Question about "Public Option" health care, NOT about if we should have it or not

[gotsmack]

I really do NOT want to discuss the merits or negatives of public health care.

My question is more about time line:

Q1: Obama hasn't been in office for a full year yet and he has 3 more. Why is he (and congress) so concerned about pushing this health care through now?

Something this large should be thoroughly investigated and have all options considered carefully before deciding on the correct path. I heard on the news that a bill could be sent for signature prior to Thanksgiving. This just seems like its going to be a half baked idea that can't be undone like the bail outs and the Iraq war.

Regardless of weather you are for or against nationalized health care, a reasonable person would agree that it would not be unreasonable to spend until the spring to hash out a good plan.

Q2: Why is the Govt even discussing this now when the failing economy is of much greater concern?

Focus is being diverted away from what is hurting us NOW.



I want to see congressional hearings (is that the right term?) on available options. There should be some sort of panel that puts together a list of what other Countries have done and other options that experts are putting together as the good options for the US.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: gotsmack
I really do NOT want to discuss the merits or negatives of public health care.

My question is more about time line:

Q1: Obama hasn't been in office for a full year yet and he has 3 more. Why is he (and congress) so concerned about pushing this health care through now?
He's using his political capital to push his agenda through instead of wasting his capital away on nothing or some other piece of his agenda that isn't as important

Something this large should be thoroughly investigated and have all options considered carefully before deciding on the correct path. I heard on the news that a bill could be sent for signature prior to Thanksgiving. This just seems like its going to be a half baked idea that can't be undone like the bail outs and the Iraq war.

Regardless of weather you are for or against nationalized health care, a reasonable person would agree that it would not be unreasonable to spend until the spring to hash out a good plan.

Health care reform of varying sorts has been discussed on and off for 40+ years. Nothing is being rushed. Congressional terms are also only 2 years - you're saying that Congress should spend almost 2 years drafting a piece of legislation?

Q2: Why is the Govt even discussing this now when the failing economy is of much greater concern?

Focus is being diverted away from what is hurting us NOW.

The government can only do so much in terms of the economy. If anything, pulling the health-care option off of employers could make them more efficient and competetitve with their foreign counterparts. That would help the economy. Plus, Congress and the President can do more than one thing at the same time. They aren't Single-Task Bob. The economy isn't nearly as bad now as it looked back in October when the TARP bill went through. Plus, the stimulus funds from the last stimulus bill are still being injected into the economy.

Responses in bold.

Edit:
To add, there are multiple bills going through Congress at the moment having to do with health care. They need to be consolidated and compromised on. So there isn't this one plan being pushed through mercilessly.

 

[LumbergTech]

You cant declare your opinion on the merits of the plan and then say that other people can't discuss the merits of the plan..

Well you can, but its kind of ridiculous.

 

[OrByte]

a reasonable person would acknowledge that Healthcare reform has been discussed/researched/attempted now for decades.

I don't see anything being rushed...but oppositionists would certainly like to paint that picture...

 

[bozack]

socialized healthcare has been on the dems agenda forever, but every time they make what seems to be headway in getting their prized piece of legislation through it gets crushed and they are smacked down hard...

As said above Obama is trying to use his celebrity to make this happen, they think they have the capital to steamroll it through, and really it should be something possible given they have so many seats in the house and the senate, yet for some reason it is still biting them in the ass.

If Obama cannot make this work then he will be seen as a lame duck given this was one of his key objectives...so for him it is a make it or break it moment.

 

[miketheidiot]

people have been looking at various forms of healthcare implementation since your grandparents were children.

getting health care away from employers will increase labor mobility and remove costs from employers, making them more competitive. these are good things.

 

[gotsmack]

Originally posted by: OrByte
a reasonable person would acknowledge that Healthcare reform has been discussed/researched/attempted now for decades.

I don't see anything being rushed...but oppositionists would certainly like to paint that picture...

Yea, but I doubt that atleast 50% of congress have read about what is available.

I want to see congressional hearings (is that the right term?) on available options. There should be some sort of panel that puts together a list of what other Countries have done and other options that experts are putting together as the good options for the US.

 

[First]

Because he has political capital and a majority in both chambers. He'd be stupid not to. Once it's done and once it has some form of a public option, he can move on to SS or financial regulations or gay rights or any of a number of things the previous administration did nothing about.

 

[sportage]

Clinton stared reform back in what... 1992?
It?s now... what... 2009?
I think its time. Long past time, actually.

The healthcare industry, and I think we should rename them the healthcare mafia, has big plans to raise rates and premiums beyond your wildest fears.
Just this week they made their threat. They had might as well put the head of a horse in each and every insured persons bed. Along with a note... "we're making you an offer you will not refuse".

It?s no wonder they can be cold blooded in sending sick people to their death by cutting off coverage, and not have one regret.
Actually, I think the real mob at least held some respect for women and children, unlike the cold blooded healthcare industry.

And why??? Money. Profit. Power. Control. Ownership (of your congress). Nuff said???

You think it?s been costly up to now... Just wait to see what happens if reform fails. You might as well start setting up direct deposit of your pay check straight to the insurance company of your choice.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: OrByte
a reasonable person would acknowledge that Healthcare reform has been discussed/researched/attempted now for decades.

I don't see anything being rushed...but oppositionists would certainly like to paint that picture...

so you've read the bill.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: OrByte
a reasonable person would acknowledge that Healthcare reform has been discussed/researched/attempted now for decades.

I don't see anything being rushed...but oppositionists would certainly like to paint that picture...

so you've read the bill.

i don't think he needs to, though i would prefer that the people actually voting on it do.

 

[Xellos2099]

Originally posted by: sportage
Clinton stared reform back in what... 1992?
It?s now... what... 2009?
I think its time. Long past time, actually.

The healthcare industry, and I think we should rename them the healthcare mafia, has big plans to raise rates and premiums beyond your wildest fears.
Just this week they made their threat. They had might as well put the head of a horse in each and every insured persons bed. Along with a note... "we're making you an offer you will not refuse".

It?s no wonder they can be cold blooded in sending sick people to their death by cutting off coverage, and not have one regret.
Actually, I think the real mob at least held some respect for women and children, unlike the cold blooded healthcare industry.

And why??? Money. Profit. Power. Control. Ownership (of your congress). Nuff said???

You think it?s been costly up to now... Just wait to see what happens if reform fails. You might as well start setting up direct deposit of your pay check straight to the insurance company of your choice.

No one is questioning whether there should be reform or not but mandatory health insurance and inability to deny preexisting condition will have dire consequence. Btw, IF it is such an urgent issue, how come it won't come into effect UNTIL 2013 if it pass, which is after the election.

 

[Adrenaline]

As much as people see the majority of Democrats in both houses and one on the hill there is the issue of Republicans. If the Democrats were to push something through with ZERO Republican support, you are alienating a large part of the country which is something the Democrats do not want to do. Sure, they can force through what they want, but something this major NEEDS some Republican support.

Medicare and Medicaid need waste fixed first and foremost before they do a healthcare overhaul IMO. But, that is me.

Also, I do not understand why it is that Congress has their own insurance system (along with social security) and is not subject to what they want to force upon us. This system should be for everyone if it is that good.

 

[PJABBER]

The fact is that the Democrats achieved their super majority in Congress on the coattails of Obama's anti-Bush victory. Obama is fading in popularity as the true nature of his agenda is becoming better known, the Democrats that won in conservative districts are facing the fact that some of them will not be re-elected, a significant percentage of the population wants no government meddling in yet another part of the private sector, there is a vocal minority that has made their anti-tax views known (and have no doubt that this is a TAX with severe penalties if not paid,) and 2010 will again likely see a more politically balanced Congress.

Now, the question is - will passage of health insurance legislation (remember, we are no longer even discussing health care reform, just health insurance restructuring) hurt the Democrats or help them? They believe that it will be a net positive, so they are rushing to get something passed. There is no final bill yet, that will come after both Houses of Congress get their respective committees to draft a compromise between the versions. Which will then go up for a vote. Before the vote you will see a pitched battle between the radical Democrat progressives, the Blue Dog Democrats that are generally fiscally conservative, and other factions. No Republican is likely to be invited to participate in the compromise crafting of the final bill just as they were not invited to contribute to the respective House and Senate bills. No Republican proposals have been considered or are included in any of the bills under discussion. It will be only Democrats making the legislation happen and now it will involve White House staff as well as legislative staff.

At best we will finally see a definitive Congressional Budget Office fiscal analysis, which will be roundly ignored by the members of Congress. We might have access to the final amended consolidated 1000+ page bill for a few minutes before the actual vote. If it passes, it will be without ANY Member of Congress actually reading the full text of the legislation. Obama will sign it and in a few years we will be impacted for better or a lot worse.

While the topic of health care reforms is a perennial one, the window for the Democrats to ram through a government takeover of health insurance is a very small one. If they don't act now, they will be forced to deal with a more representative Congress in 2010 and the will of the People will preclude passage of anything close to what is being pursued now.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: gotsmack
Q2: Why is the Govt even discussing this now when the failing economy is of much greater concern?

Because a "good disaster" is the only way to change a country as much as the progressives wish they could.

America on the whole still believes in Capitalism and private enterprise. When the economy recovers, there will be even less support for reform of this nature.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: sportage
The healthcare industry, and I think we should rename them the healthcare mafia

Yea, that's about as far as any rational person needs to read into your drivel.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: sportage
The healthcare industry, and I think we should rename them the healthcare mafia

Yea, that's about as far as any rational person needs to read into your drivel.

He's another one who expects hundreds of thousands of dollars of care whenever he needs it for $20 a month.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: sportage
The healthcare industry, and I think we should rename them the healthcare mafia

Yea, that's about as far as any rational person needs to read into your drivel.

He's another one who expects hundreds of thousands of dollars of care whenever he needs it for $20 a month.

I hope the insurance on your Shelby is several thou a year in casualty/PIP alone. I hope it has a rollcage. 'Cos if it doesn't, you'll be rendered a spasmodic veggie should it ever throw a tie rod and roll a few times on top of your skull, crushing it along with all of your cervical vertebrae.

I ain't paying for the consequences your dumbass life choices... not if I can help it.

I think you should tell all of us, right now, where your health and auto insurance policies are, so that we can all proactively leave you high and dry. You're too high risk.

 

[Siddhartha]

Public Health care has been an issue since what the New Deal? I hardly called that rushing it.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: bozack
socialized healthcare has been on the dems agenda forever, but every time they make what seems to be headway in getting their prized piece of legislation through it gets crushed and they are smacked down hard...

Damn right they are smacked hard - by the Democratic voters who tell them to go fuck themselves for having failed again. Just look at the teabaggers to see the popularity of socialized medicine. "Keep gub'mint outta muh Medicare!"

If health care reform is done right, the Democrats will gain seats. If they fail, they'll lose seats.

 

[Colt45]

Originally posted by: gotsmack

Q2: Why is the Govt even discussing this now when the failing economy is of much greater concern?

Focus is being diverted away from what is hurting us NOW.

I hadn't realized that. :Q
Obama should drop everything he's doing now, and wave his magic wand at the economy.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Q1: Obama hasn't been in office for a full year yet and he has 3 more. Why is he (and congress) so concerned about pushing this health care through now?

Health care in America will represent 17.7%-17.8% of GDP in 2009. The increase in costs as a percentage of GDP from 2008 was a major leap (largest in history?) and it's only going higher without immediate action (some fear 20% of GDP in a few short years).

Even Richard Nixon has got soul ....

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

A recurring theme has been "it's been discussed for years in one way or another". That's specious. Talking about something is not the same as trying to implement what would be THE major program the US has embarked on since, well, ever. This isn't a little thing like going to the Moon, or a World War. There is no, "hey let's try this and we'll see what happens". The net effect is that the government is going to play a significant part in one of the most important things there can be in your life, and that is the health of you and those you love.

Medicaid (which I work with every day) is so screwed that it's incredible it functions at all. Oh, for the politicians it's fine. After all it's been around how many decades? For people who don't use it, yeah it's great. If those here who think it's no big deal either depended on it or had to provide care under it's terms had to deal with it, we'd need a "Complain Hysterically about your health care experience" subforum.

If the Dems had cared enough to do this right, they could have commissioned a group of people who actually know something, and they could have provided sound and timely guidance ahead of legislation.

This isn't about people's health care, it's about politics as usual. Incompetents want to take charge, and as long as it's anything at all some want it.

I'll remind you that people had talked about how dangerous Saddam was for years, and they talked about his WMDs for years. Well we got a war out of it. Is this the same? No, this is far more significant to the American citizen, but people who don't understand what's going on are satisfied with people who don't know what's going on making policy, but it's the same mentality.

Not smart.

 

[heyheybooboo]

^^^^^^
No facts. Emotional. Anecdotal.


Yah got .... anything ?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
^^^^^^
No facts. Emotional. Anecdotal.


Yah got .... anything ?

Yeah, I deal with this every day. Do you? You ever try to figure out why a claim won't pay? You ever try to deal with an agency that says a service was provided which may conflict with what you are trying to do but they won't tell you where it was done in spite of the fact that it's perfectly legal and proper to find out?

Fact- The Dems could have gotten expert opinion in advance of legislation for this specific purpose within the context of actually implementing a program. Nope.

Let me guess. You only know what you read in the news, right?