Question about prehung doors... (now general door/jamb/frame questions)

[purbeast0]

I was trying to take the door stops off my basement door so I could fit my new arcade game down the stairs, however the door stops look to be part of the actual door jamb. So I then pryed off the trim, and my actual door frame is about 1" away from the actual wood it is nailed to, with 3 1" shims spaced out.

So it got me thinking - why not just get a bigger door?

So tomorrow I'm going to rip the other piece of trim off the other side and hope that there is another 1" gap, although that may not be the case.

My current door is 30" and I would like to get a 32" door if I can.

However, the actual wood behind the frames, appears to be a 2x3 instead of a 2x4, which seems to be standard.

Do they make prehung doors that are work with 2x3 instead of 2x4? Or if I get one, am I going to have to either modify a prehung door, or just actually build the frame out myself to fit the custom size I need?

 

[Greenman]

You can order a door with any size jambs you want, or you can cut down whatever jabbs come on the new door. It sounds like you have a exterior door going into your basement, which I assume isn't conditioned space. You will want the new door to be solid core with weather striping.

 

[purbeast0]

You can order a door with any size jambs you want, or you can cut down whatever jabbs come on the new door. It sounds like you have a exterior door going into your basement, which I assume isn't conditioned space. You will want the new door to be solid core with weather striping.

Sorry I didn't clarify - this is an interior door.

Where would you recommend ordering a door if I go that route? I just looked at Home Depot and Lowes and everything I saw in the size I wanted had larger jambs.

I'm a complete noob to this so getting one that I don't have to cut down would be easiest for me.

 

[Greenman]

Local lumber yard or door shop will be able to do it for you. Homey should be able to order it as well. Bear in mind that that a 2-8 door requires a 2-10 rough opening.
I'd also note that hanging a door is easy to do and easy to screw up.

 

[purbeast0]

Local lumber yard or door shop will be able to do it for you. Homey should be able to order it as well. Bear in mind that that a 2-8 door requires a 2-10 rough opening.
I'd also note that hanging a door is easy to do and easy to screw up.

I was looking on HD website and they have SO much stuff online only. They don't however let you filter on jamb size. Do you think they can do special orders like that for prehung doors? What about different door sizes too, because there is a chance I don't have space for a 32" door but would for a 31" door, and it may be useful to me for future proofing.

Not sure what you mean by 2-8 door exactly.

 

[herm0016]

2 foot 8 inch.

in the door industry, doors are labled as standard sizes like this. a 3-0 door is 36 inches for example. you want the rough opening to be 2 inches larger than your door size.

also remember, a 2x4 is usually about 3.5 wide.

if the stop is one piece with the frame, it is an exterior frame. maybe send us some pics.

 

[Greenman]

I was looking on HD website and they have SO much stuff online only. They don't however let you filter on jamb size. Do you think they can do special orders like that for prehung doors? What about different door sizes too, because there is a chance I don't have space for a 32" door but would for a 31" door, and it may be useful to me for future proofing.

Not sure what you mean by 2-8 door exactly.

For an odd size door you'll have to go to a door shop as it will have to be cut down from the next size up.
2-8 is just door size, in this case, two feet eight inches. When you order pay close attention to handing (which side the hinges are on). Everyone has their own idea of what's a left or right hand door.
When you order the door you'll have to spec the door size, jamb size, interior or exterior jambs, solid or hollow core, hinge color, single or double bore (a dead bolt) and handing.

 

[purbeast0]

2 foot 8 inch.

in the door industry, doors are labled as standard sizes like this. a 3-0 door is 36 inches for example. you want the rough opening to be 2 inches larger than your door size.

also remember, a 2x4 is usually about 3.5 wide.

if the stop is one piece with the frame, it is an exterior frame. maybe send us some pics.

Ooooh okay I gotcha with the sizes.

And yeah I was doing some research last night about the sizes of the whole frame/jamb/door and stuff.

And yeah the wood behind the jamb is 2.5" wide which is why I was saying it's a 2x3 that it is attached to. And then the jamb width is about 3.5" which I measured after doing some googling about what to measure with a new door, and then after searching, I realized that isn't a standard size.

I think from the various sources that I've seen, that mine is a left handed door.

I took a couple pics of just the exposed frame behind the one piece of trim I took off, I will try to get them in here shortly. And then later tonight after I rip the other side off, I can take some more pics.

I need to run to HD before I get home to pick up a pry bar as I think that will make it easier for me to get the trim off, so I'm going to ask them about custom doors and if they even do that stuff there. I know you said lumber/door shops too, but I figure I might as well ask them while there.

 

[purbeast0]

So I took some measurements from 2x3 to 2x3 and in parts of it is not wide enough to fit what it says is needed for 32" wide doors. It's off in spots by like 1/2" or so unfortunately. In other spots it says it will fit fine.

So 2 questions.

1. Is there any way to "squeeze" a frame like that inside of the space, and then shave parts of the door so that it fits? May be a dumb question but if it fits that way...

2. Is there any specific reason door jambs are 3/4" thick? I noticed mine is 3/4 thick and seems to be standard. Is there any reason to not use a 1/2" thick piece of wood for a jamb if I were to make my own?

I went to HD earlier and they said they can make me a prehung door with the jam being 3 9/16" wide. I will also see if they can make a 31" door but not sure if that will work or not. But damn, I'm so close to being able to get a larger door on but I don't know if I can do it.

 

[herm0016]

do you need a door there?

can you just reframe the opening and get a 3 foot door?

is is a load bearing wall? if the wall is perpendicular to the floor joists, its probably load bearing, but if its parallel to the joists it is not load bearing.

if it is not, just cut out the stud and reframe the opening. easy enough. with some precision, you will not even have to do any drywall.

 

[purbeast0]

do you need a door there?

can you just reframe the opening and get a 3 foot door?

is is a load bearing wall? if the wall is perpendicular to the floor joists, its probably load bearing, but if its parallel to the joists it is not load bearing.

if it is not, just cut out the stud and reframe the opening. easy enough. with some precision, you will not even have to do any drywall.

I do need a door there. This goes down to my home theater so it gets loud down there.

As for reframing it, that I don't know about. I have never done anything like that before. The door is in an odd spot as you will see from the pic below too.

I also just measured the rough opening width at various heights and it is as follows:

76" - 33"
56" - 33"
36" - 33"
6" - 32.75"

And that is kind of ball parking it because as you can see from the pic below, the jambs are still there. I didn't want to rip everything out until I know I can put in a larger door.

This is a split level house and this is going down to the lowest point in the house in the basement. Here's a pic of it.

I can snap more pics of stuff if it helps.

So I guess kinda going back to another question I mentioned - is using door jambs thinner than 3/4" a bad idea? Like using a 1/2" or even less than that? It may be a dumb question but I just don't know at all and don't really understand why using something thinner would necessarily not work.

 

[purbeast0]

Okay so I have another find now. I just took the top part of the trim off and then I notice that the 2x3 that the jamb is attached to, on the left and right sides, looks like it is a 2x4 that is attached to possibly a more structured frame. Like it looks like there is some piece of wood (guessing 2x3) that has been nailed or something to another piece of wood right behind it, but there is a gap at the top. So it seems like that piece of wood is not being used for structure reasons as far as holding something up.

Does that make sense? I don't know if I explained that good enough.

Here are some pics of what I am referring to. You can see that there is a gap between the top of the frame and something behind it. And it is that way on both sides of the door.

Left side:

Right side:

EDIT:

If you look at this pic below, where you see the doubled up studs where one is shorter (jack or trim stud I guess it is called) and meets with the header, that on mine there may be a 3rd 2x3 that is on the inside of the frame, but not running all the way up to the header.

Or is there a chance the jack/trim stud simply isn't running all the way to the header?

 

[herm0016]

oh.. its the door to the stairs. haha. take it out and put in a baby gate?

 

[purbeast0]

oh.. its the door to the stairs. haha. take it out and put in a baby gate?

I kind of already explained why I need a door there.

So I just took the jambs off completely and this is a pretty bootleg job. The top of the jamb wasn't even nailed in which I thought was not normal based on what I read.

Then the jack/trim studs on the L/R sides of the door aren't even 2x3's. They are like 1" x 2.25" or so.

But this is also where it is even odder.

On the left side it is about 1" thick.

Then on the right side, it is about 1.25" thick. However, it's like "shimmed" behind it to make it that width.

In the pic below you can see that there are 2 pieces of wood back to back. And then the "shim" in the back does not run the full height of the door. There are multiple "shims" behind it to keep it sticking out that distance.

Here is the top of the left, that is about 1" deep.

And then here is the top of the right side. You can see both pieces here, and then I took another one straight on so you can see the "shim" behind it.

So I guess I am wondering, is there any reason I can't rip these 1.5x3's or whatever they are, off of the studs they are attached to, and just put the jamb up against those studs instead? Is that just a structural thing where you don't want to do that?

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Almost looks to me like somebody put a narrower door in there at some time after initial construction. The coloring/shading is a dead giveaway.

If it were me, I might tear those 2x3s out and use 1x4s in their place if any fill is necessary. Use wedge shaped shims (prepackaged at HD) to true up the opening for the new, wider door.

 

[purbeast0]

Almost looks to me like somebody put a narrower door in there at some time after initial construction. The coloring/shading is a dead giveaway.

If it were me, I might tear those 2x3s out and use 1x4s in their place if any fill is necessary. Use wedge shaped shims (prepackaged at HD) to true up the opening for the new, wider door.

This is what I am not sure about - do I even need to have those 2x3's there?

And they aren't actual 2x3's because it's like 1"x2.5" on the left side, then the ghetto "shimmed" side is like 1.25"x2" (the 1.25" is the total width of the first piece + shim).

Since those "2x3"s on both sides clearly aren't bearing any load, as there is a big gap between the header there, do I even need them there?

 

[Greenman]

I kind of already explained why I need a door there.

So I just took the jambs off completely and this is a pretty bootleg job. The top of the jamb wasn't even nailed in which I thought was not normal based on what I read.

Then the jack/trim studs on the L/R sides of the door aren't even 2x3's. They are like 1" x 2.25" or so.

But this is also where it is even odder.

On the left side it is about 1" thick.

Then on the right side, it is about 1.25" thick. However, it's like "shimmed" behind it to make it that width.

In the pic below you can see that there are 2 pieces of wood back to back. And then the "shim" in the back does not run the full height of the door. There are multiple "shims" behind it to keep it sticking out that distance.

Here is the top of the left, that is about 1" deep.

And then here is the top of the right side. You can see both pieces here, and then I took another one straight on so you can see the "shim" behind it.

So I guess I am wondering, is there any reason I can't rip these 1.5x3's or whatever they are, off of the studs they are attached to, and just put the jamb up against those studs instead? Is that just a structural thing where you don't want to do that?

Tear em out, they aren't doing anything.

 

[purbeast0]

Tear em out, they aren't doing anything.

Okay are you sure?

I think that I can tear our just 1 of them on the right, and I will have enough space for the 32" door, and it will also mean the trim will look in the tight space.

I also just realized even more ghettoness, check this out...

The "header" isn't on top of the vertical studs. The "header" is attached to the sides of the vertical studs. Check out the pics below.

Left

Right

 

[Greenman]

Those pieces aren't doing anything as they don't reach the header. My hunch is that used to be a smaller door and someone ripped out the cripples to fit a larger door.

 

[purbeast0]

Those pieces aren't doing anything as they don't reach the header. My hunch is that used to be a smaller door and someone ripped out the cripples to fit a larger door.

I gotcha.

I think I'm going to rip out the one on the right side and that will give me a very nice fit for a 32" door I think.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[purbeast0]

That shit looks clean!

It's pretty much 34" exactly at all measurements I took now. So the right side with that ghetto shim is why it wasn't flush all the way down.

Going to hit up HD tomorrow and put in an order for a specialty prehung door to match the 3 9/16" jamb. It's going to be interesting how I put trim around the door though. The left side, as well as the insides, aren't going to be able to fit the "standard" trim. I'm guessing that may be part of the reason they put a smaller door in to make it look smoother or something.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

The left side of the pictre with the light switch ... how much is there between the open stud face and the wall? Looks like only an inch or so. I'd use a standard door but a custom trim piece there.

 

[purbeast0]

The left side of the pictre with the light switch ... how much is there between the open stud face and the wall? Looks like only an inch or so. I'd use a standard door but a custom trim piece there.

It's the angle there. The edge of the left frame there and the corner of the inner part of the wall is about 2"-3" or so if I had to guess.

If you look on this side of the frame, and where the corner on the left side on this side of the door frame is, that is the same as on the other side of the frame.

I think once the door jamb is in place, that I could use trim that is like 1.5" - 2" wide and it will look okay. Because the ~3/4" the jamb gives will add a little space.

 

[Micrornd]

And the distance from the handrail to the trim on the opposite side of the stairs is..?

 

[Greenman]

And the distance from the handrail to the trim on the opposite side of the stairs is..?

Doesn't really matter, the door doesn't swing over the stairs.