever having to be in their group(these reset quickly). Loot drops are a bit better setup then WoW too. You roll on bags of loot, inside the bag will normally have a couple of good items and some random junk- you get to chose one item for yourself. There will ALWAYS be something you can use in the bag(by that I mean equip, I suppose it is possible that you may already have the item in the bag at which point you could take one of the other randoms or the money).

The RvR in WAR is actually really enjoyable(far more so then the instanced PvP IMO). Each zone you enter has a certain segment that is flagged for open PvP, inside these zones there will be objectives you want to tak to gain control of the area. Sieges on keeps have been a blast so far, you have to batter down the gates, fight off the guards(NPCs) while dealing with the opposing faction. You can enter and leave these zones at will, participating in them or the other type of PvP will gain you renown points which level up much like normal leveling(you also gain XP from PvP kills). Renown levels don't go away like the old ranking in WoW if you were playing then, but they give you access to the same types of rewards the old PvP system in WoW did. Unlike that system, a constant grind isn't necessary, just play when you can and you will level up your renown at your own pace. Another element that is nice about the RvR or PvP system, if you jump in to a BG or RvR zone at level one it will promote you to level eight to give you a fighting chance(your stats will be adjusted up to go along with this). Not quite the same as actually having the level as you won't have the new talents etc, but it won't be like walking into WSG at level 10 and getting one shotted over and over by that twink from the opposing faction(heh, doesn't even really need to be all that twinked for that matter with a 9 level difference). Also, this game pretty much eliminates twinks as you see them in WoW, because you gain XP in BGs you won't be having to deal with obscenely OP toons as you do in WoW.

Oh yeah, back to the grinding element. You get your mount at level 20. By the time you get to that level if you are relatively frugal with your money(which there is no reason not to be honestly) you will likely have double the amount of gold you need for it. Nothing like WoW where you could spend a week or more grinding out the gold to get your basic transportation. Also, respecs so far are incredibly cheap, so if you were a spec akin to a destro lock and wanted to respec back and forth for PvE/PvP it would be a nominal amount at best, nothing like the 50G a pop that WoW charges you for frequent respecs. This isn't likely to be an issue though as from everything I have seen every spec is viable in WAR period, although specs do seem to make much less of a difference on your toon overall.

Another thing I like about WAR. You train a talent once. Rank15 Shadowbolt? No, there is one rank, and every time you level up it gets more powerful. At some point you may get 2 talents for one level, but from what I have seen so far you get one new talent with each level. This may not sound like much at first, but considering you are never buying new ranks of anything and you get it every level it actually feels like more then WoW has by the time you get into your 20s. Also seems to be less lame duck talents then in WoW, some you will certainly use more then others, but I have yet to get one and think 'when the hell am I ever going to use this'.

So far I am absolutely loving WAR. Maybe Blizz will fire a certain egocentric developer and fix what they are doing in Wrath and make it so WoW would be appealing to me again, but even if they do at this point I wouldn't drop WAR. Too much to like about this game right now. Maybe when I get to end game and see what they have to offer my tune will change, but I am having an absolute blast with it so far.

 

[Malladine]

It's tough to comment on the "grind" because for a true comparison you need to look at end game vs end game really, but so far for me there is no grind, at least not as you're seeing in WoW.

Not much I can add to Ben's post, except that some ranks you do receive two abilies and every other level, starting at 11, you gain a "mastery point" which you add to one of three Masteries, making all abilities within that Mastery more powerful and unlocking tactics and new spells/abilities as well.

In RvR he's right about all classes having utility. It's awesome to play knowing that you haven't been screwed or forced into a certain build (I was a Warrior in WoW, 60 days played).

Graphics are better than WoW...if that matters at all. The models are cool, some are definitely reused as in WoW, that's no different than any other MMO however.

 

[skace]

I'm going to tell you a little secret that most people playing WAR won't admit. The games are similar, and the only reason they are really playing WAR is because it is something new. That's the defining characteristic. Give them 3 years and every person playing will have their laundry list of shit they don't like.

Now, let's take a look at your complaints about WOW:
- Eternal Grind & Repetition: Look, I can throw these 2 complaints at any game in the MMORPG genre. Seriously, that isn't even a joke. You want to get away from a grind? Try a different genre, like FPS.
- Character Imbalance: Despite all the bitching you might hear on the WOW forums, the classes are actually balanced extremely well. The fact is, even when classes are balanced flawlessly people will still bitch, because they don't want balance, they want an advantage. Perfect balance is when all classes are bitching equally.

So looking at your complaints, level with yourself, you're burnt out on WOW. You aren't looking for something better, you are looking for something different. Now War isn't very different, but it's different enough to give you that break you are craving. Think of it this way, you'll either enjoy War or you'll realize what you've been taking for granted in WOW.

So I say go for it.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: skace
Now, let's take a look at your complaints about WOW:
- Eternal Grind & Repetition: Look, I can throw these 2 complaints at any game in the MMORPG genre. Seriously, that isn't even a joke. You want to get away from a grind? Try a different genre, like FPS.

Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route. You're right about repetition though, it's hard to avoid that to some extent. However Mythic have taken a shot at making a dynamic player driven game, which is the major way to avoid the worst kinds repetitious gameplay.

- Character Imbalance: Despite all the bitching you might hear on the WOW forums, the classes are actually balanced extremely well. The fact is, even when classes are balanced flawlessly people will still bitch, because they don't want balance, they want an advantage. Perfect balance is when all classes are bitching equally.

Agreed, lol. There's no such thing as perfect, certainly not in regards to MMO class balance. Way too situational.

I agree also that WAR isn't different in that they definitely learned and imitated many aspects of WoW. But as you're saying, to someone who has dozens, or hundreds, of days in WoW it can seem quite refreshing and indeed is. Mythic for sure improved many aspects as well, and came up with innovative ideas of their own. WAR is an evolutionary step, but that's not a small thing

 

[Vehemence]

I played WoW extensively since launch until April 2008, and have been playing WAR now since it launched. WAR's a more entertaining MMO than WoW ever was, IMO, due to a few things. The entire focus on the war between Order/Destruction is everywhere, with RvR having some sort of role in just about everything you do. PvE is still existent and has the great PQ system, but is definitely less focused on than RvR. World RvR, scenarios, keep sieges, city sieges, victory points for zones are all incredibly fun. Numerous things to achieve, such as Ranks, Renown Ranks, Influence, Guild Ranks, alliances, and capital city ranks add variety while still pushing a focus towards RvR.

The major problems are the fact that it's such an RvR focused game that it's much more dependant on the player base than WoW was. Server, realm, race, and class imbalances can really cause an impact on everything on the game since nearly everything has an RvR aspect to it. Performance issues, bugs, and missing features (like item linking, more emotes/commands, right-click menus on player names, enemy portraits, better inspections, etc) are quite noticeable but not completely game breaking. For a launch MMO, the game is pretty stable and well ironed out, with people complaining about various stuff just to complain. It's not nearly perfect, but expecting it to be is folly.

All in all, WAR is very similar to WoW, but with an RvR/PvP spin on the entire game. Whether that's a positive or negative is pretty subjective. The similarities are very abundant between the two games and a transition from one into the other is pretty smooth, with WAR still bringing enough differences to make it enjoyable and not just seem like a WoW expansion or something. It's the most fun I've had since 2004-2005 WoW and it's definitely worth looking in to.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Malladine
Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route.

You know why I know that's false? When people were leaving EQ for WOW, the big reason was to get away from the grind. WOW revolutionized that piece of the game by giving you quests that give massive amounts of exp, far more than you ever got in EQ. In EQ people would spend 8 hours at the same monster camp and then log out at a safe spot in the dungeon and go back to that same camp the next day. That was the grind. But now the grind has changed, now it's a grind if you have to do quests. Face it, people are going to label any work they have to do as a grind.

The point? There will always be a grind. It's guaranteed there will be one in War.

 

[Malladine]

yeah, people will label that as such, but i'm saying it doesn't need to be that way. That's just how it is with a game based on levels, i guess.

I cite UO in '97. I played for a year with no sense of a "grind" or needing to "do work". It was simply a fun, exciting experience. Then again i suppose if i'd played longer a grind could have been waiting for me. I just don't like the term I guess. I think from now on when an MMO feels like a grind to me it's a cue to move on!

 

[Beev]

I played WoW and still play WoW, but I needed a change of scenery for a bit so I figured I'd pick up WAR.

For me, the PvE of WAR is nothing special. I always feel like I'm playing WoW, with a few improved features. For instance, I like the way they mark quest locations on your map. The game is even easier than WoW too. I can take 4 even con mobs no problem. Unless a ranged mob bugs up and isn't really standing in melee range and I can't hit him and I don't know where he really is...

PvP is IMMENSELY better than WoW. Seriously, if you are primarily a PvP'er then you need to quite WoW.

 

[ggnl]

I won't touch on everything because some people have already explained it much better than I can, but WAR in general feels much more dynamic and player-driven then WoW. Yes, you can solo yourself all the way to lvl 40 if you wish, but there's no reason to. All the best parts of the game (RvR, Scenarios, PQs) are run in groups, but you can always find a group because of the open group tool. You NEVER have to stand around like a bum spamming chat to find a group, you just pull up open groups and you get a list of every group in the zone, along with what they're doing. Then it just takes a single click to join and you're good to go.

Also, because you're doing roughly the same stuff at lower levels that you'll be doing at higher levels, I don't feel the need to rush through the low level content. Everyone gets a piece of the action, not just the people at max level. I have an equal amount of fun playing my lower level alts than I do playing my highest lvl charcters.

To summarize the high points, there's a much wider variety of activities available to do from the outset, and there's much less downtime because the grouping tools are vastly superior to WoW. Lvl 10's can have just as much fun as lvl 40's. Class balance is much improved because there's no competing agendas (PVEers vs PVPers), and the graphics are better too.

Now the downside. My single biggest gripe right now is that the WAR's client seems a little more laggy and slightly less responsive than WoW's. Pathing issues and syncing issues between the client and server are still pretty common.

It's clear that it's going to take a while to work all the bugs out, but they've been making steady improvement and the bugs that remain are not gamebreaking in any sense, more of a nuisance.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Malladine
Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route.

You know why I know that's false? When people were leaving EQ for WOW, the big reason was to get away from the grind. WOW revolutionized that piece of the game by giving you quests that give massive amounts of exp, far more than you ever got in EQ. In EQ people would spend 8 hours at the same monster camp and then log out at a safe spot in the dungeon and go back to that same camp the next day. That was the grind. But now the grind has changed, now it's a grind if you have to do quests. Face it, people are going to label any work they have to do as a grind.

The point? There will always be a grind. It's guaranteed there will be one in War.

Well thankfully it appears MMORPGs are moving towards less of a grind. EQ was insane, DAOC was close to insane, WoW was nearly insane, and WAR is simply crazy.

It is a business model, one I never understood. Is it easier to develop and balance 30 zones for lvl 70 or 30 zones for 70 different levels?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Well, I've been playing WAR for awhile now and have yet to decide how I feel about it. I think I'm more in line with Skace on this, it isn't so different from WoW and I only like it because it's something different. I'm not even quite sure just how different it is yet.

One thing I do enjoy about it from the PvP aspect that you will NEVER see in WoW is the collission detection. If I'm getting beaten on as a healer I know I can go get behind those bulky tanks and no one can just walk right through them to keep beating on me.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Despite all the bitching you might hear on the WOW forums, the classes are actually balanced extremely well.

No, they are not even close to being balanced well. I have a toon at either end of the spectrum, mages which are the whipping boy of Blizz atm(for the last couple years) and the drood which is the golden child. The classes are absurdly far apart in PvE or PvP. I walked into BT with nothing but Kara and crafted gear on the drood(tree) and easily healed the place(poorest finish ever was second healing BT), the mage can't dream of being top tier dps in full Tier6. That isn't my perspective, that is the cold hard reality of the game. While not as easy on the gear requirements, I could also get my bear gear to a level to OT in BT fairly easily. Sadly, mages are much closer in PvE then they are in PvP to droods.

In full on PvE gear with 0 resil I laugh at full S4 mages, they do not stand a chance. Unless they are very well played, I chuckle at two of them. Not until I get 3 mages that play reasonably well do I have anything at all to fear. Oh yeah, my druid also has vastly superior CC to a mage in arenas or BGs, can shape shift to have 10x the armor(in my raid gear, 20x in pvp gear), can hit travel form to escape(mages have the extremely sketchy blink) and I can push around 500dps in straight healing gear with my normal raid healing spec(which means mages don't even get to live all that long- against a healer...).

No, I have toons at either end of the spectrum, have ~50K HKs(nothing huge, but some BG time in)- farmed out almost complete arena gear sets for each toon, have considerable amounts of time into both and raided up to Tier6 content with both- Blizz isn't approaching anything resembling balance.

 

[Lumathix]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Malladine
Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route.

You know why I know that's false? When people were leaving EQ for WOW, the big reason was to get away from the grind. WOW revolutionized that piece of the game by giving you quests that give massive amounts of exp, far more than you ever got in EQ. In EQ people would spend 8 hours at the same monster camp and then log out at a safe spot in the dungeon and go back to that same camp the next day. That was the grind. But now the grind has changed, now it's a grind if you have to do quests. Face it, people are going to label any work they have to do as a grind.

The point? There will always be a grind. It's guaranteed there will be one in War.

This is what I don't get. Why is playing the actual game a negative thing? "Grinding" is playing the game. Leveling up is playing the game. Do so many people really only play these games to race to the max level then focus on raiding?

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Lumathix

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Malladine
Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route.

You know why I know that's false? When people were leaving EQ for WOW, the big reason was to get away from the grind. WOW revolutionized that piece of the game by giving you quests that give massive amounts of exp, far more than you ever got in EQ. In EQ people would spend 8 hours at the same monster camp and then log out at a safe spot in the dungeon and go back to that same camp the next day. That was the grind. But now the grind has changed, now it's a grind if you have to do quests. Face it, people are going to label any work they have to do as a grind.

The point? There will always be a grind. It's guaranteed there will be one in War.

This is what I don't get. Why is playing the actual game a negative thing? "Grinding" is playing the game. Leveling up is playing the game. Do so many people really only play these games to race to the max level then focus on raiding?

Well I can't comment on WAR because I've haven't made it even close to max level, but in WoW you can think of "the grind" as the barriers to entry that you have to overcome before you get to do the part of the game that's actually fun and entertaining.

Stuff like running the same instance 100 times to gain access to faction enchants, or having to spend an hour a day doing daily quests so you have to gold to raid, or spending 40-80 hours in battlegrounds every time a new pvp season rolls around so you can get the latest gear to be competitive on your arena team.

None of the things I described above are really unentertaining....for the first couple hours, but 50 hours in, it starts to feel like work. Unfortunately, it's unavoidable if you really want to compete at the endgame. It's a means to an end, plain and simple.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Malladine

Originally posted by: skace
Now, let's take a look at your complaints about WOW:
- Eternal Grind & Repetition: Look, I can throw these 2 complaints at any game in the MMORPG genre. Seriously, that isn't even a joke. You want to get away from a grind? Try a different genre, like FPS.

Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route. You're right about repetition though, it's hard to avoid that to some extent. However Mythic have taken a shot at making a dynamic player driven game, which is the major way to avoid the worst kinds repetitious gameplay.

Agreed, I started playing WoW when Burning Crusade released and you could tell that there was a major shift in development: it was MUCH easier to gain reputation with many of the BC factions, for example, and it was much easier to get to lvl 70 than it is to get to lvl 60.

For example, take any of the old endgame factions that you can play around with at lvl 60. Some of those reputation requirements are absolutely insane; you'll be running Zul'Gurub 1,000 times before you master that faction. On the other hand, many BC factions were relatively easy to gain reputation with, such as the Violet Eye (Karazhan). Still, mastering whatever the faction was that gave you the netherdrake was a ton of work (but since I was grinding for gold anyway, it made the daily quests there not seem so bad).

Still, it is clear that the grind is the main purpose of WoW. Ultimately the only objective is better gear so that you can clear 'ludicrously difficult dungeon X'

Geeze, enough talk, I'm glad I quit last October lol

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Lumathix

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Malladine
Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route.

You know why I know that's false? When people were leaving EQ for WOW, the big reason was to get away from the grind. WOW revolutionized that piece of the game by giving you quests that give massive amounts of exp, far more than you ever got in EQ. In EQ people would spend 8 hours at the same monster camp and then log out at a safe spot in the dungeon and go back to that same camp the next day. That was the grind. But now the grind has changed, now it's a grind if you have to do quests. Face it, people are going to label any work they have to do as a grind.

The point? There will always be a grind. It's guaranteed there will be one in War.

This is what I don't get. Why is playing the actual game a negative thing? "Grinding" is playing the game. Leveling up is playing the game. Do so many people really only play these games to race to the max level then focus on raiding?

Yes, the reason I play games is to see cool new things. Doing the same thing over and over (ie grinding) is not fun.

It's not so bad if you have to kill 10x of monster A and 10x of monster B, in a completely different region. It gets bad when you're killing the same type of monster all day.

Sometimes you have to grind if you want to be able to clear a new raid instance. That's part of the experience, sure, but it's not the fun part. The fun part is seeing the new dungeon and beating the new bosses. The dull part is clearing the same dungeon over and over so that you can have enough of the right gear to beat the NEXT new dungeon.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Lumathix

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Malladine
Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route.

You know why I know that's false? When people were leaving EQ for WOW, the big reason was to get away from the grind. WOW revolutionized that piece of the game by giving you quests that give massive amounts of exp, far more than you ever got in EQ. In EQ people would spend 8 hours at the same monster camp and then log out at a safe spot in the dungeon and go back to that same camp the next day. That was the grind. But now the grind has changed, now it's a grind if you have to do quests. Face it, people are going to label any work they have to do as a grind.

The point? There will always be a grind. It's guaranteed there will be one in War.

This is what I don't get. Why is playing the actual game a negative thing? "Grinding" is playing the game. Leveling up is playing the game. Do so many people really only play these games to race to the max level then focus on raiding?

Yes, the reason I play games is to see cool new things. Doing the same thing over and over (ie grinding) is not fun.

It's not so bad if you have to kill 10x of monster A and 10x of monster B, in a completely different region. It gets bad when you're killing the same type of monster all day.

Sometimes you have to grind if you want to be able to clear a new raid instance. That's part of the experience, sure, but it's not the fun part. The fun part is seeing the new dungeon and beating the new bosses. The dull part is clearing the same dungeon over and over so that you can have enough of the right gear to beat the NEXT new dungeon.

I quit last August and put a cool 1k in my pocket selling my account, I think I even sold it too low.

 

[invidia]

I think it's still too early to make any real comparison. WAR has to get in the point where the majority of the players are in the end-game state.

And don't complain about the "grind" in any MMOs until you've played Lineage 2. Last I played and heard, it takes over 130 days PLAYED to hit the max level. But then again, the end-game in that game is very different from WoW, AoC, EQ, etc.

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: invidia
I think it's still too early to make any real comparison. WAR has to get in the point where the majority of the players are in the end-game state.

And don't complain about the "grind" in any MMOs until you've played Lineage 2. Last I played and heard, it takes over 130 days PLAYED to hit the max level. But then again, the end-game in that game is very different from WoW, AoC, EQ, etc.

Certain asian games lineage etc have always been about grinding, I played bloodymare beta and I cant stress how bad they like to force grinding.

 

[exdeath]

Socialism has found it's way to WoW in WotLK. All kinds of nerfs to prevent any kind of stacking and mathematical advantage by those who know how to play. In addition to the practice of welfare epics, all classes are being made more or less the same in 3.0, so anybody and everybody, from veteran Sunwell raiders to newbies can one button face roll their way to Arthas.

/rant

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Lumathix

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Malladine
Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route.

You know why I know that's false? When people were leaving EQ for WOW, the big reason was to get away from the grind. WOW revolutionized that piece of the game by giving you quests that give massive amounts of exp, far more than you ever got in EQ. In EQ people would spend 8 hours at the same monster camp and then log out at a safe spot in the dungeon and go back to that same camp the next day. That was the grind. But now the grind has changed, now it's a grind if you have to do quests. Face it, people are going to label any work they have to do as a grind.

The point? There will always be a grind. It's guaranteed there will be one in War.

This is what I don't get. Why is playing the actual game a negative thing? "Grinding" is playing the game. Leveling up is playing the game. Do so many people really only play these games to race to the max level then focus on raiding?

Yes, the reason I play games is to see cool new things. Doing the same thing over and over (ie grinding) is not fun.

It's not so bad if you have to kill 10x of monster A and 10x of monster B, in a completely different region. It gets bad when you're killing the same type of monster all day.

Sometimes you have to grind if you want to be able to clear a new raid instance. That's part of the experience, sure, but it's not the fun part. The fun part is seeing the new dungeon and beating the new bosses. The dull part is clearing the same dungeon over and over so that you can have enough of the right gear to beat the NEXT new dungeon.

I quit last August and put a cool 1k in my pocket selling my account, I think I even sold it too low.

Wow, I only got 650. You had sunwell gear?

 

[WaTaGuMp]

Originally posted by: CKent

Originally posted by: WaTaGuMp

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Lumathix

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Malladine
Not true. WoW pretty much made the grind the goal in itself, MMOs don't need to take that route.

You know why I know that's false? When people were leaving EQ for WOW, the big reason was to get away from the grind. WOW revolutionized that piece of the game by giving you quests that give massive amounts of exp, far more than you ever got in EQ. In EQ people would spend 8 hours at the same monster camp and then log out at a safe spot in the dungeon and go back to that same camp the next day. That was the grind. But now the grind has changed, now it's a grind if you have to do quests. Face it, people are going to label any work they have to do as a grind.

The point? There will always be a grind. It's guaranteed there will be one in War.

This is what I don't get. Why is playing the actual game a negative thing? "Grinding" is playing the game. Leveling up is playing the game. Do so many people really only play these games to race to the max level then focus on raiding?

Yes, the reason I play games is to see cool new things. Doing the same thing over and over (ie grinding) is not fun.

It's not so bad if you have to kill 10x of monster A and 10x of monster B, in a completely different region. It gets bad when you're killing the same type of monster all day.

Sometimes you have to grind if you want to be able to clear a new raid instance. That's part of the experience, sure, but it's not the fun part. The fun part is seeing the new dungeon and beating the new bosses. The dull part is clearing the same dungeon over and over so that you can have enough of the right gear to beat the NEXT new dungeon.

I quit last August and put a cool 1k in my pocket selling my account, I think I even sold it too low.

Wow, I only got 650. You had sunwell gear?

Nah some T6 most of the value came from 14k in gold, so thats why I said I sold it too low.