quarantine nurse complains

[fskimospy]

Aren't most people idiots?

Why do so many assume health care people are infallible?

So current policy is to allow hundreds, if not thousands, to return to the US and roam around freely with the expectation that they will be infallible, show great judgement and turn themselves right before becoming infectious? I can't see how anything could go wrong with that.

And, BTW, turn themselves into where? We now know that assurances that "virtually every hospital can handle Ebola" is utterly incorrect. Are they supposed to go to their local hospital so we can have another "Dallas"?

While I think this woman is a self-centered idiot (an idiot because she could have flown into one of the other airports where there was no state quarantine if she has that big of a problem with it) this incident just highlights that we still have no real policy to deal with Ebola.

Should workers be quarantined, whether upon returning or even before departing (the latter being a better idea and in accordance with the stated goal of keeping Ebola isolated over there so we can focus on it and stamp it out)? Maybe. There are several benefits to a quarantine:

1. We can ensure that the general public won't be infected by a returnee.
2. The above will eliminate the panic we've seen in the Dallas case and the NY physician.
3. Quarantine locations can be located near the 5 (IIRC) hospitals that are qualified to handle Ebola cases.
4. The above eliminates the unnecessary risk to domestic HC workers avoiding a repeat of the Dallas incidence.
5. We have close to 6,000 hospitals in the US. It's likely inefficient and unnecessarily expensive to equip and train the other 5,995 hospitals for Ebola. If returnees were quarantined near one of the 5 existing facilities we needn't worry about this.
6. Reports indicate that transporting patients to the Mayo clinic etc is extremely expensive. This costs would also be saved.

But if people are going to be quarantined they need to know it before volunteering. (Is it really too much to ask of people who are going to volunteer? I don't think so.)

And they need to be in decent accommodations, not tents.

And they should probably be compensated by the US govt. It's likely cheaper in the long run.

So far, according to experts, we have badly misjudged the impact of Ebola. We need to get a comprehensive plan in place, both for best-case and worse-case scenarios.

Or, we can just let relatively high risk people roam around freely and hope for the best (the latter seems our current plan).

Fern

"Why are we listening to medical experts with experience on the issue!?! They could be idiots!!"

"Now listen to me, an individual with exactly zero knowledge or experience on the matter tell you what we should be doing, because doing that is totally not idiotic."

Why do we bother paying people to study this or formulate a response? We have people on the Internet with no knowledge or experience to do that for us. And hey, the least we can do to people who are volunteering to help control this outbreak in Africa is imprison them upon their return, thus depressing volunteer turnout.

Hysterical and ignorant people have been actively making our response worse from the start. I wish they would stop.

 

[Texashiker]

Why do we bother paying people to study this or formulate a response?

Its not like the CDC has a solid history on dealing with outbreaks.

Why are we funding the CDC when two nurses contract ebola and a doctor brings it back from africa?

Didn't the cdc give a nurse that treated duncan a green light to fly? And you call those people professionals?

 

[alkemyst]

I understand perfectly what my stance is. It seems like you are the one who is confused.

Allow me to spell it out for you.

You provaccine nutters who justify firing employees and mandatory vaccines are being forced to pause and think about civil rights when your "pro-public health" stance is taken a step further.

You nutters are right, public health trumps civil rights, there is even a supreme court decision on the topic. Lets see how far that logic gets us in this politically correct atmosphere.

Someone comes back from a hot zone, quarantine them for at least 21 days. Fire them, put them in jail,,, whatever it takes to protect the public. You think doctors and nurses will want to go through that kind of treatment? Of course not. Before long nurses and doctors will stop going to Africa.

Yeah, best way to win is name calling.

I never said I believed in mandatory vaccines. I said many hospitals require them of their staff, if you don't like that; find a new job...

Also I never said public health trumps civil rights, I said the rights of a care giver in medicine come second to their patients/people.

Sit down a moment and think about that.

 

[fskimospy]

Maybe people would be well served to listen to the New England Journal of Medicine:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1413139

The governors of a number of states, including New York and New Jersey, recently imposed 21-day quarantines on health care workers returning to the United States from regions of the world where they may have cared for patients with Ebola virus disease. We understand their motivation for this policy — to protect the citizens of their states from contracting this often-fatal illness. This approach, however, is not scientifically based, is unfair and unwise, and will impede essential efforts to stop these awful outbreaks of Ebola disease at their source, which is the only satisfactory goal. The governors' action is like driving a carpet tack with a sledgehammer: it gets the job done but overall is more destructive than beneficial.

 

[JD50]

Its not like the CDC has a solid history on dealing with outbreaks.

Why are we funding the CDC when two nurses contract ebola and a doctor brings it back from africa?

Didn't the cdc give a nurse that treated duncan a green light to fly? And you call those people professionals?

How did that turn out?

 

[Texashiker]

I said many hospitals require them of their staff, if you don't like that; find a new job...

Don't like quarantine? Don't go to a hot zone.

 

[Texashiker]

How did that turn out?

Seems to have turned out fine.

That is if you do not count scaring the public.

 

[Screech]

I think there is a pretty huge gap between taking people who have volunteered to help in Africa and choosing to "imprison them upon their return" to america and doing nothing. Again, paid stay at home time playing tf2 and eating delivery doesn't exactly sound like being shipped off to manzanar.

Such a policy would have a very important benefit (even if there is literally ZERO potential health benefit, a viewpoint I disagree with, but I digress), which is this: it would show that there actually IS a plan in place that IS being followed which would do a lot to convince the average irrational voter that we don't need to, say, shut off all transportation from west africa. The idea that such a thing might happen (shutting off all transportation) is the sort of thing that, frankly, could certainly stop people from going. If there was assurance that steps were being taken to make sure that people could indeed return home (yes, with a terrible, stay at home tf2 and pizza time, oh the horror) in the future, that seems to me a good way to make sure that people would still volunteer to go in the first place.

edit: and yes, i hate that i am basically agreeing with TH here.... :\

 

[CitizenKain]

Its not like the CDC has a solid history on dealing with outbreaks.

Why are we funding the CDC when two nurses contract ebola and a doctor brings it back from africa?

Didn't the cdc give a nurse that treated duncan a green light to fly? And you call those people professionals?

There is a reason that we don't listen to poorly educated rednecks about anything important.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Seems to have turned out fine.

That is if you do not count scaring the public.

The public scared itself. Look in a mirror.

 

[Blanky]

Politicians are not qualified to make medical decisions.

Fact

 

[piasabird]

Let them get health care in Arica.

 

[emperus]

Don't like quarantine? Don't go to a hot zone.

So, what about the doctors/nurses who have treated Ebola patients in the US? Should we quarantine them for 21 days? Again, from my count the only US health workers infected were infected in the US.

Yeah, your prescription gets undermined by fact and logic. Something, Christie and Cuomo probably both learned.

 

[Paratus]

Seems to have turned out fine.

That is if you do not count scaring the public.

 

[JD50]

Seems to have turned out fine.

That is if you do not count scaring the public.

So the CDC was right?

 

[zinfamous]

Seems to have turned out fine.

That is if you do not count scaring the public.

 

[Texashiker]

So the CDC was right?

Seems they were right.

 

[Genx87]

Oh.. oh.. I get it. Public health, like Obamacare?

Lets see... fat people consume too much... healthcare, aka public health. If we trump civil rights then we can dictate your food, your excisere. Your entire life style. Your decisions become our decisions, to ensure you require less healthcare, leaving more for other people. ($$$) Public health.

Careful what you do with that argument.

I tried to warn him about using that argument.

 

[Genx87]

I think there is a pretty huge gap between taking people who have volunteered to help in Africa and choosing to "imprison them upon their return" to america and doing nothing. Again, paid stay at home time playing tf2 and eating delivery doesn't exactly sound like being shipped off to manzanar.

Such a policy would have a very important benefit (even if there is literally ZERO potential health benefit, a viewpoint I disagree with, but I digress), which is this: it would show that there actually IS a plan in place that IS being followed which would do a lot to convince the average irrational voter that we don't need to, say, shut off all transportation from west africa. The idea that such a thing might happen (shutting off all transportation) is the sort of thing that, frankly, could certainly stop people from going. If there was assurance that steps were being taken to make sure that people could indeed return home (yes, with a terrible, stay at home tf2 and pizza time, oh the horror) in the future, that seems to me a good way to make sure that people would still volunteer to go in the first place.

edit: and yes, i hate that i am basically agreeing with TH here.... :\

A plan, any plan. This is the problem I have with our reaction to crisis as a society. It doesn't matter if the course of action is correct or has a positive outcome. Just do something!

And I have to ask, how old are you? TF2 + Pizza? Im assuming in your 20s? A lot of these professionals have bills to pay. Who is going to be compensating them for not working over 3 weeks?

 

[Texashiker]

Who is going to be compensating them for not working over 3 weeks?

Who is going to compensate someone who lost their job for refusing to take a vaccine?

Group A - no vaccine? You are fired, now lose your home and car.

Group B - poor pitiful doctors and nurses, who is going to compensate them.

Civil rights are civil rights. We can not pick and choose who is deserving.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

OMGWTFBBQ!!!!! TexasHick gone full retard yet again.

 

[Texashiker]

OMGWTFBBQ!!!!! TexasHick gone full retard yet again.

lulz,

 

[Genx87]

Who is going to compensate someone who lost their job for refusing to take a vaccine?

You are probably just fine with someone getting fired for standing up for their civil rights. But all of a sudden you feel compassion for doctors and nurses?

You are a bigot.

Group A - no vaccine? You are fired, now lose your home and car.

Group B - poor pitiful doctors and nurses, who is going to compensate them.

Civil rights are civil rights. We can not pick and choose who is deserving.

I love how you open your argument with saying I "probably" feel a way. Then go about attacking me based on your fantasy argument.

 

[Texashiker]

I love how you open your argument with saying I "probably" feel a way. Then go about attacking me based on your fantasy argument.

You are right, I apologize. Bigot part removed from post.

I will reframe from such behavior in the future.

 

[massmedia]

It leads to public harm by the judgment of experts in the field. Considering we have never had 21 day quarantines on nurses that have treated Ebola patients before I'm quite sure you know such a paper can't exist.

Can you explain why you believe you have a superior understanding of the requirements for monitoring of people from that region than the recognized experts in the field?

Ahh... so there is no concrete evidence that quarantining ebola nurses puts the public at risk. Thanks for conceding that point.

Which "experts in the field"... the head of the CDC is an incompetent lying politicking fuckwit for which we have evidence. If you'd like i'll dig up an old post of mine that explains this.

The WHO completely ignored this current Ebola crisis for months because in a breeze of overconfidence (not wholly unlike the hot air that you keep spewing) they believed they understood completely how this outbreak would play out despite Doctors Without Borders begging for help and notifying them that the outbreak was getting out of hand.