Question About DIY Backup Camera Location

[BonzaiDuck]

As I said in another ongoing thread, I'm about ready to select a Wi-Fi (not "wireless" but "Wi-Fi") backup camera for my Trooper. The distinction between Wi-Fi and wireless, suggested by the descriptions of products available, is the proprietary nature of wireless hardware that comes bundled with a monitor in additiion to a camera. Wi-Fi cameras are designed to work with an I-phone, I-pad or Android device, so you only get the camera with its ground and power wire, using a downloadable Apple Store or Google Play Store app provided by the camera-maker.

The Wi-Fi selections, in terms of size and shape, also fit two or three categories like the wireless-with-monitor kits: Some just look like a simple bow-tie which has bolt holes at either end to fit the bolts for your license plate. But my license plate is decidedly mounted on the right-hand side of the rear door panels, therefore the camera would not be centered. Others give you the same camera design, but the bow-tie is extended as part of an entire license-plate frame (which could probably be cut if you wanted to mount the camera portion elsewhere, although the frame might serve as antenna, so best to investigate before one starts sawing away).

Some of the cameras are rectangular boxes mounted on a bracket which can swivel. At least a couple of the bow-tie cameras or license-plate cams allow the camera to swivel. Some of the cameras have a little antenna as you might find on a hand-held walkie-talkie, so one would wonder if they swivel to a horizontal position to make mounting easier.

Now all of these cameras boast of being "IP67" to "IP69" compliant in terms of their being waterproof, and the promotional material always assumes the camera will be mounted on the vehicle's exterior.

So what's the problem with mounting the camera on the interior side of your rear windshield? It could be sealed against the windshield to prevent moisture fogging up either the camera lens or the windshield. Of course, in a driving rain, water will distort any images coming through the rear window, but you could also get water droplets splashed up on the camera lens that is externally mounted.

Any experience with this? Any thoughts? If I want to put the camera well above the road, then I'd need to use the interior mounting approach, or, I'd need to glue it on the upper rear-window's exterior edge, using Flex-Seal or whatever they use to reinstall and repair rear windows. But then, I'll need to route the wire to the rear door and find a place where it will pass through the door's rubber seal to the car's exterior. To keep the camera centered, I could also mount it above the bumper and below the door. But I prefer having a higher angle of view from the camera. My spare tire is a near-permanent fixture on the main rear door of the SUV, so there's no "in-between" option unless I want to cut a hole in my vinyl tire cover and mount the camera at the center location of the tire mount. And "No Way!" on that option.

 

[skyking]

as long as it is very close you will not have a reflection problem. I prefer having it easily cleanable, so I would make it so I could remove it and clean both the lens and inside glass.
Cameras generate heat; it may be enough to prevent fog if the cam is left powered.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

as long as it is very close you will not have a reflection problem. I prefer having it easily cleanable, so I would make it so I could remove it and clean both the lens and inside glass.
Cameras generate heat; it may be enough to prevent fog if the cam is left powered.

I thought of that -- a dusty film on the exterior window on a very sunny day with light at the wrong angle. Where some backup cams also have a little metal adjustable sunshade, and those installed at the license plate also have an overhanging shade above the license plate, you can't provide shade for light being reflected from a thousand dust particles.

 

[skyking]

the gap between the glass and camera s the problem. I have used WiFi cams in the back window of an RV, and the gap has to be minimal.

 

[Midwayman]

Where you want it is going to be partially a product of the FOV of the camera you are installing. You want the lower edge to include your bumper and the upper edge high enough to see cross traffic behind you.

Inside I want a shade shroud around it to seal it to light reflecting off the interior. Exterior you might worry about glare and dirt. If its a problem you could probably make something out of polystyrene and double sided tape. It doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem. Just all the mounting is doing to be a bit more DIY. If you have a 3d printer, or know how to use cad getting those parts done cheap it pretty easy for a professional look.

 

[jlee]

Where you want it is going to be partially a product of the FOV of the camera you are installing. You want the lower edge to include your bumper and the upper edge high enough to see cross traffic behind you.

Inside I want a shade shroud around it to seal it to light reflecting off the interior. Exterior you might worry about glare and dirt. If its a problem you could probably make something out of polystyrene and double sided tape. It doesn't seem like an insurmountable problem. Just all the mounting is doing to be a bit more DIY. If you have a 3d printer, or know how to use cad getting those parts done cheap it pretty easy for a professional look.

Yep. Mounting it inside will give you a clear view directly back, but it's not likely going to give you the bumper edge / immediate vicinity behind / below that you'll want to see.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Yep. Mounting it inside will give you a clear view directly back, but it's not likely going to give you the bumper edge / immediate vicinity behind / below that you'll want to see.

I can see the point of this. I tentatively prefer a high mounting, as you would see with examples using these types of cameras for RVs, to watch boat hitches from the rear of a truck or from an RV -- certainly a towed item from an SUV or behind the towed item.

I could mount a cam just above the bumper to clear the bottom of the door. Not sure I like that so much, for the angle and because the cam might be vulnerable to being kicked or damaged somehow -- the rear cargo door is a busy zone.

Incidentally, I should post this on another current thread from someone asking for a dash-cam recommendation:

THINKWARE dash-cam/backup cam Wi-Fi-enabled kit for I-phone/I-pad or Android devices - both dash-cam and backup-cam recording. Including Dash and rear camera. Rear camera can be purchased separately; downloadable software works with the full kit or just a single cam.

I've looked at a dozen of these devices, weeding out those that have feature inconveniences for me. Then I looked at customer reviews. I finally spotted this THINKWARE product-line at B&H Photo. B&H, as a rule, attempts to sell quality merchandise, or that's just my perception. It's got Night-vision; it works with IP/Wi-Fi, probably establishing its own server and access point for a receiver device, like my Android Tablet.

It looks like higher quality than "LeeKooLuu" or "LASTBUS" or any of the others. I'm almost ready to pull the chain on the checkout button. Need to examine more closely, but I'm leaning that way . . .

 

[Scarpozzi]

Personally, I wouldn't invest in a backup camera aftermarket. FWIW.

What I would want is the thing to not be powered, unless the vehicle was in reverse. I'd be afraid of battery draw otherwise. Perhaps you could power it off the reverse lights?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Personally, I wouldn't invest in a backup camera aftermarket. FWIW.

What I would want is the thing to not be powered, unless the vehicle was in reverse. I'd be afraid of battery draw otherwise. Perhaps you could power it off the reverse lights?

The Rohent backup camera I bought has a 12V current draw in milli-amps. As I mentioned in the thread I started about mounting the camera and my ongoing project to merge an Android 7-inch tablet into my center dashboard (and in a post I made today), the power and ground wires for the camera must be 20 or 22-guage.

I'm going to power the camera through the ACC/accessory fuse-plate, in addition to controlling it with a rocker switch on the dashboard. That way, it won't matter if I forget and leave it switched on, because it will power down when I turn off the ignition switch as I park the car.

The customer reviews for the Rohent are encouraging. Most of these devices now are made in China, so there would likely be a wide variation in quality across a range of products. But some of the Chinese products are very good. I'm very impressed with my MP3 player-FM-transmitter-Bluetooth device: I can count on it to work properly in several different respects whenever I power it up.

Some of the Rohent reviewers showed confidence that you could use the backup camera all the time, in contrast to connecting it to your reversing light. I think those owners were driving trucks and farm equipment. And there could be inconveniences or difficulties with having it go on and off with the reversing light: it has to re-establish the wi-fi connection with the phone or tablet used to view the camera's image.

Even so, I didn't see complaints from reviewers who did it that way. I've tested it with the cigar-lighter wiring as supplied in the box, and it seems to be great. You can turn the guidelines on and off by touching an icon on the Android. Anyway, I'll continue on the other thread about this as I make progress. The worst trouble I see at this point is finding a side-marker/parking light's power lead so that one of the rocker switch's LEDs turns on from the light combination switch on the steering column. I may just run a thin yellow wire to the tail-light relay and tap into the relay with a fuse-tap.

 

[Scarpozzi]

The Rohent backup camera I bought has a 12V current draw in milli-amps. As I mentioned in the thread I started about mounting the camera and my ongoing project to merge an Android 7-inch tablet into my center dashboard (and in a post I made today), the power and ground wires for the camera must be 20 or 22-guage.

I'm going to power the camera through the ACC/accessory fuse-plate, in addition to controlling it with a rocker switch on the dashboard. That way, it won't matter if I forget and leave it switched on, because it will power down when I turn off the ignition switch as I park the car.

The customer reviews for the Rohent are encouraging. Most of these devices now are made in China, so there would likely be a wide variation in quality across a range of products. But some of the Chinese products are very good. I'm very impressed with my MP3 player-FM-transmitter-Bluetooth device: I can count on it to work properly in several different respects whenever I power it up.

Some of the Rohent reviewers showed confidence that you could use the backup camera all the time, in contrast to connecting it to your reversing light. I think those owners were driving trucks and farm equipment. And there could be inconveniences or difficulties with having it go on and off with the reversing light: it has to re-establish the wi-fi connection with the phone or tablet used to view the camera's image.

Even so, I didn't see complaints from reviewers who did it that way. I've tested it with the cigar-lighter wiring as supplied in the box, and it seems to be great. You can turn the guidelines on and off by touching an icon on the Android. Anyway, I'll continue on the other thread about this as I make progress. The worst trouble I see at this point is finding a side-marker/parking light's power lead so that one of the rocker switch's LEDs turns on from the light combination switch on the steering column. I may just run a thin yellow wire to the tail-light relay and tap into the relay with a fuse-tap.

I was just sharing my opinion that cheap electronics being hacked into the wiring harness can cause problems. I had an aftermarket brake controller on my truck have most of its splices get dirty and eventually there was an open circuit. This was installed years ago, so I was in tight quarters recently trying to shorten and resplice all the potentially bad connections. Had it been wired into the harness by the factory, it would have been properly terminated and more weather-proof. A backup camera has potential for being better protected, but I suppose I value a mirror about as much as I would a camera.

 

[Midwayman]

Personally, I wouldn't invest in a backup camera aftermarket. FWIW.

What I would want is the thing to not be powered, unless the vehicle was in reverse. I'd be afraid of battery draw otherwise. Perhaps you could power it off the reverse lights?

Supposedly it varies by what type of camera you have. IIRC CMOS you want to wire to be on while the car is on since they don't do well cold and are better off if kept warm. Other types you can wire off the reverse lights. Easy enough to find the right type of wiring.

 

[skyking]

Mine is wired up with the reverse lights, along with the trigger wire to the receiver. no vampire draw and works as quickly as anything I have seen, no appreciable lag.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Scarpozzi: Yes -- we have the same concerns. These are actually ongoing worries of mine, because I swapped out all the incandescent / filament light-bulbs for LEDs with Parking, Cornering or Side-Marker, Backup, Signal/Hazard and Brake-light/tail-lights. The ECM apparently keeps tab on resistance in these circuits, or otherwise -- the fuse will blow when too many LED lights enter the equation. At least a couple of lights on those parallel circuits must have the required resistance, and then nothing bad happens. In my case, it is the lonely lowly license-plate incandescent bulb which currently avoids blowing the fuse when the comb-light switch for these Parking/Side-marker lights are on. I also had problems when the Trooper was in "Park" when the brake was depressed and the signal/hazard lights were working. They would cause the Shift Lock Solenoid under the center console near the shift lever to click in unison with the signal/hazard flashing frequency.

So I replaced the #1157 LEDs with original incandescent 1157's for the stop-light/tail-light. And as I said, I left the incandescent bulb for the license-plate light alone. We (my friend in Virginia) are of the opinion that when the license light burns out, the fuse may blow. So I may replace another set of LEDs with the original #1156 incandescent (single-filament) bulbs.

There are simple and elegant ways to use what's available on the wiring harness for accessories added to these old cars. For instance, my 1995 Trooper isn't equipped with fog-lights, but they were a dealer option, and the wiring was all ready and integrated into the harness just waiting for fogs to be plugged in. Even the fog-light fuse was pre-installed. But I have no fog-light relay, and so the relay socket is vacant. This enabled me to add my own foglights and use a fuse-tap to run the aftermarket lights off the fog-light battery link and fuse already provided.

The backup camera is purely an extra, and this is the reason I didn't pick a kit with a mirror-shaped LCD screen that hangs on the OEM mirror. So I keep the regular mirror, and I have the rear-view real-time image appearing on the dashboard Android.

To answer Midwayman and Skyking, Yes -- I was concerned that frequent power-cycles on the camera would evidence troubles re-establishing the wi-fi link to the Android, but nobody in the reviews I'd read for this camera (as I remember) reported a problem using the reverse-light circuit to power the camera. Others chose tapping into the comb-light-switch selection of the parking/side-marker/tail-light. But we decided against this for adding another device to the potential problem of too many LEDs.

I just figured it this way. The LED indicator for the driver to "find" the camera switch can just as well stay on when the car is running during daylight hours. So I tapped the spare LED pin on the 5-pin rocker switch to the same ACC/accessory source as the camera itself. It all works great, as far as I can tell so far.

There are occasional frame dropouts in the video feed. It is momentary -- in a blink of an eye. Other users of the camera also reported it, even as they appeared to diminish its importance as a flaw or shortcoming. And it seems to happen when I've got "Maps", "Music-Play" and the camera software all running on the Android simultaneously.

It COULD be the new antenna extension, and perhaps I should try the stock exterior antenna. But the worst thing I notice so far is (a) the Android needs a sun-shade, and (b) there must be a way to "zoom" the camera view in the software -- which I will at least explore -- because cars behind me in the camera view seem further away from the Trooper's rear, compared to the regular OEM mirror view.

I'm thinking the dropouts could even result from the antenna orientation. But as I say here and reviewers of the camera say as well, the occasional frame-drop is an occasional and inconsequential phenomenon. You never lose the camera view when it happens, and it's momentary.

ADDENDUM: I've perhaps spawned more than enough threads on these and related issues, but whenever I have a question, a new thread seems like the right idea for it. But the Android tablet, the camera, the MP3 player with USB Android charging, the fuse-box extension -- these are all integrated with the Android emerging as a second and auxiliary "brain" for the 25-year-old Trooper.

The worst setback so far was damage to some mounting points for the "luggage lower trim panel", which I had to remove to do the wiring for the camera. You can't just jam the panel back into place and expect the fasteners to go into their mounts. The panel and the fasteners are 25-year-old plastic. While I was able to re-install the panel, I have plans to fix the problem of broken fasteners and mount points, but it's not a pressing problem. You wouldn't know anything was amiss by looking in the cargo area, or even testing the panel for stability.

I guess the next thing would be to poke around in the Rohent camera software and see if I can zoom the rear-view image a bit. I hope I can do that.

MORE ON THE ROHENT WI-FI BACKUP CAMERA
Apparently, the specs show this to have a 1080P camera resolution. These are specs I find at Amazon and eBay as well. I cannot adjust any "zoom" feature, but the difference between what I see in the mirror and what I see on the Android can be changed by raising the camera angle a bit. The camera just provides a wider view -- more comprehensive -- than the mirror, and, if tilted slightly downward, displays the pavement between your car and those behind as well as everything else on the highway and the sunset beyond.

Night vision seems to be what you would expect or want. I never have a problem getting started for a drive, with any difficulties getting the camera to connect with the android. Switch on the camera first -- or the ignition, then the camera. Wake or power up the android second. Raise the camera software to foreground. Others claim that having their android linked as necessary to their household wi-fi network requires resetting the Wi-Fi connection for the camera, but I also operate within that same configuration, and have no problem with it as an annoying extra step. The android only connects to the camera by default, but will connect to the home network as I choose or need it to for app upgrades, Google Maps data-renewal, etc.

WHO ELSE IS INTERESTED IN DIY PROJECTS TO BRING A 20TH CENTURY CAR INTO THE 21ST CENTURY? There are enough hits on these threads, but I never hear anything. I'd like to see show-and-tells from others who've done this, or taken it beyond "Generations" to "Deep Space Nine".