Quest for 5 plate Deadlift - My workout journal

[TallBill]

I was progressing real fast on all lifts and in all areas of my body for a long time, but have had RC issues for about 6 months and started having hip flexor issues from squatted and deadlifting every week.

So I've been laying of squatting quite a bit, and have not benched at all in about 2-3 weeks now as part of my RC recovery. I finally committed to repairing the damage.

Anyways, I have not maxed out on a deadlift for a while, maybe I will this week to see my starting point.

A few days ago I pulled 225x5, 315x5, 405x5 and 425x3 I haven't really dedicated any special focus towards increasing my max, but am willing to give 10-12 weeks just on improving my deadlift.

Also, time for me to buy chalk. I can do all my lifts barehanded, but my skin is getting torn apart.


Update 2/17 - For those that didn't read, I pulled 485 cleanly this week and got 495 up with a legal lift, but I'm not quite happy with. I'll be trying again in 2 weeks with a video camera.

Video Update - Blah, used 475 as a stepping stone for 495. I failed the 495 lift and felt REALLY sluggish on the 475. But here's the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZJnA5Tz-Bc

 

[SociallyChallenged]

RC = ?

 

[GenHoth]

Rotator cuff

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: GenHoth
Rotator cuff

Should've known, but couldn't put it together for some reason.

 

[brikis98]

Not sure, I'm following... are you looking for a program solely devoted to deadlift? Can you still squat or bench, or is that totally out due to injuries?

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: brikis98
Not sure, I'm following... are you looking for a program solely devoted to deadlift? Can you still squat or bench, or is that totally out due to injuries?

Deadlift is my main focus. I'll still do other stuff for maintenance, but I'll add those in as I need.

Just seeing if anyone had a progressive program. I've found a few using google, but seeing if anyone had experience following a particular one.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: brikis98
Not sure, I'm following... are you looking for a program solely devoted to deadlift? Can you still squat or bench, or is that totally out due to injuries?

Deadlift is my main focus. I'll still do other stuff for maintenance, but I'll add those in as I need.

Just seeing if anyone had a progressive program. I've found a few using google, but seeing if anyone had experience following a particular one.

Hmm, I haven't done a program specifically dedicated to the deadlift, and it may not be too advisable to focus too much on the deadlift anyway, especially as the weight gets heavier. This article discusses how the lower back tends to have a slower recovery time than many other muscles and that the deadlift tends to fatigue the lower back more than most other exercises. This combination means that doing the deadlift too much might slow your gains.

I'd suggest a program that includes the deadlift no more than once a week for a few low rep sets and spend the rest of my time focusing on other lifts that have carry-over to the deadlift: the squat, power clean and good mornings. I saw pretty rapid gains in my deadlift while doing the Bill Starr 5x5 program with deadlifts just once a week. It's an awesome program, although I'd highly recommend tweaking it to do power cleans at least once a week (in place of rows on Monday, for example) and pull-ups at least once a week (as an assitance exercise on Friday, for example). Another excellent choice may be a West Side Barbell style routine as outlined here and here.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: brikis98
Not sure, I'm following... are you looking for a program solely devoted to deadlift? Can you still squat or bench, or is that totally out due to injuries?

Deadlift is my main focus. I'll still do other stuff for maintenance, but I'll add those in as I need.

Just seeing if anyone had a progressive program. I've found a few using google, but seeing if anyone had experience following a particular one.

What sort of programs have you found? I'm curious because I've generally thought that deadlifting was supposed only be done once or twice a week, due to the heavy weights and relatively slowly recovery.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: brikis98
Not sure, I'm following... are you looking for a program solely devoted to deadlift? Can you still squat or bench, or is that totally out due to injuries?

Deadlift is my main focus. I'll still do other stuff for maintenance, but I'll add those in as I need.

Just seeing if anyone had a progressive program. I've found a few using google, but seeing if anyone had experience following a particular one.

What sort of programs have you found? I'm curious because I've generally thought that deadlifting was supposed only be done once or twice a week, due to the heavy weights and relatively slowly recovery.

It still seems that way to me. Would be hard to revolve a program around something that takes such a long time to recover from. Seems like CNS fatigue would come quick.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

It still seems that way to me. Would be hard to revolve a program around something that takes such a long time to recover from. Seems like CNS fatigue would come quick.

Because of the CNS fatigue you mention, in order to really add weight on deadlift, you have to train the muscles with different exercises. This means that you get better at deadlifting, strangely enough, by not deadlifting. That seems incongruous, doesn't it?

This article talks about a number of exercises that can help train your deadlift totals without actually deadlifting. It doesn't focus on good-mornings much, but they can help, too.

 

[Eric62]

My basic off season Deadlift program I call 5 or failure.
Example: (my actual poundage's vary)
135x5
225x5
315x5
405x5
495x5
585x2 (near failure)
635x1. (As close to me current single rep max as possible).

Today's actual deadlift routine I deviated from the norm, as I just finished a 10 hour graveyard shift, and have another one tonight.
145x5
345x2
545x1 - hard, I wanted 2 reps.
600x1 - very hard, barely made it legal.
550x5 - a 72 year old member of our power crew showed up for some light cardio, and told me he had 2 heart attacks last month before (not diagnosed) and after the WABDL World Championships (went to the hospital, and got 2 stints). He still set a World Record and won the World championship in his age group. His courage enabled me to push myself through the pain barrier in an otherwise lackluster training day.

Good Luck...

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: Eric62
My basic off season Deadlift program I call 5 or failure.
Example: (my actual poundage's vary)
135x5
225x5
315x5
405x5
495x5
585x2 (near failure)
635x1. (As close to me current single rep max as possible).

Today's actual deadlift routine I deviated from the norm, as I just finished a 10 hour graveyard shift, and have another one tonight.
145x5
345x2
545x1 - hard, I wanted 2 reps.
600x1 - very hard, barely made it legal.
550x5 - a 72 year old member of our power crew showed up for some light cardio, and told me he had 2 heart attacks last month before (not diagnosed) and after the WABDL World Championships (went to the hospital, and got 2 stints). He still set a World Record and won the World championship in his age group. His courage enabled me to push myself through the pain barrier in an otherwise lackluster training day.

Good Luck...

Do you do any accessory training?

 

[Eric62]

^^^ Yes. Varies depending on my time, mood and energy levels. Today I limited it to just 3 sets of reverse grip strict pulldowns 150x10x3, then 30 minutes high intensity elliptical training (level#18, distance = 1.91, Max HR 171).
A more "normal" routine would look like the first progression of deadlifts followed by parallel grip pulldowns (strict), low hammer row machine - one arm at a time to 4 or 5 plates (not strict), Reverse Hyper extensions (a la Louie Simmons, strict body weight only for sets of 10), at least one set of 45 degree back extensions for 5 maximum stretch reps (I get tight hams and lower back muscles). 2 sets of lying knee raise machine, 2nd set at 200 pounds (the stack) until failure. Followed by more cardio.
Then when my deadlift day falls on a Saturday, I do everything above plus rack deadlifts with the cross bars set at level #2 from the bottom (mid shin) and I pause every rep on the cross bars before going again. That is my sticking point in my competition deadlift. And again followed by 30 minutes intense elliptical training.
Basically I have 3 different deadlift routines each spaced apart 9 to 10 days - I NEED the recovery time.
I occasionally add reverse band deadlifts, and cable pull throughs. My hips are the weak link in my deadlift, and unfortunately the first area to over train - especially now that I'm competition style squatting and putting a lot of emphasis on my cardio. I also have CNS issues. It's part of my OCD to push myself harder than I can recover from.
First of February I'll make some drastic changes in my training (reduced cardio, and reduced assistance training), increased supplementation, and nutritional (even more calories) programs, as I'll be GEARING up for my USPF powerlifting competition April 4th, as a super heavyweight.
I deadlift every 9 to 10 days (as argued before - LOL) I'm not advocating my training routine to everyone, but merely sharing my training in the hopes that someone will give some aspect of it a try and find it successful.

Probably most important is to consider the WHOLE picture. Not just the training aspect of it. Lets face it - for me this is literally a 24 hour a day sport, but I spend less than 9 hours a week in the Gym, and have made phenomenal gains over the last 2 decades. If you happen to be my identical twin brother so can you. Otherwise I suggest a basic training routine (even the 5x5 that I despise - lol) or a circuit training routine (the way I started believe it or not) until you have developed a sense of what works, and doesn't work for you.
Lengthy post - my apologies...

Once upon I time I envisioned myself writing a book called Maximum Overload. Basically it took training a step further than Mike Menzers Heavy Duty, and Dorian Yates Blood and Guts training theories. It would have advocated many techniques I invented, and several I've borrowed from others. But now as a 46 years old I rarely employ those over the top intensity techniques - again the fragile CNS and over training issues, plus over use injuries. Anyone interested in hearing some of them PM me and I'll share (gratis of course). I'd like to see if others can build the kind of foundation I did 10 - 15 years ago drug free using my maximum overload techniques.

 

[TallBill]

Good reading, a whole bunch of different things to work with. I'm gonna try a mix of methods, maybe each for 8 weeks, and see what works the best for me. Perhaps just doing variety will help anyways.

I've been leaving a 5-8 day rest between deadlift days, and will continue with that theory. Today I pulled singles.

405, 425, 445, 455, 455 I probably could have pushed it some more, but I haven't gone that high in a while. If I can get up to 495 I'll be very happy. I'll probably bring a camera next time to recheck my form. I pulled 455 a long time ago with pretty mediocre form. What I'm doing now feels a lot better, but I'd like to see it with my own eyes.

Anyways, I'll do a mix of squats, rack pulls, and good mornings as accessories.

I really feel like I need some chalk though. I did all of those lifts today bare handed without any significant grip issues, but on volume days they get beat up. I avoid straps as much as possible.

 

[TallBill]

Workout #1 - Baseline

After a quick warm up, I pulled singles in an effort to max out. I probably could have gone a little heavier, but still happy. All done without straps.

Deadlift
1x405, 1x425, 1x445, 1x455, 1x455

Nuetral grip chins
2x8xbw

Cable Rows, close grip
3x8x140

Finished with a bit of bicep work. On a funny note, between my pulls at 455 two high school kids walked by, pointed at the bar and the ground, said "holy shit", and kept walking.

Also, I ordered some 2oz blocks of chalk tonight. Kinda confused at how it'll be packaged or how I should store it.

 

[Eric62]

Tupperware container for the chalk.
Some Baby Powder for your legs is recommended as well.
Hehe - don't confuse the two. Chalk for hands, Baby powder for thighs - LOL.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Eric62
Tupperware container for the chalk.
Some Baby Powder for your legs is recommended as well.
Hehe - don't confuse the two. Chalk for hands, Baby powder for thighs - LOL.

Yeah, I read a significant warning about that

 

[Koing]

Always use chalk as most commerical gyms have no chalk and the bar is greasy as f0ck...

Koing

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Koing
Always use chalk as most commerical gyms have no chalk and the bar is greasy as f0ck...

Koing

It'll be here in a few days.

 

[TallBill]

Did a nice little Chest/Tricep workout today without pressing. Db pullovers, dips, pushups, decline barbell pullovers, tricep pushdowns. Nothing to snazzy, but saved the RC. Probably won't lift again till saturday.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: TallBill
Did a nice little Chest/Tricep workout today without pressing. Db pullovers, dips, pushups, decline barbell pullovers, tricep pushdowns. Nothing to snazzy, but saved the RC. Probably won't lift again till saturday.

How often are you doing exercises explicitly for that bad RC of your's?

<- Curious.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: TallBill
Did a nice little Chest/Tricep workout today without pressing. Db pullovers, dips, pushups, decline barbell pullovers, tricep pushdowns. Nothing to snazzy, but saved the RC. Probably won't lift again till saturday.

How often are you doing exercises explicitly for that bad RC of your's?

<- Curious.

I do some of these exercises daily:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MMD5L7498
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgEmJdDQzg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33P5AI27eiU

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Whoa, what the hell is the last one? I would like to read StrongLifts explanation of that. All the other ones are fairly generic PT exercises, which prove to be quite effective. The last one I've never ever seen and seems like it would be bad for ligaments and such.

EDIT: Found the article. They still scare the hell outta me.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Whoa, what the hell is the last one? I would like to read StrongLifts explanation of that. All the other ones are fairly generic PT exercises, which prove to be quite effective. The last one I've never ever seen and seems like it would be bad for ligaments and such.

EDIT: Found the article. They still scare the hell outta me.

Shoulder dislocations scare you? I thought they were a pretty common way of improving shoulder flexibility. I use them pretty much every day.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Whoa, what the hell is the last one? I would like to read StrongLifts explanation of that. All the other ones are fairly generic PT exercises, which prove to be quite effective. The last one I've never ever seen and seems like it would be bad for ligaments and such.

EDIT: Found the article. They still scare the hell outta me.

Shoulder dislocations scare you? I thought they were a pretty common way of improving shoulder flexibility. I use them pretty much every day.

Yea, they are a standard shoulder flexibility exercise. I used them extensively to build up the flexibility to do overhead squats and the snatch. However, you are typically supposed to do it much slower than in the actual video. I'm not an orthopedic doctor or anything, so I can't say if they are technically safe or not, but they always made my shoulders feel better and I know they are recommended quite frequently.