Question about linux distros and how they handle software installs

[straubs]

So I only have experience with Mandrake...but I'm very computer literate and even I couldn't handle and didn't choose to put the time & effort in figuring out ways to install new software. The RPM's, source files, blah blah blah. I don't want to run command lines and compile sh*t everytime I install something! Is this really how everyone has to do things on linux? It seemed to me like when you download something for linux, you get like 40 different file format options and everything is a long drawn out ordeal to get it installed.

Am I just missing something? Do other linux distro's handle this issue?

 

[Sunner]

Well, you have some basic facts right, but you've missed a bit as well.

RPM is the package system used by Mandrake as well as many other distros.
From the command line, you install a package by typing "rpm -i packaganame.rpm", not too hard eh?
Anyways, there are GUI's for handling that, KPackage comes with KDE, Gnorpm comes with Gnome, and Im sure Mandrake has their own tool as well.

And you might wanna check out Ximian's Red Carpet.

If you're somewhat computer literate, you should be able to read manuals, and search the net, Im not a Mandrake user, but considdering how easy everyone seems to think it is, I doubt they hide that information away too hard.

 

[straubs]

So you're suggesting "RTFM"?

I understand that RPM's were created to make this easier. Are these well supported? By that I mean, do most linux software programmers make their software availible in RPM format? I always see source code for download, and that's not anything I want to deal with. Laziness, I guess...

 

[manly]

Nah, it's not lazy to not want to deal with source tarballs. I personally think it's absurd for most users to deal with them, but that's just my opinion.

RPMs are the de facto standard Linux package format. Unfortunately, while RPM itself is standard, the Linux distributions that use RPM can vary. What this means is that an RPM designed to work well on Red Hat Linux may not work as well on Mandrake or SuSE.

However, in 9 cases out of 10, it'll be fine. For the tenth case, you often can download a source RPM that is easy to build to produce a binary RPM (that you can then install).

Like Sunner said, there are GUI tools for RPM package management but after a little practice, you'll find the command-line rpm just as convenient. You'll find that most 3rd party software for Linux is available in RPM format.

 

[mgpaulus]

Or, you can get into a distro that handles all this for you.... Check out debian. With a few commands you can view the entire universe of software available for debian users (And it's quite extensive), figure out which one you want to install, download and install it.

Most packages come configured for the average user, so no compiling and/or configuring is required....

For instance, not too long ago I wanted to install a caching name server. Just did a command 'apt-get install bind', and that was it.
apt-get brought down the bind server, installed it, and made sure the appropriate /etc/init/rc?.d entries were created, and any
required configuration files in /etc/xxxxxx. The hardest part was creating my local domain records so my private network
also has name resolution....

If you don't happen to know which package you need, you can use dselect, which is a curses based program that shows you
the entire catalog of packages available, and allows you to search for things, see synopsis of packages, etc, etc.

The other nice thing is you can build your own packages (kernel packages are a very nice feature). You build a kernel-package,
and install it just like a normal debian package (say 2.2.19-mypatches). Then when debian releases a newer kernel with your
features already built in (like 2.2.20 with Promise ATA-100/133 drivers), you can just do an 'apt-get install kernel-image-2.2.20),
and it will bring down the new kernel, move your kernel to old, update lilo, and set everything up for you.....

If you want sophisticated package management and accurate dependency checks, then debian is for you.
Debian homepage

 

[n0cmonkey]

rpmfind.net has a bunch of links to rpms or something.

 

[Derango]

If this guy doesn't take the time to figure out how to install software on mandrake, do you think he's going to take the time to figure out how to configure debian (which doesn't set up very much for you during the install)?

 

[straubs]

Originally posted by: Derango
If this guy doesn't take the time to figure out how to install software on mandrake, do you think he's going to take the time to figure out how to configure debian (which doesn't set up very much for you during the install)?

That's true. Configuration options are nice to have, but can be entirely too overwhelming.

 

[Abzstrak]

I've also been enjoying Gentoo's emerge app coming from the rpm world..... if I want KDE installed and configured and want it to install all dependencies and all updates and everything... I have to type "emerge kde"... thats it, and it downloads it and compiles it for my system, installs it, and everything... it rocks.

for small programs I couldn't care either way, but for things like KDE, or gnome, or evolution its a life saver.

 

[Sunner]

If you don't want to get your hands dirty, I'd definately check out Red Carpet from Ximian.
See my earlier post for a link.

 

[SUOrangeman]

http://www.distrowatch.com/

I recommend installing every distro known to mankind for your research. We'll anxiously await your results within the next 48 hours.

-SUO

 

[drag]

The reason that a lot of apps are in source code tarball and not in "easy to use" formats like rpm is because of the vast numbers of different flavors of Linux. It's very hard for developers that operate on shoestring budgets to go out there and offer packages for every possible user or even the most common distros. Especially with most apps are constantly being upgraded and refined it's not in a programmers best intrest to spend time on making sure that they support packages (other than tarballs). With tarballs a developer can potentially provide their software to the largest user base possible. Not just Mandrake, Debian, or Redhat, but to all linux users (slackware, gentoo, yellowdog custom or heavily modified linux versions) and different Unix flavors (qnx, Opnebsd, Freebsd, Netbsd, Solarias, Mac OS X (darwin) etc. etc.)(and sometimes win32 versions, too).

Thats why most people depend on distros for their software. Because it's the distro's job to keep up with the latest and greatest apps and make it easy for users. If you want certian peice of software maybe you should check out your distro's website and see if they have a packaged version. It may not be the latest version, but trying to keep on the bleeding edge is very difficult thing to do and at least you can trust that it will probably work and i it doesn;t you can always seek tech support. (thats why when you find some distro you enjoy using it would be a good idea to actually pay for it.)

Also remember that with the various Open Source licsences you have to provide the source code anyways, so you can always trust the fact that you can find a tarball to use if it's "free" software.

 

[phrawd]

I think that if you're going to run linux you probably have dealt with windows and for one reason or another are delving into the world of open source software to realize its benefits. You most likely believe that linux is complicated and is going to take some getting used to before you convert your OS. For that reason, why short change yourself in learning the basic gui distros like Mandrake? Go hardcore (my pref is slackware ) and learn what's going on -- learn what is going on under the hood. Almost every piece of software on my box was compiled from source and it really isn't that hard... sure, sometimes things go wrong but that's how you learn and that's what linux is great for. Linux is usually trailing behind in official support for new hardware features (as one example USB 2.0) by an update or two but if there is any support for it, it's going to be in CVS or unstable kernels but will get the job done. There usually aren't CVS binary rpms available as readily as source (in my experience). I would definitely recommend a newbie with some time on his/her hands to go face first into ./configure make make install so he/she can see what's up. It may be an esoteric view of linux as the "it's too difficult/good for newbies" perspective but I think that if you're going to make the sacrifice of time and energy to switch to a foreign desktop environment, you may as well get the most out of it.

Regards,

Marshall

 

[straubs]

Thanks for the perspective, phrawd and drag.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: phrawd
I think that if you're going to run linux you probably have dealt with windows and for one reason or another are delving into the world of open source software to realize its benefits. You most likely believe that linux is complicated and is going to take some getting used to before you convert your OS.

I like that statement. If you dont mind, you may be quoted in the future "Which distro?" FAQ.