Question about the old & frail DFI nF4 Chipset (perhaps it will be nostalgic to some)

[bladedwing]

It's ashame DFI-street is no more, and Happy Games is off doing his own thing now, but I thought the trusty Anandtech ppl might be able to answer a somewhat odd question.

I am worried whether or not I had chipped the chipset of my board when removing the old heatsink, or whether it came like this from the factory when I first got it 6 years ago (I have never needed to replace the fan till now).

I noticed that 3 of the 4 corners of the nF4 chip are absolutely perfect with sharp poiny edges, but the bottom left one is just *slightly* rounded (barely noticeable, but visible with a good naked eye nonetheless). However, from some angles, that slightly rounded corner sometimes turns into what looks like a sharp corner. I thought this might indicate a chip (trying to visualize it in my head...top view = sharp, 3/4 view = rounded, etc)

However, I have taken a 10x magifying glass and held a 100 watt lightbulb 1" away, and have examined it for hours from any angle you can think of and I don't see any solid indications there is a chipping anywhere in that corner, as the factory glue around that corner is unscathed.

OK, so my questions are these, I guess: (1) I am wondering what is the method you techs use to determine if you have a chipped corner of a chipset? It has to be better than mine, because I can't even seem to conclude if there is a fault in the chipset or not... (2) Do nF4 chips have perfect 4 corners, or is it common to have one corner rounded? (3) How much should I worry this computer will not work if there is a tiny chip in the corner of the chipset? (I haven't had the chance to power it up as I still have to mod my Vantec Iceberq 4 to fit it -- it's the only VGA cooler in town I could find anywhere that would remotely work, and it will require a bit of dremelin)...but if it's doomed to not work, I won't bother putting in the effort.

Thanks...know this is somewhat of a trivial question, I'm just worried because I still need this system (I know it's old, but it's important for me to keep it running -- I've got my reasons ) and finding a replacement DFI Ultra-D at a fair price is...well practically impossible.

 

[Bartman39]

The real issue is will it boot and run fine...? No matter what the chipset looks like it will either work right or have issues and this is the real question so try it and know... Most of those boards had cap problems anyhow and I am very surprised its still working...

Yes I will ask the question what is the real need for an NF4 board...? Win 9X can be ran on other platforms if you know how (is that the issue...?)

 

[bladedwing]

Win 9X can be ran on other platforms if you know how (is that the issue...?)

HAHA! That's a good one!

No, actually believe it or not, I did buy myself a whole new rig almost 2 years ago:
Intel i7 860 Quad Core, XFX Radeon HD 5850 1GB card with Zalman VF3000a VGA Cooler, Asus P7P55D board, and pretty stable Corsair TX 650W PSU, inside a modified Thermaltake Tsunami case (I didn't want to buy a new case because I just love the reflective finish)... even bought individual cooling on each of the HDD's with some of those slim Scythe Kama fans you can mount at bottom of drives.

Then I just got unexpectedly swamped...it actually took me 2 months to get it running -- got as far as getting it rigged up, installing the OS, and drivers...and that was as far as I got. Was going to install all my software and start enjoyin' my 'new' little rig...then bam! Got hit again with a surge of personal happenings, work happenings, life happenings, etc....and partly laziness. In any case, I never did end up touching that 'new' rig for last 20 months or so ...just been sitting on a desk. And now that technology is obsolete again!

Waste of $1200 huh? lol. Well, I'll get around to finishing it up and doing my thing on it soon enough...(hopefully).

So, no win 98 . Just been using my trusty DFI mobo and Athlon X2 3800+ for last several years. But I do have various things on that computer that I want to keep...ya I know I can just keep the HDD, but there's stuff inside places like the recycle bin, txt message backups from phone software that I don't know where stored on HDD...a bunch of things...stuff I really don't want to research on how to drag over into a newly formatted system. I would have just kept doing all my stuff on it until somehow the PSU died, and then I found that the fan wasn't working, etc...now I just want it running for a few more months so I can keep doing my thing (still too lazy to finish the 'new' rig)...or at least long enough to backup everything on it (or just copy the whole documents and settings folder onto the server).

I know...stupid reason, but you asked...lol! But just as much so, I still wanted to keep the ol' DFI just as a backup computer (I always keep my last system as a secondary one).

Well, I keep examining the chipset it...the chip don't look that bad, so I'm just going to go ahead and dremel in the iceberq. Being the perfectionist I am though, I worry when stuff doesn't look exactly right...I guess it just my strange thinking that something like a core chip has to be physically perfect to run properly (no chips, knicks, etc...). Dunno why I think that way...lol

 

[Arcanedeath]

I relplaced the stock chipset fan on my NF4 SLI-DR w/ a VC-RE as the stock chipset HSF was just junk and depending on how much they polished the die at the factory some chips do look like you described. the DFI board did not have issues w/ caps that I'm aware of I still have a CCBE 4400+ at 2.8 Ghz going strong after all this time. It's an office computer now though w/ only 2 gb of ram.

 

[bladedwing]

I relplaced the stock chipset fan on my NF4 SLI-DR w/ a VC-RE as the stock chipset HSF was just junk and depending on how much they polished the die at the factory some chips do look like you described. the DFI board did not have issues w/ caps that I'm aware of I still have a CCBE 4400+ at 2.8 Ghz going strong after all this time. It's an office computer now though w/ only 2 gb of ram.

Say Arcane, do you know of any place on this planet we call earth where I can buy a VC-RE?? (Preferable online, as I don't want to make special flights just to buy a fan lol).

I had looked around everywhere, as that seemed to be the recommended replacement all over the net...can't find even a used one on ebay! I ended up finding a little known shop where I live that still sell new Vantec Icebergs. (They even have both the original A1C version and the Iceberq 4).

I ended up getting an Iceberq 4...found out it wouldn't fit, but then read how to mod it. It's a little work though, which is why I keep procrastinating...original one looks like better fit out of box...maybe I can just exchange it. But do you think the original Iceberq will perform as well as stock? I read happy games had once tested it fine, but didn't do any temp comparisons, and without the DFIstreet database, that info seems hard to find now...just get random reviews on newegg about that fan.

Just asking cause there is a X800GTO2 in that box I would like to overclock so my nephew can play StarCraft 2 on it. It's running stock speed now but I had overclocked it nicely years ago up to 850XTPE speed..........well...though now I'm not sure how that'd work out, seeing as how I maybe chipped the chipset chip -- say that 5 times fast...I dare ya! haha. (Well...then again, I guess before I plan on that, maybe I should just first focus on seeing if it will even boot, lol)

Edit: Oh buy the way, I did find a VC-RF...(well actually I bought a Startech VGA Cooler -- it looked exactly like the VC-RF, so I figured they are from same OEM design). Damn thing didn't fit. Drilled the holes to make the push pins line up exactly. I was like ya! Applied it...put all hardware back in box, then found out it was too tall for GFX card...sucks hey? Been seating fans about 3 times already finding out they don't fit...waste of a whole week...grrr...lol

 

[Arcanedeath]

http://www.jab-tech.com/Evercool-VC-RE-Twinkling-VGA-Cooler-pr-2291.html
is one spot
just do a google search for evercool VC-RE

 

[Arcanedeath]

The NF4 chipset's ran hot it definitly needed the fan and the VC-RE is all copper instead of alu, you could also look for a thermalright chipset cooler but it prolly costs more than you would want to spend on such an ancient board.

 

[bladedwing]

http://www.jab-tech.com/Evercool-VC-RE-Twinkling-VGA-Cooler-pr-2291.html
is one spot
just do a google search for evercool VC-RE

Thanks! Jab-tech on that link seems that they are 'out of stock'...like all other places on google lol.

 

[Towermax]

You might consider a Thermalright HR-05. I have one on each of my DFI NF4 Ultra-Ds and they work great--fanless and totally quiet. Used ones pop up on eBay and Amazon regularly and you can get a new one for $22.00 plus shipping here:

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...ed480e72baa3dbee7167bd5805742c2c993b14c2ae3b2

(If you need more cooling, you can add an 80mm fan to the HR-05.)

 

[hydroponik]

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but my chipset fan on my lanparty ultra-d is pretty much on its last legs.

I've been trying to search for this VC-RE fan, however all stores are OOS. Has anyone had luck finding this, or perhaps a cheap alternative? It's a shame since my opteron 165 is still solid as a rock.

If this does not pan out, I guess I'll bite the bullet and finally upgrade...

 

[bladedwing]

Sorry to bring this thread back from the dead, but my chipset fan on my lanparty ultra-d is pretty much on its last legs.

I've been trying to search for this VC-RE fan, however all stores are OOS. Has anyone had luck finding this, or perhaps a cheap alternative? It's a shame since my opteron 165 is still solid as a rock.

If this does not pan out, I guess I'll bite the bullet and finally upgrade...

Your chances of finding a VC-RE are slim...not quite as slim as getting killed by a meteor, but pretty damn close . I tried looking everywhere.

You could conceivably use a VC-RF, however, you must be aware that the height of the fan can be too high, depending on the video card you use. The stock DFI fan measures 11 mm with guard, while the VC-RF measures 14 without a guard...I had thought that it wouldn't make a dif (after all, it's only 3 mm I figured...I was wrong) you have enough room to fit the AGP in and all the rear pins will go into the slot, but not all the way. You can try this though and see if it works.

However, getting back to your question...here are some better alternatives I did:

a) Cheapest/Fastest/Ugliest Hackjob: Hopefully you still have the heatsink in good condition. Unscrew the fan from the heatsink (don't take the heatsink off the mobo, just unscrew the fan from the heatsink...it's held to heatsink with 3 screws). Be sure to keep those screws. Take the fan, go to your local computer store and buy a cheap VGA or chipset heatsink/fan kit that has a fan in similar width -- I think stock is 40 mm or 35, I can't remember. Anyway, take your new chipset kit, unscrew the fan off it. Throw away the new heatsink, since it has no fan now (or keep it if you think you have a future purpose for it). If you are lucky, the bolts of the new fan will line up with your stock DFI heatsink and you can screw the new fan into it. If not...electrical tape/super glue. Hackjob done. I didn't do this as I threw away my heatsink before I realized I could have done that. I wish I did though cause it would have saved a lot of pain-in-the-ass time.

b) Better way/A little bit of work: You easily get a Vantec Iceberq (CCB-A1C). Get the copper one. Even though the DFI is aluminum, the fan on this is smaller than stock, so you want copper to compensate so you at least kind of get similar cooling to the stock. Here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...03&Tpk=CCB-A1C. Note: There is no yellow speed sensing wire on this one. Here is where the work comes in: The diameter from pin to pin is 53ish mm, while DFI is 52ish mm. So you may have to do one of these: take either a drill and drill the holes just a bit wider, or a use a round locksmith file and file the extra 0.25 mm off each side to make them closer. I'm pretty sure you can try to squeeze it in if you don't want to drill or file, but didn't do that cause I like things to fit perfectly...but that's just me. It will fit just fine height-wise...if not, just take off the fan guard, as measures 10-11 mm, which is same as stock. I tried it. Didnt' like it didn't have the yellow sensing wire, so I ended returning it and doing the alternative #3.

3) What I did (and the most pain in the ass thing to do): Buy a Vantec Iceberq 4: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835110106. Throw the fan guard away. It will measure 10 mm high, which is perfect. Then do the same thing as above (pins are 54 mm apart...must be 52 mm). Use a metal file and/or locksmith round file. However, since you are filing away a little more metal that the alternative above, I found the springs easily fall through the enlarged holes, so get a couple 3mm metal washers so the springs don't fall through (found at any hobby store for $0.10 each). After than then you have to use a drill or metal file away one small area that interferes with the capacitor.

In my case I liked the way the fan guard looked, so I just xacto knifed away the plastic that got in the way of the card, so I can keep it looking good:

And area you have to file away to get around the capacitor.

A lot of work if you do this, but it's a good heatsink though...big, copper and blue LED! Keeps it nice looking and cool...even though it's a lot of work for such an old board. But I still like it. :thumbsup:

Hope this helps.

 

[hydroponik]

Wow, that was an awesome write up, thanks for posting that!

The heatsink is still in good condition, the fan is just making very loud noises when it speeds up, pretty much a sign it's going to die soon. Option A seems like the easiest, however what kind of store would stock these type of things? Do they even have local computer shops anymore?

Other than that, the VC-RF seems like another option, however I currently have a geforce 7900 gto and there isn'y much clearance between the fan and card as it is.

If all else fails, I think I will make a weekend project from your option C, but when you are talking about the pins, what are you referring to?

 

[bladedwing]

Wow, that was an awesome write up, thanks for posting that!

The heatsink is still in good condition, the fan is just making very loud noises when it speeds up, pretty much a sign it's going to die soon. Option A seems like the easiest, however what kind of store would stock these type of things? Do they even have local computer shops anymore?

Other than that, the VC-RF seems like another option, however I currently have a geforce 7900 gto and there isn'y much clearance between the fan and card as it is.

If all else fails, I think I will make a weekend project from your option C, but when you are talking about the pins, what are you referring to?

If it wasn't for local computer shops, I wouldn't be as broke as I am now lol! Kidding. But I did used to spend a lot on hardware. I don't as nearly as much anymore, since life got busier.

What I mean by the pins, is the two white push pins with the springs that hold the heatsink down to the mobo. On a DFI Lanparty NF4 mobo, the holes for these two pins are 52 mm apart. The reason it's hard to replace the NB fan on a DFI is because on most aftermarket chipset heatsinks those same holes are 54 mm apart...hence why modding is needed to them (a 2 mm difference is enough to make you curse when you are trying to squeeze it in to fit).

Next, if there is barely enough clearance between your VGA card and the stock fan the way it is, you probably will not have any clearance with a VC-RF. You prob can put your card in, but you will notice that when you install your vid card, you will "tilt" the heatsink quite noticeably each time you press down on the VGA card. You'll also see the gold contacts of the VGA card don't go in as much as they did before cause the heatsink is too high. You might be able to live with this, and it should even be OK. I main reason it bugged me is I didn't like the VGA card pressing right against the heatsink and I like my cards to be all the way in.

However, you can try doing is buying a VC-RF to see if it works for you. Option A is the safest and easiest (since you will not need to reseat the heatsink, and risk chipping the corner of your NB chip), but you must be aware of two things...even though minor:

1) When you unscrew the fan, be gentle and do not push down with the screwdriver with any more force than what is necessary, as you could damage the NB chip by pressing down too hard. However, DFI stock heatsinks have a thin felt "shim" around the NVIDIA chip to protect the corners, so you should be fairly safe, but still...don't press down too hard on it when taking out the fan.

2) Whatever adhesive you will be using (super glue/carpenters glue/Elmers/whatever) to attach the new fan, try to make sure the glue can will not melt under temperatures above 70 degrees C or so (usually I think the stock NB temps go upwards of at least 60 C), and the last thing you want is the fan to end up falling off and finding out months later when you re-open your case that your NB chip is fried cause there was no fan. I think super glue is OK for the most part, since TV repairmen use it, but still...make sure just to be safe.

Now, as for where to find the fan itself, any fan that's the approximately the same size as the stock DFI one (or can fit inside the stock heatsink) would work. I no longer have mine, so I don't really know the size for sure, but I think it was about 40 mm diameter and around 10 mm high...you might want to measure yours when you take yours out. The specs for the VC-RF: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835230033 say it's 45 mm in diameter x 10 mm. A bit wider than DFI, but I think that there should still be room inside the stock heatsink for it, as I remember there was quite a bit of slack space around the fan. Again, measure yours just to be sure.

Getting back to the point...if it looks like there's space to fit a 45 mm fan...get the VC-RF, see if it works for you. If it's too high, then take the fan off of the VC-RF and then glue it to the stock heatsink.

Good luck to ya!

 

[bladedwing]

Also this one has a 40 mm fan: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835230033

Seems way to overpriced for some reason though...

 

[Magic Carpet]

I had a similar problem with my NF4 mobo. I just ended up putting a bigger heatsink on it, minus the fan. Has been working fine since (3 years now).

 

[Binky]

The heatsink is still in good condition, the fan is just making very loud noises when it speeds up, pretty much a sign it's going to die soon.

Sounds like a fix requiring some strategically placed zip-ties and any old fan you have laying around.

NF4 chipsets always ran very very hot for me. I hated that platform. Most of the motherboards came with those tiny little (crappy) heatsinks with the 7,000rpm fan that sounded like a tiny jet engine.

 

[bladedwing]

I had a similar problem with my NF4 mobo. I just ended up putting a bigger heatsink on it, minus the fan. Has been working fine since (3 years now).

One of those big ass Thermalright I bet?

Sounds like a fix requiring some strategically placed zip-ties and any old fan you have laying around.

NF4 chipsets always ran very very hot for me. I hated that platform. Most of the motherboards came with those tiny little (crappy) heatsinks with the 7,000rpm fan that sounded like a tiny jet engine.

That was one of the reasons my fan died. I was lucky I didn't burn the chip on mine. When I first got mine, I couldn't stand how loud it was so I set the BIOS to only turn it on full speed at temps of 70 C, and run half speed the rest of the time. Then last year, my nephew said he couldn't turn on the computer. The power supply was dead and the fan didn't spin anymore (and even had a brown burn mark in the center of the fan). Luckily the chip still works.

The cons of the NF4 chipset are that it is hot with stock cooling. It took me two "failed" power supplies in the last 7 years or so to also realize the DFI NF4, in particular, doesn't like dual rail PSUs, so I now have a single rail one in that box. I doesn't kill them, because when I take those "dead" PSUs that don't power that board and put them into any other system they still work. On a DFI it's just finicky with the hardware that it has to work with.

The pros are that it has BIOS controls that are you'll never find on any other board. Back in the day, one of the reasons I got DFI NF4 is because I read on the Anandtech review at the time that you can buy the cheaper non-SLI Ultra version, and "mod" it into a true SLI board using only a no.2 pencil. I thought that was so cool, so it ended up in my box. Oddly, to this day, I still never put in the effort of doing the #2 pencil trick, and now that SLI is obsolete I probably never will.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

one of my fans died so it just runs as a HSF.

the other one of my boards I mounted a Vantec Iceberq HSF on it. It's slightly larger.

Both boards serve as Bitcoin mining platforms and have been mining for over a year now.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I've got some VC-RE fans stockpiled. No, you can't have one.

 

[MacGyverSG1]

I changed the HSF on one of my Ultra-Ds. Can't remember what I used. Anyone have a picture of the original HSF? I only have one of the MBs now, so I can't tell if it's original or not.

 

[Arcanedeath]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835192006

the above should work it's very similar to the VC-RE
the spacing on the holes may be a bit wide so it could be hard to put in the push pins but not imposible and if you want to make it easier you can always file the holes to make them slightly larger.

 

[hydroponik]

I've got some VC-RE fans stockpiled. No, you can't have one.

dick

Could I buy one though?

 

[hydroponik]

The cons of the NF4 chipset are that it is hot with stock cooling. It took me two "failed" power supplies in the last 7 years or so to also realize the DFI NF4, in particular, doesn't like dual rail PSUs, so I now have a single rail one in that box. I doesn't kill them, because when I take those "dead" PSUs that don't power that board and put them into any other system they still work. On a DFI it's just finicky with the hardware that it has to work with.

Hmm, my 600w ocz power supply just died from about 3 years of use. I did not think about putting it in another PC, but I just bought a corsair on sale from newegg. What does this board do to kill power supplies?

I think I'm just going to buy the vc-rf and glue that fan onto the existing heatsink. I can't even stand to use this PC anymore as the noise is unbearable lol. Hope this will work...

 

[bladedwing]

Hmm, my 600w ocz power supply just died from about 3 years of use. I did not think about putting it in another PC, but I just bought a corsair on sale from newegg. What does this board do to kill power supplies?

I think I'm just going to buy the vc-rf and glue that fan onto the existing heatsink. I can't even stand to use this PC anymore as the noise is unbearable lol. Hope this will work...

Doesn't kill power supplies per se, and there hasn't been any real evidence they do. Just in my experience dual rail PSUs tend to stop working suddenly on that particular board.

OCZ is used to probably be one of the more supported PSUs for this particular board, as OCZ had techs on that would go on DFIstreet.com back in the day, and provide some pretty good advice for their PSUs on DFI boards. But what they said what happens with their PSUs on certain occasions is the mobo gets confused and doesn't power up. Since the nF4 chipset designs didn't completely address the huge power consumption of the latest VGA cards at the time (not just a DFI one, but most mobos with that chipset) they used non-standard power connectors to help power the graphics. Sometimes with dual 12v power supplies (even if it's not a "true" dual 12v) the rails crossed when the system needed a lot of power and the DFI board would think this is a short and refuse to power up as a safety.

At least I think that is what I read one time on those forums.

 

[MacGyverSG1]

I used an OCZ and Enermax PSU for my Ultra-Ds. The OCZ had the adjustments for the 12v/3.3v/5v levels with LEDs to indicate status (Green/Yellow/Red). Haven't had a problem yet. Still running strong since late 2005.