quarantine nurse complains

[fskimospy]

For a real laugh, check out the CDC's web site on Ebola. http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices


Obviously Eskimospy and his experts need to visit the CDC and penetrate their "wall of ignorance and pride". Don't they know that's the very worst thing we can do? Boy, the CDC's gonna have some 'splainin' to do!

Lol. Do you even know what you're reading? Saying that individuals should choose to avoid an area is not a travel ban. In fact, the CDC opposes a travel ban for... You guessed it... All the same reasons I've already mentioned.

Nice self ownage. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Texashiker]

I at least have expert opinion on my side. Since the number of transmissions to the public so far has been zero, good luck.

You are wrong and the experts are wrong.

And I am going to tell you why.

Lets say this ebola stuff passes and nothing happens. A few people get sick and nobody dies.

Something like ebola happens again. No quarantine is put into place, nobody dies, everything goes better than expected.

The public and the health officials will let their guard down.

When something like the marburg virus comes along people will say there is nothing to worry about. There is no need for quarantine and there is no need for extra safety measures. It will be like ebola and never get a foothold.

Our complacency will be our downfall.

That is exactly what happened on the coast of Texas during Hurricane Ike. People became complacent that nothing was going to happen. They had weathered other hurricanes and nothing happened. But Ike was different from other hurricanes and people died.

It is in the best interest of the public that full safety measures be enforced at all times. Never let your guard down, because that is when the crap hits the fan.

Hurricane Sandy - people had been through storms before, no big deal, right?

 

[Strk]

You are wrong and the experts are wrong.

And I am going to tell you why.

Lets say this ebola stuff passes and nothing happens. A few people get sick and nobody dies.

Something like ebola happens again. No quarantine is put into place, nobody dies, everything goes better than expected.

The public and the health officials will let their guard down.

When something like the marburg virus comes along people will say there is nothing to worry about. There is no need for quarantine and there is no need for extra safety measures. It will be like ebola and never get a foothold.

Our complacency will be our downfall.

Except health care officials can't let their guard down. They handle patients with very deadly pathogens every day. And precautions are always being made whenever possible whether you realize it or not (I.e. hospitals using vanish-point needles etc).

 

[Exterous]

Long thought to be a death sentence, Ebola has proved vulnerable to a mix of standard and invasive medical techniques, readily available in the U.S.

From everything I have read the effective drugs like Zmapp are in incredibly short supply - not to mention the limited number of people to get transfusions from

 

[Texashiker]

Except health care officials can't let their guard down. They handle patients with very deadly pathogens every day. And precautions are always being made whenever possible whether you realize it or not (I.e. hospitals using vanish-point needles etc).

And meteorologist deal with bad weather all the time, so what?

The people will become complacent.

They will ignore the warnings just like they did with Hurricane Sandy and Hurricane Ike.

 

[Paratus]

From everything I have read the effective drugs like Zmapp are in incredibly short supply - not to mention the limited number of people to get transfusions from

You need to be careful with using the term"effective" with drugs like ZMAPP. They haven't been through testing to say they are effective or not. Some of the patients who received them got better and others still died. Several of the cases in the US didn't receive any ZMAPP and still recovered.

The experimental drugs and convlascent serum may have helped but aggressive supportive care available here did most of the work to keep these patients alive.

 

[fskimospy]

You are wrong and the experts are wrong.

And I am going to tell you why.

Lets say this ebola stuff passes and nothing happens. A few people get sick and nobody dies.

Something like ebola happens again. No quarantine is put into place, nobody dies, everything goes better than expected.

The public and the health officials will let their guard down.

When something like the marburg virus comes along people will say there is nothing to worry about. There is no need for quarantine and there is no need for extra safety measures. It will be like ebola and never get a foothold.

Our complacency will be our downfall.

That is exactly what happened on the coast of Texas during Hurricane Ike. People became complacent that nothing was going to happen. They had weathered other hurricanes and nothing happened. But Ike was different from other hurricanes and people died.

It is in the best interest of the public that full safety measures be enforced at all times. Never let your guard down, because that is when the crap hits the fan.

Hurricane Sandy - people had been through storms before, no big deal, right?

"We must be irrational now because I'm afraid that in the future we will be irrational."

You can't make this stuff up. I will inform the CDC, the WHO, and medics bodies all over the world that they have been wasting their lives; a welder or whatever in Texas who is routinely mocked for saying stupid, ignorant, and insane things has determined they are wrong.

This is getting to be a pretty interesting study in confirmation bias. I will have to remember all the people in this thread who declared the world's medical establishment wrong about something they have no understanding of. I hope you guys never try to cite expert opinion on anything else, as clearly you don't care for it.

 

[wetech]

And yet, and yet, and yet...
I find it interesting that that you aren't willing to grant that these people who are highly trained and risking their lives fighting the disease in Africa are going to come back to The US and forget absolutely everything they know about the disease (and medicine in general) and behave like you or me with the flu.

Actually, I don't find it interesting, I find it damn strange.

And yet it appears that's exactly what happened:

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/ebola-doctor-lied-about-his-nyc-travels-police/

The city’s first Ebola patient initially lied to authorities about his travels around the city following his return from treating disease victims in Africa, law-enforcement sources said.

Dr. Craig Spencer at first told officials that he isolated himself in his Harlem apartment — and didn’t admit he rode the subways, dined out and went bowling until cops looked at his MetroCard the sources said.

“He told the authorities that he self-quarantined. Detectives then reviewed his credit-card statement and MetroCard and found that he went over here, over there, up and down and all around,” a source said.

Spencer finally ’fessed up when a cop “got on the phone and had to relay questions to him through the Health Department,” a source said.

Officials then retraced Spencer’s steps, which included dining at The Meatball Shop in Greenwich Village and bowling at The Gutter in Brooklyn.

So here's a doctor, highly trained, who went to Africa to fight the disease. He knows how important it is to trace all contacts with symptomatic people. And the first thing he does when he comes down with symptoms is lie to the authorities about how many people he came in contact with; only telling the truth when confronted with evidence that he was lying.

 

[fskimospy]

And yet it appears that's exactly what happened:

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/ebola-doctor-lied-about-his-nyc-travels-police/


So here's a doctor, highly trained, who went to Africa to fight the disease. He knows how important it is to trace all contacts with symptomatic people. And the first thing he does when he comes down with symptoms is lie to the authorities about how many people he came in contact with; only telling the truth when confronted with evidence that he was lying.

None of that happened while symptomatic.

 

[Texashiker]

You can't make this stuff up. I will inform the CDC, the WHO, and medics bodies all over the world that they have been wasting their lives

The CDC needs to set an example for future outbreaks. Show the people this is how we act when an infectious agent is brought into the nation.

Not putting people in quarantine is setting a bad example.

In effect, the cdc is saying even though there is possible exposure, go ahead and walk around the public. Go to a movie, go bowling, whatever you want.

Then people will say, Marburg, its like ebola, nothing to worry about.

 

[Paratus]

And yet it appears that's exactly what happened:

http://nypost.com/2014/10/29/ebola-doctor-lied-about-his-nyc-travels-police/


So here's a doctor, highly trained, who went to Africa to fight the disease. He knows how important it is to trace all contacts with symptomatic people. And the first thing he does when he comes down with symptoms is lie to the authorities about how many people he came in contact with; only telling the truth when confronted with evidence that he was lying.

He self-monitored. He self-reported. The health officials verified his where-abouts regardless of what he said because they know people can lie to prevent embarrasment or just be plain wrong or to ill to respond.

There are at least three controls to locating potential secondary cases:

1. Self-Reporting Contacts
2. Investigating specific contacts by health officials
3. Blanket investigations where the public is asked to self-identify contact with the patient.

All three have to fail before it's possible to have an unmonitored ebola case.
Looks like the system worked to me.

 

[wetech]

None of that happened while symptomatic.

That excuses lying about it to authorities? He was self montoring, but who knows how many people he came in contact with in between checks. If he lies and says he saw no one, how is follow up supposed to occur? Isn't erring on the side of caution and telling the truth the better course of action?

 

[wetech]

He self-monitored. He self-reported. The health officials verified his where-abouts regardless of what he said because they know people can lie to prevent embarrasment or just be plain wrong or to ill to respond.

There are at least three controls to locating potential secondary cases:

1. Self-Reporting Contacts
2. Investigating specific contacts by health officials
3. Blanket investigations where the public is asked to self-identify contact with the patient.

All three have to fail before it's possible to have an unmonitored ebola case.
Looks like the system worked to me.

The post was in reply to a statement that health professionals wouldn't possibly ignore their training when they come back to the US. That's exactly what happened.

 

[fskimospy]

The post was in reply to a statement that health professionals wouldn't possibly ignore their training when they come back to the US. That's exactly what happened.

He self-monitored and then went to the hospital when he became symptomatic. That's what their training says to do.

 

[Paratus]

The CDC needs to set an example for future outbreaks. Show the people this is how we act when an infectious agent is brought into the nation.

Not putting people in quarantine is setting a bad example.

In effect, the cdc is saying even though there is possible exposure, go ahead and walk around the public. Go to a movie, go bowling, whatever you want.

Then people will say, Marburg, its like ebola, nothing to worry about.

Everything isn't solved with a hammer TX. A quarantine is appropriate for an airborne virus more deadly than the seasonal flu, not ebola.

And also Marburg is in the same classification of viruses as ebola so the procedures are the same. Find a better example.

 

[fskimospy]

The CDC needs to set an example for future outbreaks. Show the people this is how we act when an infectious agent is brought into the nation.

Not putting people in quarantine is setting a bad example.

In effect, the cdc is saying even though there is possible exposure, go ahead and walk around the public. Go to a movie, go bowling, whatever you want.

Then people will say, Marburg, its like ebola, nothing to worry about.

No, the CDC is following science. That is the best example to set. If people wanted ignorant and hysterical people who ignore science to be in charge of medical policy they would hire you or werepossum.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The CDC needs to set an example for future outbreaks. Show the people this is how we act when an infectious agent is brought into the nation.

Not putting people in quarantine is setting a bad example.

In effect, the cdc is saying even though there is possible exposure, go ahead and walk around the public. Go to a movie, go bowling, whatever you want.

Then people will say, Marburg, its like ebola, nothing to worry about.

Where do you plan on putting all the flu victims? That's killed more than ebola and if you say it's not deadly I'll refer you to the 1917 pandemic which most likely stopped a whole World War and killed far more than that did. Yes there is a distinct possibility that flu will turn just as deadly. So mandatory vaccination for everyone or mandatory confinement for everyone exposed to someone who might have the flu?

Set the example and pick one.

 

[wetech]

He self-monitored and then went to the hospital when he became symptomatic. That's what their training says to do.

Does training also say lie when asked where you've been and who you've been in contact with? I don't think it says to give blantently false information if you don't deem it relavent.

 

[fskimospy]

Does training also say lie when asked where you've been and who you've been in contact with? I don't think it says to give blantently false information if you don't deem it relavent.

I'm sure it doesn't. I agree with you that he should have mentioned his previous activity out of an abundance of caution, but considering you cannot spread the virus when you are not symptomatic it's hard to see how that's evidence of not following his training.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm sure it doesn't. I agree with you that he should have mentioned his previous activity out of an abundance of caution, but considering you cannot spread the virus when you are not symptomatic it's hard to see how that's evidence of not following his training.

I'd be interested to know exactly how the question was asked. Asking "who did you have contact with recently" could reasonably translate into "who did I have contact with since I've become infectious". If the question is "who did you come in contact with since you might have been exposed" is another.

BTW in advance on a potential future scenario, there is one situation where I could see grounds for a period of isolation and monitoring, and that's if we deploy troops who may be exposed depending on the nature of their duty and not always in all cases. If however we had a greater number of people returning than we could properly monitor once spread out, then I could see some adjustment made, but again this is completely dependent on what is happening at that time.

 

[bshole]

I'm sure it doesn't. I agree with you that he should have mentioned his previous activity out of an abundance of caution, but considering you cannot spread the virus when you are not symptomatic it's hard to see how that's evidence of not following his training.

This isn't a case of forgetting to mention something. This is a case of outright lying.

 

[Paratus]

When werepossum Texashiker and Best Korea all agree on something the world better take notice.

 

[emperus]

The CDC needs to set an example for future outbreaks. Show the people this is how we act when an infectious agent is brought into the nation.

Not putting people in quarantine is setting a bad example.

In effect, the cdc is saying even though there is possible exposure, go ahead and walk around the public. Go to a movie, go bowling, whatever you want.

Then people will say, Marburg, its like ebola, nothing to worry about.

As with all things Republican. You seem to peddle a lot of fear but not much in the way of coherent policies. Please explain to me in detail what your policy would be in regards to any medical professional who treats Ebola patients. In your answer please explain what your policy would be to any US medical professional in a US hospital who treats infected patients that come into their hospitals.

 

[massmedia]

To be abundantly clear there's absolutely no concession here. The evidence clearly points to it putting the public at risk, as in the absence of an involved study expert knowledge is used.

If anything you should be conceding that the evidence indicates a harm to the public.



It's not just the CDC, it's every medical organization that I am aware of.



Since apparently you think that Doctors Without Borders are the experts here you will be glad to hear that they agree with me that quarantines are a terrible idea as well.

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/ebola-quarantine-can-undermine-efforts-curb-epidemic

So I'm assuming that you're going to concede the point now, correct?

Again you admit that there is no scientific basis that quarantining nurses does any public harm. You reliance on opinion of "experts" is laughable. The opinions of scientists is not science. The opinions of bureaucrats who are proven to both lie and claim as fact that which simply can not be known... those opinions are a completely worthless.

what CAN be known is that the potential for a person in lockdown quarantine to spread ebola os orders of magnitude less than the chance for that same person to spread it when and if they become contagious.

i never said that doctors without borders are experts regarding the question of quarantine. An expert in one aspect of medicine does not make someone an expert in whether or not that same person should be quarantined. This is an atrociously simple concept, how is it that you can be so ignorant and yet so prolific in your nonsense postings? Doctors without borders have a mind-numbingly-blatantly-obvious conflict of interest with regards to the question of quarantining medical personnel. This conflict of interest is so frigging easy to see that any simpleton would know that their OPINION with regards to this question cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This isn't a case of forgetting to mention something. This is a case of outright lying.

Well then since you know that with such certainty, I'd like you to precisely, note that word precisely, tell us what the initial question was? I haven't found that out myself. If you want to hang a man it's usually best to know that the reason you have the rope in you hand is the same as the one for which he's really going to be strung up.