Question about Police Lidar Standard Deviations

[jlee]

It looks like you're talking about the OLD way people matched finger prints, which was by eye inspection. Sorry to burst your bubble but there is software out there that can read fingerprints and match them. The method used is a form of pattern recognition.

How exactly is this even remotely equivalent to measuring speed with a laser?

 

[Hacp]

I'm aware of that. The point here is that pattern recognition as evidence is the problem. Fingerprints really aren't as unique as believed.

The "ID points" used in these algorithms are actually rather arbitrary. It is why this really isn't evidence.

They would be arbitrary if using these points/shapes are as good as using any other.

Again, not sure why you would first present these flaws in police investigation as a pillar of your defense, then turn around and defend the very same techniques.

Again, this isn't the pillar of my defense but one piece of the whole puzzle.

 

[uclaLabrat]

This is actually not true. Let's say a police officer measures 100 cars going at exactly the speed limit and the measuring device had a 1% chance of showing a speed 10mph above the speed limit. In this case, the officer will end up ticketing a guy who was actually going AT the speed limit with an inaccurate reading. 100% of the drivers who are ticketed in this case are victims of the reading.

This is the same effect plaguing psychology. Over half of psychology papers are not reproducible even though their results are accurate at 95% confidence intervals.
http://www.nature.com/news/over-half-of-psychology-studies-fail-reproducibility-test-1.18248

I have yet to have someone assist with providing me this information. I did find a consumer grade device with some info. Assuming a normal distribution (the best I have to work with since they don't tell distribution!), there is a .03% chance on each reading that the measurement will be 12+ MPH greater than the actual speed of the car. To put it in other words, if I took 300 readings, most likely I will measure one guy going 12MPH faster than he actually was.

Speaking as a scientist, lawyers and judges as a rule don't know fuckall about statistics, science, or critical analysis. They're more about process. If the process is justly followed, the actual truth is less of a concern for them. So, you may be right, but they certainly will not care. See Dr. Pizza's comments above.

It's this type of thought process that led Justice Scalia to proclaim that a death penalty verdict, so rendered by following the process correctly, was justifiable even if it could be proven that the defendant was innocent. They don't care about the truth, they care about the process.

 

[Paladin3]

"If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" <--Try that, it's worked before. Who knows?

 

[boomhower]

It can very from state to state. In my state you are basically screwed. During the training of speed reading instruments the officer is required to visually estimate speeds that are then verified by the LIDAR/RADAR instrument. So Officer A testifies he observed your vehicle traveling 82 in a65MPH zone. Officer A activates LIDAR that shows you were running 80/65. Officer A followed required procedures for setting up the instrument and it was correctly calibrated prior to being used that day. In my state you really don't have a defense and attorneys won't even take the cases other than to get them reduced to lower speeds/improper equipment depending on the speed at hand. The courts have issued Judicial Notice on RADAR, not 100% sure on LIDAR. State law reads the Officer must for an opinion outside and apart from any mechanical device.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

"If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!" <--Try that, it's worked before. Who knows?

Or the Chewbacca defense

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4eCRMOBOqpU

 

[PJFrylar]

Or the Chenacca defense

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4eCRMOBOqpU

For some reason I read this as the Chewbacca defense and was wondering wtf you were on about.

Are you just an ATOT newb, or an internet newb in general?



Anyway, welcome and enjoy the forums. Don't touch the potato salad (Boomer made it)

Newish to the forum, been lurking awhile and not familiar with the OP, just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

No problem skipping the potato salad, I saw on my free iPod that someone brought some bulk beef.

 

[Fritzo]

For some reason I read this as the Chewbacca defense and was wondering wtf you were on about.

YEAH! The CHEWBACCA DEFENSE NEVER FAILS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwdba9C2G14

 

[Meghan54]

I don't have access to your car. I would suggest snapping some photos of at least 3 angles, glossy 8x11s, with blow up images of 3 detail regions on each shot. Be sure to include arrows and short paragraphs describing each figure and each detail blowup on the back of the photo.

You call them figure 1a-c; fig 2a-c; fig3a-c. each figure and subfigure needs its own caption on the back of the photos.

All you really need to do is present this evidence, and ask if the ticketing officer (if he or she shows), has similar or even identical photo evidence. That should only take 5 seconds of your time (you only need to go into the figure detail if the officer has their own tire evidence).

The thing is in the details: You show the judge your effort to provide factual evidence in defending your innocence, then they can't help but be swayed by your profound thirst for justice.

I can't believe you went full Alice's Restaurant. Love it!

 

[Captante]

YEAH! The CHEWBACCA DEFENSE NEVER FAILS!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwdba9C2G14

Hell its as (or perhaps more) likely to succeed then whatever the OP has in mind!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Any updates OP?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Any updates OP?

Perhaps the silence implies that the defense failed so catastrophically that OP was jailed for wasting the courts time.

 

[PottedMeat]

Perhaps the silence implies that the defense failed so catastrophically that OP was jailed for wasting the courts time.

whats the longest you can be tossed into jail for contempt? a day? a week? indefinitely?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

There has to be an update, six months for traffic court.
How did it go OP?

 

[Hacp]

Yes I do have an update. They ended up sending the mail notifying me of the court date to the wrong address so I missed the court date. On the postcard there was a checkbox for address change which I checked with the correct return address but they sent the mail to a previous address registered with the RMV. No way to argue since they don't keep a copy of the postcard.

 

[JoeBleed]

Yes I do have an update. They ended up sending the mail notifying me of the court date to the wrong address so I missed the court date. On the postcard there was a checkbox for address change which I checked with the correct return address but they sent the mail to a previous address registered with the RMV. No way to argue since they don't keep a copy of the postcard.

So they issued a bench warrant for failure to show up to your trial/court date? You just pay the ticket?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So they issued a bench warrant for failure to show up to your trial/court date? You just pay the ticket?

He's the one who contested it, there would be no bench warrant its just an auto lose.

 

[BrokenVisage]

Police Lidar System? Lie-dar? Hmmm very curious...

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Thanks. If you have further details please provide it.

I was clocked going 73mph on a 55mph speed limit. I was not looking at the speedometer at the time so I don't know my actual speed. I was following the car ahead of me and cars usually go at the speed limit on this piece of the highway since police are always there!

I try to keep below 65mph all the time for fuel efficiency reasons. In this section of the road I keep AT the speed limit so 55mph. 73 mph is far too high.

My strategy is simple. First I will establish that I am an excellent driver with no previous violations. Next I will establish that I had no inventive or motive to speed, there's actually a disincentive for speeding (gas mileage)!

I will then show evidence that I was averaging far below the speed limit based on the time I left work, average time it takes to go from my chair to my car, and time it takes for my car to leave work and arrive at the spot I was LIDAR'd. I will provide written evidence form my boss on the time I left work since he was there the exact moment I left my chair. I will use google maps to show how I was averaging below the speed limit.

Finally I will bring up the LIDAR confidence interval defense. Because I had no incentive to speed, because I am a safe drive, and because of the possibility of false positives in LIDAR, there is reasonable doubt that I was going above the speed limit.

I can see you haven't been to court much. What makes you think you'll be allowed to make all your arguments? Judges have a huge incentive to get through traffic cases as fast as possible. The very first time you make a point or, do it in a manner the judge doesn't like, your testimony is over and the judge will rule against you. Next!

 

[Capt Caveman]

Yes I do have an update. They ended up sending the mail notifying me of the court date to the wrong address so I missed the court date. On the postcard there was a checkbox for address change which I checked with the correct return address but they sent the mail to a previous address registered with the RMV. No way to argue since they don't keep a copy of the postcard.

Your own fault for not updating your address with the RMV when you moved.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes I do have an update. They ended up sending the mail notifying me of the court date to the wrong address so I missed the court date. On the postcard there was a checkbox for address change which I checked with the correct return address but they sent the mail to a previous address registered with the RMV. No way to argue since they don't keep a copy of the postcard.

So not only did you try to out-smartypants a system basically designed out of idiocracy, but you missed the court date (and didn't try to reach out to them when you suspiciously never received anything) so probably now have a bench warrant for arrest.

Well done good sir!

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Yes I do have an update. They ended up sending the mail notifying me of the court date to the wrong address so I missed the court date. On the postcard there was a checkbox for address change which I checked with the correct return address but they sent the mail to a previous address registered with the RMV. No way to argue since they don't keep a copy of the postcard.

Translation: You knew you were going to get your ass kicked if you spouted off your nonsense in court and punked out. We all saw that happening from the get go.

 

[OverVolt]

Make sure you have the right size tires for your car. Just one or two sizes off can be a 5-15% difference in speedo reading.

Be aware of cosine error, did you pass him parallel before you noticed? That will get you for the highest speed.

Were you accelerating when approaching?

I would imagine that he may have got an erroneous speed reading from a car behind you? Like a guy in the middle lane going to make a pass on the right and it looked to him like you were speeding? But he actually tagged the wrong car?

 

[JEDIYoda]

HACP has left the room...

 

[Red Squirrel]

lol that sucks. Should have just paid the ticket and save the trouble.