Question about driving stick (manual transmission).

[Lithium381]

Originally posted by: dethman

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Don't put your car in neutral at all. Push down on the clutch and shift into first. Keep your foot down, then release while giving gas. Being in neutral makes you a sitting duck. If something comes at you, it will take longer to get out of it's way.

i just put it in neutral and coast to a stop.

i could've sworn you're never supposed to downshift into first.

i never shift into first wihle moving, yet i'm guilty of using neutral alot, when coasting to a stop, though i dont' rest my foot on the clutch.

BTW - what's power shifting?

 

[TheNemesis]

Yeah the safety thing is quite retarded if you're using it to slow down, maybe not if you're using it to speed out of a difficult situation. Either way, I coast in neutral quite often. Saves wear on the clutch and I'd imagine that you get better gas mileage. I would rather use my brakes to stop then use my engine/transmission. Brakes are meant to stop you, and meant to wear out. They are MUCH easier and cheaper to replace than your clutch, transmission or engine. Not saying that using your engine to stop is going to make it blow up, but how can that be good for it? I'll use my brakes!

 

[KenGr]

Keep the car in gear. To control your car you can turn, brake and accelerate. Why limit yourself to two of the options in an emergency? Also, using engine braking saves wear and heatup of the brakes and makes you seem like you know what you're doing. Modern clutches have a tremendous life if used correctly. Unless you drag race or actually ride the clutch you should get well over 100K out a disk - More like 200K if you don't live in a congested urban area.

50 years ago it was recommended to shift to neutral at stop lights to minimize throwout bearing wear. Modern bearings are so much better it's not an issue. You can screw one up if you ride the clutch all the time though. When shifting it's best to push the clutch all the way to the floor. You can get some unnecessary synchro wear even if it feels completely disengaged. This is especially true with some hydraulic clutches which seem to disengage slowly (damn near impossible to power shift those suckers).

Originally, cars with three speed transmissions had no synchro on 1st gear while 4 speeds did since synchros are easy to design in on pairs of gears. In the 60's some cars started coming out with synchro 1st gear on 3 speeds. I think all the 5 speeds have 1st gear synchro but it always seems to me it's less effective on the bottom gear.

 

[KokomoGST]

Gr1l0ck, like others have said before, it's ok to have the clutch pedal depressed a tad in neutral.
I have to second the recommendation to learn how to properly "slip" your clutch into gear instead of popping it in like Woody stated. Owning a car with a ACT 2600 (pretty heavy clutch), I like to stay off the clutch as much as possible even though playing with the clutch is fun (heel-toe downshifting is mondo fun if you get good at it).

One trick for hills is to use the ol' ebrake to make sure you don't roll back while you're getting going. Just remember ta disengage the ebrake 😉

Engine braking is indeed bad for your tranny putting extra wear and tear on your synchros if you don't know how to rev-match properly. Rev-matching kinda detracts a tad from engine braking anywho... most people I know that engine brake just slam it into the lower gear... badbadbad.

What I do when braking to a possible stop is to brake in the gear I'm currently in until the revs are around 1000-1500 rpm. I proceed to just pop it into neutral and come to a stop.

powershifting

Thats basically slamming the gearbox into the next gear without the clutch... it sounds brutal because it is. It's not impossible at the proper revs... I've done it on a rental and my beater in anger once.

Speed shifting is when you don't lift your foot off the gas when shifting... some people mistake power shifting for speed shifting. Also, granny shifting is what you normally do... foot off gas, release clutch, foot back on gas.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK
Note: This thread is not here to prove your masculinity because you know how to drive stick or how its so much better than an automatic.

That was funny... sort of like a disclaimer... 🙂

 

[Lithium381]

Originally posted by: KokomoGST
Gr1l0ck, like others have said before, it's ok to have the clutch pedal depressed a tad in neutral.
I have to second the recommendation to learn how to properly "slip" your clutch into gear instead of popping it in like Woody stated. Owning a car with a ACT 2600 (pretty heavy clutch), I like to stay off the clutch as much as possible even though playing with the clutch is fun (heel-toe downshifting is mondo fun if you get good at it).

One trick for hills is to use the ol' ebrake to make sure you don't roll back while you're getting going. Just remember ta disengage the ebrake 😉

Engine braking is indeed bad for your tranny putting extra wear and tear on your synchros if you don't know how to rev-match properly. Rev-matching kinda detracts a tad from engine braking anywho... most people I know that engine brake just slam it into the lower gear... badbadbad.

What I do when braking to a possible stop is to brake in the gear I'm currently in until the revs are around 1000-1500 rpm. I proceed to just pop it into neutral and come to a stop.

powershifting

Thats basically slamming the gearbox into the next gear without the clutch... it sounds brutal because it is. It's not impossible at the proper revs... I've done it on a rental and my beater in anger once.

Speed shifting is when you don't lift your foot off the gas when shifting... some people mistake power shifting for speed shifting. Also, granny shifting is what you normally do... foot off gas, release clutch, foot back on gas.

explain that, shifting without using the clutch

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Lithium381

Originally posted by: KokomoGST
Gr1l0ck, like others have said before, it's ok to have the clutch pedal depressed a tad in neutral.
I have to second the recommendation to learn how to properly "slip" your clutch into gear instead of popping it in like Woody stated. Owning a car with a ACT 2600 (pretty heavy clutch), I like to stay off the clutch as much as possible even though playing with the clutch is fun (heel-toe downshifting is mondo fun if you get good at it).

One trick for hills is to use the ol' ebrake to make sure you don't roll back while you're getting going. Just remember ta disengage the ebrake 😉

Engine braking is indeed bad for your tranny putting extra wear and tear on your synchros if you don't know how to rev-match properly. Rev-matching kinda detracts a tad from engine braking anywho... most people I know that engine brake just slam it into the lower gear... badbadbad.

What I do when braking to a possible stop is to brake in the gear I'm currently in until the revs are around 1000-1500 rpm. I proceed to just pop it into neutral and come to a stop.

powershifting

Thats basically slamming the gearbox into the next gear without the clutch... it sounds brutal because it is. It's not impossible at the proper revs... I've done it on a rental and my beater in anger once.

Speed shifting is when you don't lift your foot off the gas when shifting... some people mistake power shifting for speed shifting. Also, granny shifting is what you normally do... foot off gas, release clutch, foot back on gas.

explain that, shifting without using the clutch

"Brutally Raping Your Engine" :Q

Explained enough?

- M4H

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Lithium381

Originally posted by: KokomoGST
Gr1l0ck, like others have said before, it's ok to have the clutch pedal depressed a tad in neutral.
I have to second the recommendation to learn how to properly "slip" your clutch into gear instead of popping it in like Woody stated. Owning a car with a ACT 2600 (pretty heavy clutch), I like to stay off the clutch as much as possible even though playing with the clutch is fun (heel-toe downshifting is mondo fun if you get good at it).

One trick for hills is to use the ol' ebrake to make sure you don't roll back while you're getting going. Just remember ta disengage the ebrake 😉

Engine braking is indeed bad for your tranny putting extra wear and tear on your synchros if you don't know how to rev-match properly. Rev-matching kinda detracts a tad from engine braking anywho... most people I know that engine brake just slam it into the lower gear... badbadbad.

What I do when braking to a possible stop is to brake in the gear I'm currently in until the revs are around 1000-1500 rpm. I proceed to just pop it into neutral and come to a stop.

powershifting

Thats basically slamming the gearbox into the next gear without the clutch... it sounds brutal because it is. It's not impossible at the proper revs... I've done it on a rental and my beater in anger once.

Speed shifting is when you don't lift your foot off the gas when shifting... some people mistake power shifting for speed shifting. Also, granny shifting is what you normally do... foot off gas, release clutch, foot back on gas.

explain that, shifting without using the clutch

"Brutally Raping Your Engine" :Q

Explained enough?

- M4H

More like brutally raping your transmission.. It isn't going to hurt your engine much. Although, with habbits like that.. I doubt your car, in general, is going to last long. 😛

 

[KenGr]

Clutchless Shifting: Actually not as bad as it sounds if you know what you are doing (at least for upshifts). All you have to do is push it out of one gear and put pressure on it as the revs drop and it will slip right into the next gear. All the stick shifts I've owned would shift smoothly without the clutch, it just required too much attention to make a habit of it. Motorcycles with constant mesh transmissions shift both up and down easily without use of the clutch.

If you ever owned an older car with an overdrive transmission (planetary gearset) you may be aware that there is no technical reason to use the clutch on those cars for upshifts. Since the planetary set is freewheeling, when you let off the gas, it disconnects the rear drive so it acts like an automatic clutch. The only downside to those cars was increased brake wear since there is no engine braking.

 

Gr1l0ck, like others have said before, it's ok to have the clutch pedal depressed a tad in neutral.

Incorrect sir.

When you depress the clutch pedal you are engaging the throw out bearing, this bearing exerts tremendous pressure on the fingers of the clutch to disengage it. (Average clutch pressure is 1,700 lbs).
If you rest your foot on the clutch pedal, you will prematurely wear the bearing out, this also goes for holding your foot on the cltch while waiting at a stop light.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Roger

Gr1l0ck, like others have said before, it's ok to have the clutch pedal depressed a tad in neutral.

Incorrect sir.

When you depress the clutch pedal you are engaging the throw out bearing, this bearing exerts tremendous pressure on the fingers of the clutch to disengage it. (Average clutch pressure is 1,700 lbs).
If you rest your foot on the clutch pedal, you will prematurely wear the bearing out, this also goes for holding your foot on the cltch while waiting at a stop light.

No one has ever broken something in their car by leaving their foot a bit on the clutch in neutral.. I don't see the big deal.

 

No one has ever broken something in their car by leaving their foot a bit on the clutch in neutral.. I don't see the big deal.

Really ?

Where are you getting your information from ?

I have seen many customers come into my shop with squealing throw out bearings because they rested thier foot on the clutch pedal all the time.

Care to show me some proof of your statement ?

Are you a Certified Automotive Tech ?
Do you repair vehicles for a living ?

 

Why you should not rest your foot on the clutch

Link 2

Resting your foot on the clutch will keep the throw out bearing engaged, this bearing has two main parts, a stationary part that rides on the nose of the input shaft on the tranny, the other part is supported by roller bearings, this part comes into contact with the release fingers of the clutch which are rotating with the engine.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Roger

Gr1l0ck, like others have said before, it's ok to have the clutch pedal depressed a tad in neutral.

Incorrect sir.

When you depress the clutch pedal you are engaging the throw out bearing, this bearing exerts tremendous pressure on the fingers of the clutch to disengage it. (Average clutch pressure is 1,700 lbs).
If you rest your foot on the clutch pedal, you will prematurely wear the bearing out, this also goes for holding your foot on the cltch while waiting at a stop light.

Finally someone mentioned the throw out bearing. I just saw this thread and tracked all the way thru it and couldn't believe no one mentioned it until finally Roger did. The biggest reason NOT to ride the clutch is because of the throw out bearing, and it doesn't matter whether the car is in gear or not or not moving or not to effect that. Simply put, one should never ride the clutch under any circumstances.
BTW, a bad throw out bearing is UGLY. The clutch has trouble both engaging (making it difficult to shift) and it slips, and the whole thing makes this terrible, terrible whine...

 

Resting your foot on the clutch pedal will also wear out the fingers on the pressure plate prematurely.

 

[incallisto]

Well... I never ride the clutch, but I do put it in neutral to coast into my neighborhood. My car generates 119dB from 50ft. away when I don't. 😉 Heeh

EDIT: I forgot to mention the "dead pedal". I always rest my foot on the dead pedal (it's better than the floor because it let's you "feel" exactly where you foot is in relationship to the clutch pedal. If you find yourself constantly resting your foot on the clutch or missing the clutch, this is a great way to avoid this. 😉

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Oh that VACC site they said that a worn clutch will cause a grinding sound... I think I hear a grinding sound at parking lot speed with the clutch out.. Doh!

 

What year/make and model vehicle do you have Jello ?

 

[NeoSolo]

I have question about manual also.
When I park the car, should I put it in 1st/2nd gear?
I usually just leave it in the N. and use parking break.

 

Leave the vehicle parked in first gear, this way if the parking brake should fail, the engine will hold the vehicle from moving. (Assuming you are not parked on a very steep grade)

I usually just leave it in the N. and use parking break

Is that like a cofee break ? 😉

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Roger
Leave the vehicle parked in first gear, this way if the parking brake should fail, the engine will hold the vehicle from moving. (Assuming you are not parked on a very steep grade)

I usually just leave it in the N. and use parking break

Is that like a cofee break ? 😉

I do that (in gear), but here is what i do: If it's flat OR the car is on an angle with the front higher than the rear I leave it in first. If the rear is higher than the front I leave it in reverse. My thoughts are that if the handbrake dissapeared the car's movement would be going against the gear.

Is that fantasy land or would that legitimately work?

 

Depends on the gear ratio's in your tranny Skoorb, by the way, thanks, the package brightened up my life 😉🙂

 

[Jzero]

My rule of thumb is this:
Always take your foot completely off of the clutch and put it on the floor.

Even if you think you're not putting any pressure on the clutch, you might be.


As for putting it in neutral or stepping on the clutch when at a stop, from the research I've done, it seems like a wash. You wear the throwout bearing faster if you leave your foot on the clutch, but shifting to neutral and back still involves two complete travels of the clutch, which wears it anyway. Since you would usually replace the throwout bearing whenever you replace the clutch, unless you're the type who doesn't do preventive maintenance, it shouldn't make much difference either way.

Pick which part of the clutch you're going to wear. I do whatever I feel like. If it's a long light, I'll sit in neutral, otherwise, I'll just clutch it.

 

As for putting it in neutral or stepping on the clutch when at a stop, from the research I've done, it seems like a wash. You wear the throwout bearing faster if you leave your foot on the clutch, but shifting to neutral and back still involves two complete travels of the clutch, which wears it anyway. Since you would usually replace the throwout bearing whenever you replace the clutch, unless you're the type who doesn't do preventive maintenance, it shouldn't make much difference either way.

Pick which part of the clutch you're going to wear. I do whatever I feel like. If it's a long light, I'll sit in neutral, otherwise, I'll just clutch it.

Releasing then reengaging the clutch at a stop light will result in less wear Jzero, why ?

Pressure
As I stated before, to compress the clutch diaphram requires tremendous pressure, holding the clutch down while sationary will result in increased wear to the throw out bearing.
Your statement about wearing the actual clutch itself is an incorrect assumption because you are not putting a load on the clutch friction surfaces.


For those people who don't understand how clutches operate, Please read

 

[KokomoGST]

Well, some cars I've driven have a dead spot in the clutch. Similar to a dead spot on your accelerator...
Also, by the time most higher quality OE throwout bearings wear out... the friction surface and flywheel are prolly due for a replacement resurfacing anyways. I have seen clutch cables break as well.

You can call me a hypocrite because I keep my foot on the clutch as briefly as possible.
One possible reason to not leave your foot on the clutch while braking... taking power away from the drive wheels or reengaging the clutch would upset the drive wheels would cause your car to do funky things at the limits of adhesion. But that's racing... not real life I hope...