Quake 4/Battlefield 2 computer :D

[denl82]

Hi guys
I'm looking for guidance and input for building my new computer
I'm building this computer to play modern games--specifically, Battlefield 2, Quake 4, and F.E.A.R--surf the web, edit photographs,
and play music. One of my main goals is to have this computer produce over 100 fps in Quake 4, using the high quality setting--"everything"
turned on minus Anti-Aliasing and Anisotropic filtering--at 1152x864 resolution, with the fps dropping no further than 60 in the most
demanding situations( I can see if this computer produces 100 fps with a timedemo). I want the absolute best stability, power, longevity, and
overclockability attainable with $1600.

I've done moderate research to acquaint myself with today's hardware, by reading customer reviews(newegg.com), reviews found on google.com,
and forum topics. Below, there is a list of the hardware components I look forward to using for my needs, along with their prices.
Following this list is a section containing links to tomshardware.com's search guide, which provides the cheapest deal for a product;
the stores from which I want to buy the products; benchmarks and reviews of the particular hardware; and comments on why I chose the particular
hardware components for my computer. This section should provide an idea of why I chose these particular components. The last section in this
post contains additional information relavant to my endeavor.

(1)AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual Core Processor--$320.84
(2)DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D--$119.99
(3)Corsair 2GB PC4000 TWINX20484000PT--$230.99
(4)NEC ND-3550A DVD Burner--$44.96
(5)Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 250GB--$109.75
(6)eVGA e-GeForce 7800 GT CO Video Card--$346.02
(7)OCZ Technology PowerStream 520W--$131.04
(8)Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic--$110.84
(9)Windows XP Professional with SP2 OEM--$129.98

total: $1544.41


CPU

(1) X2 3800+ Dual Core Processor

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=10479095/promo_id=63

$320.84 at pchotline.com

--

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/cpu-games2_6.html benchmark containing the x2 3800+
( The link above has benchmarks of all the games I've mentioned in the introduction, running on the same cpu, motherboard, graphics card,
and same amount of memory that I want. In the benchmark, this set up produces 76.2 fps with Quake 4 set to ultra quality at 1280x1024 resolution,
and 4x FSAA enabled. Being that 1280x1024 resolution is approximately one resolution above 1152x864, and that 4x FSAA commonly decreases games'
fps by 10-25 if it's turned on, I believe my computer will produce close to 100 fps in Quake 4 with the x2 3800+ and the 7800 GT. My cpu choice
after the x2 3800+ is the 4000+ San Diego single core processor, since it sells for almost the same price as x2 3800+, and has excellent
performance in games. But I prefer the x2 3800+ over the 4000+ because it outperforms the 4000+ in multi-threaded applications and multi-tasking,
and is on par with the 4000+ in games played in high graphic settings. The x2 3800+ will also be more future proof than the 4000+ Sandy, as
multi-threaded games are released. I hope to overclock the x2 3800+ 500 mhz to around 2.5 ghz. The higher the clock, the better)


MotherBoard

(2) DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 Ultra-D

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_g...168&search=DFI+LANPARTY+UT+nF4+Ultra-D

$119.99 at zipzoomfly.com

--

http://www.cluboc.net/reviews/motherboards/dfi/dfiultraD/p5.htm review
( I decided to go with this motherboard because I've seen it as a very popular overclocking motherboard on the web.)


Memory

(3)Corsair 2GB PC4000 TWINX20484000PT

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_g...sterid=13003373&search=TWINX20484000PT

$230.99 at monarchcomputer.com

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/268/7/
( The review above uses the same motherboard and cpu I will use in my system. I plan to buy the TWINX2048-4000PT because I want to easily
overclock the x2 3800+ cpu from 2.0 ghz to 2.5 ghz. This ram was suggested to me for that task.)


DVD±RW

(4) NEC ND-3550A DVD Burner oem

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=13841402

$44.96 at SuperMediaStore.com

--

http://www.cdfreaks.com/article/214/9 review of the ND-3540A
( I've learned from user reviews and internet reviews that the NEC ND-3540A is a reliable, quality DVD burner. With $.84 more cents,
I can get the newer ND-3550A model. I've learned from a customer review that this model is supposedly more reliable than the older ND-3540A.)


Hard drive

(5) Hitachi Deskstar T7K250 250GB

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=8451346/promo_id=63

$109.75 from zipzoomfly.com

--

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2454&p=10 Benchmark showing the T7K250 loading Doom 3 faster than the Raptor 74 gig hd
( This hard drive doesn't have outstanding reviews on the web. However, I chose the T7K250 over the WD Raptor WD740GD because it performs
similiarly to the Raptor hard drive, yet provides more storage space; and over the Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB hard drive, because the
performance differences between the two are nominal*, but the T7K250 costs about $10 cheaper. I was told that my first hard drive choice, the
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 300GB Hard Drive with 16 mb cache, may give me compatiblity problems with the nforce4 chipset. If I wasn't a game recording
and screenshot maniac, I would buy the Raptor WD740GD. But as it is, I love to record every minute I play Quake 2 online, and I take thousands
of screenshots of this 7+ year old game. So I'm pretty sure I'll have the same habits in the beautiful Quake 4. *I haven't found any
benchmarks directly comparing the T7K250 to the Caviar SE16)


Video card

(6) eVGA e-GeForce 7800 GT CO Video Card

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=12596594

$346.02 at mwave.com

--
http://hardware.gamershell.com/articles/evga_e-geforce_7800_gt_co_review/6.html review
http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=m...index&req=viewarticle&artid=191&page=2 benchmarks
( After researching a range of video cards, the 7800 GT seems to be the best bang-for-buck video card I can get. The e-Geforce 7800 GT
CO stands out from other 7800 GT products because of its factory overclocked core and memory clock speeds, which I prefer to the clock speeds
of other 7800 GT variants; and its copper cooling solution, which might allow good overclocking results. The first link above shows this card
performing 1-3 fps below the 7800 GTX in F.E.A.R, on a 3800+ Venice cpu.)


Power Supply

(7) OCZ Technology PowerStream 520W Power Supply With Adjustable Power Rails

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=3996876

$131.04 at directron.com

--

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/ocz520/index6.php review
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10854&highlight=sli-dr+psu psu guide
( I decided to use this psu based on all the great reviews it has, the many times it's been recommended in general, and its
inclusion of adjustable power rails, which may help system stability, specifically when overclocking hardware. I have 5 case fans,
but I found it very effective to use only one of the case fans which faces the motherboard. *It lower's my t-bird cpu heavy-load tempurature
about 10 degrees celcius*;D)


Sound card

(8) Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=11274962

$110.84 at pchotline.com
--

http://techreport.com/reviews/2005q4/soundblaster-x-fi/index.x?pg=22 review
( This sound card has great reviews on the web. I eventually want to buy the Beyerdynamic DT880 headphone.
If anyone has any thoughts on this, feel free to comment)


Operating system

(9) Microsoft Windows XP Professional W/SP2

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=4197929

$129.98 at viosoftware.com

--

( I was told that Windows XP Professional is better for gaming than Windows XP home edition.)




From this point, until early Janurary, I will research forums for information regarding the hardware I'm buying,
and hope that prices continue to drop.

Any suggestions, advice, links, or anything else that can help me buy gaming-oriented hardware within my budget,
build it in any better-than-standard methodical way, and use steps I should take once I successfully install windows( to gauge the computer's
stability, etc.) will be very helpful Opinions and advice that are logical and use references will be greatly helpful;D

And, if anyone can refer me to a good amd64 and nforce4 overclocking guide, that also would be very helful

Thank you!

--------------------

Additional info


Cpu Cooling ?

(4) Thermaltake CL-P0114 Big Typhoon

http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_g...7930408&search=Thermaltake+Big+Typhoon

$46.90 at 4reseller.com

--

http://www.3dxtreme.net/index.php?id=ttbigtyphoon4
http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/19897.shtml
( I want to overclock the x2 3800+ to at least 2.5 ghz from 2.0 ghz, so I thought the Big TT would be excellent cooling, especially for
its price when compared to the Thermalright xp-90/xp-120 plus fan combinations. However, I decided a DVD-burner will be more useful for the
about the same price as the Big TT. I will probably buy the Big Typhoon later on, when I feel it's necessary.)

******

I am interested in getting the Beyerdynamic DT880 headphones next year February. After comparing headphones from Sennheiser HD280 Pro to AKG k701, I settled
to decide between the DT880 and the Audio-Technica ATH-A900. The A900 were often recommended for gaming, but I liked the DT880 more than the
A900 because it is often compared to and thought of as a hi-fi headphone, and my family might be mad if I block them out to hear my games better.


http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getp...hp/masterid=4708822/search=dt880/skd=1

$235.80 at www.bhphotovideo.com

--

Here's some reviews of the DT880

http://www.headphonereviews.org/headpho...ESSID=a2257a6b9224e7fbff6ce3debc383a13
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25952
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/beyer/dt880.html

--

Below is my thread concerning which amp I should use with the . Head-fi.org has vast and in-depth information on a large variety of
headphones.

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=148873

--

This thread has suggested headphones for gaming

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147274&page=1&pp=20

******

$

I've been buying computer hardware from newegg.com for a long time(since 2001). Fortunately, I came across tomshardware.com. Just to give
you an idea of how fortunate I am, I calculated the total cost of the exact same hardware available from both tomshardware.com's search guide and
newegg.com, in early September of this year. The total from tomshardware.com was $196.82 less than newegg.com's total. lol!

******

I would like to thank the guys at techreport.com/forum System Builders Anonymous forum for all the help they provided in helping me shape this gaming
system to what it is today. Thank you!

 

[Meuge]

I like the EPoX board more than DFI... but that's details.

I like the setup overall, but I think you're spending waaaaay to much on the sound card. For audio quality, Creative is not the place to go to. If you MUST have EAX, then just get an Audigy2 for cheap... X-Fi is a huge waste of money.

Also, I don't quite agree with your choice of hard drive. I think there is better to be had.

 

[fire400]

this is funny, because if you are going to toss that money into a system, why not just get a GTX as opposed to a GT video card?

It would be so much easier if you just ordered everything from the same website, wouldn't it? Unless ofcourse there is something specific you wanted, then yeah go for it.

I sure hope you're using a flat panel display, hell take over if you are going for a CRT with that kind of budget.

And one more thing, I like the X-fi music card, very pretty.

 

[JEDIYoda]

also the most frames you will get in quake4 is 60 fps! You will get no better fps.
There is no crack or hack to achieve any better than 60fps!!
The game limits the amount of fps you can achieve!

 

[Mogadon]

You got a good set of speakers to go with that X-Fi, logitech make some sweet 5.1 systems for 50bucks upwards.

From a gaming perspective a goood mouse is important, again logitech make some sweet wireless ones (might want to consider one of their keyboards too, they have good combo deals) or a Razer Diamondback/Salamander ... it's presonal preference as to which mouse is a better gaming mouse, personally I like the Razer.

Rest of it looks good.

By the way Toms Hardware doesn't have many friends around these forums ... .

 

[potato28]

Also FEAR is a system stresser, but with those specs ull be good. And what about a case?

 

[denl82]

Hi guys

Hi Meuge
Thank you for your response I'm glad you like this setup That's a reallll good thing
At first, I wanted the Epox EP-9NPA+ motherboard, but after doing some more research, I decided that the DFI LP UT nf4 Ultra-D will give me a better grip on overclocking, once I brushed up on its bios options etc That's why I'm going for the Ultra-D

Do you have experience with the x-fi xtrememusic sound card? I've read many reviews of the x-fi xtrememusic sound card that all say it's a worthy card to buy. Here's some quotes.

"However, the X-Fi XtremeMusic can be had for as little as $110 online. At that price, it's certainly affordable, although still more expensive than a $65 Audigy2 ZS or $80 Revolution 7.1. We think the premium is justified in both cases."

-techreport.com

"Overall, it is hard to find fault with the performance of the X-Fi XtremeMusic. The card performed flawlessly and offered exceptional audio performance in nearly every situation we presented...if you have the money to spend, you'd be doing your ears and your gaming experience a favor by purchasing any soundcard based on the new X-Fi chipset."

-hothardware.com

"If sound is important to you, by all means, invest in the X-Fi line. If you don?t hear the difference between an AM radio and a live performance, stick to the on-board solutions."

-overclockersonline.com

If you have first hand experience with the x-fi xtrememusic sound card, or any x-fi sound card in general, I would love to hear a detailed description of how they sound to you.

Also, what hard drives do you recommend for me to use in this system?

Hey fire400
I concluded that buying a 7800 GT for roughly $100 less avg. than the 7800 GTX will be well worth the buy. As one can see in the benchmarks below, the 7800 GT often performs 3-10 fps below the GTX. For the price/performance ratio, I couldn't find something better than the 7800 GT to fit in my $1600 budget

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/evg...ce_7800_gt_co_edition_review/page8.asp

Originally posted by: fire400
It would be so much easier if you just ordered everything from the same website, wouldn't it? Unless ofcourse there is something specific you wanted, then yeah go for it.

I rather save whatever money I can to stay within my budget and use this leftover money to buy other things. To show you my my logic: Everything I have listed in my original post, from newegg.com, will cost $1,704.93. That's $160.52 more than what it will cost me buying from different stores. lol. If I buy everything from mwave.com (accept the OCZ Powerstream 520w, which they don't sell, but I will add its cost into mwave's total), the total is $1567.14, $22.73 more than the total from tomshardware.com. I rather spend extra effort buying 4 components from 2 stores and 5 components from 5 individual stores, to spend any extra money left on the other necessary things, like games, Artic Silver 5, tools to build the computer, and dvd media to transfer my stuff from this computer to the new computer

Originally posted by: fire400
sure hope you're using a flat panel display, hell take over if you are going for a CRT with that kind of budget.

LOL, what do you mean? lol;p I'm using a 17 inch crt monitor;p I have a question. My monitor has a max refresh rate of 75 hz. Do you or anyone know if I will get more or less fps? I'm accustomed to seeing benchmark setups using video cards displaying with a 85 hz refresh rate;p If anything, I think I should get more fps with a 75 hz refresh rate

Hey JEDIYoda
I came across a command for unlocking Quake 4's fps cap, but I do not have it right now. The benchmark in the link below shows that it is possible to get over 60 fps in a Quake 4 timedemo.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/quake_4_cpu_performance/page3.asp

I will find out how my computer performs in Quake 4 once I run a timedemo

Hi Mogadon
I have a Logitech mx518 mouse, but I don't like it too much--wait, I love it. The problem is, despite all the dpi settings I can use with this mouse, my mx518 is never accurate or even ultra accurate like I was made to believe. For instance, if I move the mouse diagonally in desktop, lets say, downwards, it would move the cursor down, then left, then down, then left, in L shapes, instead of one straight diagonal line. Grr lol. Also, if I blow up a picture in Microsoft Paint and try to edit it with my mouse, the mouse skips crazy pixels, and I'm unable to edit correctly. Irritating. Hehe. O well, I've seen it perform super accurately in Enemy Territory, where none of these problems exsist, so I think it's not the mouse's faults, but Windows 2k Pro's Also, this mouse feels soooooooooo goooooood in my hands, it's amazing.

Why doesn't tomshardware.com have many friends around here? ;p

Originally posted by: Mogadon
Rest of it looks good.

Thank you


Hi Potator28
True, F.E.A.R has been said to be one of the most taxing games for modern hardware today. LOL. Can't we just get 10x technological leaps with hardware and just get it over with? I don't remember the name of my case, but it's pretty well built, and has a motherboard tray that I can take out Thank you for affirming that the hardware I chose will be good for my needs Very reassuring

Thank you for your responses guys, they are MUCH appreciated Thank you a lot! Have a nice day guys

 

[d2arcturus]

That RAM is a huge waste of money. Go Corsair or OCZ value.

Forget that Thermaltake for cooling, go XP-90 with Panaflo, my X2 3800+ doesn't break 32C under load OCed to 2400MHz.

Quick and dirty A64 clocking guide.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Mogadon
logitech make some sweet 5.1 systems for 50bucks upwards.

OY...!
________

I prefer the AKGs... I find that AKG headphones have a flatter response and sound more natural, without emphasizing the bass or treble too much (which often happens when headphones struggle). I have a pair of AKG-240s running off a Samson amp... and they resolve detail as well as my $7000 stereo setup.

 

[Wentelteefje]

Hmm, your system should "do fine"... Poor games...

 

[Ike0069]

I'd stay away from the DFI Ultra-d. Not a very stable board, and is extremely picky about RAM. So do yourself a favor and go witht he Epox or MSI NF4 boards and 2GB's Value RAM. Take the savings from the RAM and upgrade to a GTX.

 

[Wentelteefje]

MSI all the way, damn I'm happy with mine... Very solid overclocker as well...

 

[denl82]

Hi Guys

Hi d2arcturus

Why is that ram a huge waste? As far as I know, it will allow me to overclock the x2 3800+ to 2.5 ghz from 2.0 ghz easily. That's exactly what I want. Also, if you look at the benchmark in the link below, you'll see that the Big TT is no slouch And for the price, I think it's a better deal than getting a heatsink that costs about the same price as the Big TT, then having to endure the price of buying a fan to put on the heatsink

http://www.3dxtreme.net/index.php?id=ttbigtyphoon4

Thank you for the overclocking guide! Thank you

Hey meuge

Thank you for your suggestion
I'm pretty set on deciding between the DT880 or the SA5000, which are both very hi-fi from what I've read. Here are some links to reviews of the DT880.

http://members.cox.net/yrogerg/headphones/DT880%20review%20rev0.pdf
http://www.headphonereviews.org/headpho...ESSID=c1dd259786ac38c8dc7a0df3723b2bdb

Hey Wentelteefje

"Poor games"? LOL I HOPE SO! lol;p Nah for real, I hope to get decent ( decent to me means steadily above 80 fps) performance in today's l33t games, like F.E.A.R, Quake 4, and Battlefield 2. If I get anywhere as close to "Poor Games" as you make it seem I will, it'll be money well spent


The motherboard I want has great reviews everywhere

Thank you for your respone

Thank you for your heads-up Ike0069

I'll do some research and go on dfi-street.com to see what compatibility issues I should pay attention to. Also, I would like to add that in the link below, the reviewers use the same motherboard and cpu that I want to test the the Corsair 2GB PC4000 TWINX20484000PT, and they seem to have no problems with this specific setup. So I'm going to guess that the DFI LP UT nf4 Ultra-D doesn't have any immediate problems with the Corsair 2GB PC4000 TWINX20484000PT. Hopefully not, at least.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/268/5/

Tbh, I don't think the 7800 GTX is worth buying unless I had a lot of money to spend on one hardware component. As it is right now, I have a reasonable amount of money to spend, with the job of making sure I spend the money on equally high quality products to build one balanced hi-end computer. The GTX not only will have me spending more than my budget allows, if I buy it--but it also performs only a few fps ahead of the 7800 gt in today's games. The benchmark in the link below shows exactly this scenario.

http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=m...index&req=viewarticle&artid=191&page=3

I rather save $100 to get a 7800 GT over the GTX, and spend the money on other high quality hardware, than sacrafice the computer's overall quality to get a GTX, which will only provide little more than 10 fps--at best--more than the 7800 GT


Thank you for your responses guys I really appreciate your help
Have a beautiful night guys!

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: Ike0069
I'd stay away from the DFI Ultra-d. Not a very stable board, and is extremely picky about RAM. So do yourself a favor and go witht he Epox or MSI NF4 boards and 2GB's Value RAM. Take the savings from the RAM and upgrade to a GTX.

I'm not sure where to start with that comment. As one of the most popular (if not THE most) overclocking motherboard that is praised for it's high HTT as well as stability your comment seems... well... uninformed. I have no personal experience with this board but aside from the new Asus deluxe I don't see any board more reccomended on these boards.

It is true that is can be somewhat picky with ram but not "extermely" as you say. People run this board with Corsair, OCZ, Patriot, G.Skill, and Mushkin ram with almost no problems what so ever.

Also, the 7800Gt CO is actually as powerful as a stock speed GTX but at $50-100 less in price so I'm not sure what he would really gain there. Personally I think the rig looks great and good choice on the HDD. That is one of the fastest and quietest SATA II drives out right now. (at least according to storage review).

-spike

 

[Googer]

The answer is simple, if you want high frame rates buy the most expensive stuff that you can find. But seriously I would recomend you ditch the 2.0 GHz Dual core in favor of a 1MB San Diego 2.4GHz or faster CPU. Going with dual core will only hurt gaming performance. It will be several years (3 1/2 +) before any game maker will ever even consider publishing a game that recommends a dual cpu system; even by then single processor systems should still be supported by 90% of the titles out there. Also in 3 years Dual core CPU's for socket 939 will be cheap and abundant, I suspect that you will be able to find an Athlon X2 4800 or 5000+ (if they make a 5k+) for around $200 or less. Go single core now and when you need it dual core will be very cheap.

Substtutions for X2:


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103593

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103529

Even AMD admits that single core CPU's are the gamers processor of choice

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: Googer
The answer is simple, if you want high frame rates buy the most expensive stuff that you can find. But seriously I would recomend you ditch the 2.0 GHz Dual core in favor of a 1MB San Diego 2.4GHz or faster CPU. Going with dual core will only hurt gaming performance. It will be several years (3 1/2 +) before any game maker will ever even consider publishing a game that recommends a dual cpu system; even by then single processor systems should still be supported by 90% of the titles out there. Also in 3 years Dual core CPU's for socket 939 will be cheap and abundant, I suspect that you will be able to find an Athlon X2 4800 or 5000+ (if they make a 5k+) for around $200 or less. Go single core now and when you need it dual core will be very cheap.

Substtutions for X2:


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103593

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103529

Even AMD admits that single core CPU's are the gamers processor of choice

While you are essentialy correct that $ for $ you can get a more powerful single core CPU over dual core you are incorrect with your gaming information. According to several sources, the makers of Oblivian are using a dual core setup as their high end test bed and have included SMP support in this game. With that boost a dual core CPU will be faster than a comparably priced single core and that is on a game just months away from release, not years. While makers will probably not reccomend a dual core for at least a year the benefits are definitly coming in the near future.

Also, if you do ANY multitasking then a dual core is a better choice. Even in my case a dual core would benefit as when I play games I have my virus scanner, torrent program, and temp monitors going in the background. This minor multitasking can be helped by the second core, not to mention the drivers from nVidia and soon ATI that use the second core while gaming now (though the difference is minor).

If you wanted the absolute fastest gaming rig for the money than a single core will be the best choice. If you want slightly slower (or faster if you get a operton DC that overclocks well) but want the ability to multi-task as well as play better in new games coming out then the DC is the best choice.

-spike

EDIT** BTW, I paid less ($299) for my opteron 165 dual core than the SD listed ($335) and the avg overclock has been from 2.4-2.6 with these cpu's. If I can even achieve a 2.4 I have matched the SD but have a whole extra core, sounds pretty good huh

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Spike

Originally posted by: Googer


Even AMD admits that single core CPU's are the gamers processor of choice

While you are essentialy correct that $ for $ you can get a more powerful single core CPU over dual core you are incorrect with your gaming information. According to several sources, the makers of Oblivian are using a dual core setup as their high end test bed and have included SMP support in this game. With that boost a dual core CPU will be faster than a comparably priced single core and that is on a game just months away from release, not years. While makers will probably not reccomend a dual core for at least a year the benefits are definitly coming in the near future.

Also, if you do ANY multitasking then a dual core is a better choice. Even in my case a dual core would benefit as when I play games I have my virus scanner, torrent program, and temp monitors going in the background. This minor multitasking can be helped by the second core, not to mention the drivers from nVidia and soon ATI that use the second core while gaming now (though the difference is minor).

If you wanted the absolute fastest gaming rig for the money than a single core will be the best choice. If you want slightly slower (or faster if you get a operton DC that overclocks well) but want the ability to multi-task as well as play better in new games coming out then the DC is the best choice.

-spike

Spike,

You may be correct, but I am getting my estamations from years of experiance. On average it has in the past taken about three years for a given CPU to be listed on the minimum requirements label of any game or program. If you look at most packages from early to mid 2005 a vast majority of them listed a PIII 500-733 MHz processor as the minimum recomended CPU. Those CPU's are more than 5+ years old (1998-1999-ish). Recently around the release of battlefield 2 the minium requirements have begun to creep up to a slow 1.1 to 1.5GHz Pentium or equivallant, even those CPU's are more than 4 years old in most cases.

(Williamette P4's were first released around May of 2001)

So go single core and in three years even celerons will may possibly have dual cores. By then going from single to dual will be a super cheap upgrade.

 

[Spinne]

Hey,
I have an Xi-Fi Music in my rig and I can't say I've regretted dropping the moolah for it. It's a great card (and having gone from an Audigy2 ZX, I should know). Don't bother with PC speakers. Get a decent reciever and a good set of speakers. It gives you more flexibility in the future that way. Remember, speakers don't get outdated very quickly, so if you can splurge on a good set of floor speakers, do so by all means. If you want, I can point you towards good websites to do some research on speakers at.

Originally posted by: denl82
Hi guys

Hi Meuge
Thank you for your response I'm glad you like this setup That's a reallll good thing
At first, I wanted the Epox EP-9NPA+ motherboard, but after doing some more research, I decided that the DFI LP UT nf4 Ultra-D will give me a better grip on overclocking, once I brushed up on its bios options etc That's why I'm going for the Ultra-D

Do you have experience with the x-fi xtrememusic sound card? I've read many reviews of the x-fi xtrememusic sound card that all say it's a worthy card to buy. Here's some quotes.

"However, the X-Fi XtremeMusic can be had for as little as $110 online. At that price, it's certainly affordable, although still more expensive than a $65 Audigy2 ZS or $80 Revolution 7.1. We think the premium is justified in both cases."

-techreport.com

"Overall, it is hard to find fault with the performance of the X-Fi XtremeMusic. The card performed flawlessly and offered exceptional audio performance in nearly every situation we presented...if you have the money to spend, you'd be doing your ears and your gaming experience a favor by purchasing any soundcard based on the new X-Fi chipset."

-hothardware.com

"If sound is important to you, by all means, invest in the X-Fi line. If you don?t hear the difference between an AM radio and a live performance, stick to the on-board solutions."

-overclockersonline.com

If you have first hand experience with the x-fi xtrememusic sound card, or any x-fi sound card in general, I would love to hear a detailed description of how they sound to you.

Also, what hard drives do you recommend for me to use in this system?

Hey fire400
I concluded that buying a 7800 GT for roughly $100 less avg. than the 7800 GTX will be well worth the buy. As one can see in the benchmarks below, the 7800 GT often performs 3-10 fps below the GTX. For the price/performance ratio, I couldn't find something better than the 7800 GT to fit in my $1600 budget

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/evg...ce_7800_gt_co_edition_review/page8.asp

Originally posted by: fire400
It would be so much easier if you just ordered everything from the same website, wouldn't it? Unless ofcourse there is something specific you wanted, then yeah go for it.

I rather save whatever money I can to stay within my budget and use this leftover money to buy other things. To show you my my logic: Everything I have listed in my original post, from newegg.com, will cost $1,704.93. That's $160.52 more than what it will cost me buying from different stores. lol. If I buy everything from mwave.com (accept the OCZ Powerstream 520w, which they don't sell, but I will add its cost into mwave's total), the total is $1567.14, $22.73 more than the total from tomshardware.com. I rather spend extra effort buying 4 components from 2 stores and 5 components from 5 individual stores, to spend any extra money left on the other necessary things, like games, Artic Silver 5, tools to build the computer, and dvd media to transfer my stuff from this computer to the new computer

Originally posted by: fire400
sure hope you're using a flat panel display, hell take over if you are going for a CRT with that kind of budget.

LOL, what do you mean? lol;p I'm using a 17 inch crt monitor;p I have a question. My monitor has a max refresh rate of 75 hz. Do you or anyone know if I will get more or less fps? I'm accustomed to seeing benchmark setups using video cards displaying with a 85 hz refresh rate;p If anything, I think I should get more fps with a 75 hz refresh rate

Hey JEDIYoda
I came across a command for unlocking Quake 4's fps cap, but I do not have it right now. The benchmark in the link below shows how it is possible to get over 60 fps in a Quake 4 timedemo.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/quake_4_cpu_performance/page3.asp

I will find out how my computer performs in Quake 4 once I run a timedemo

Hi Mogadon
I have a Logitech mx518 mouse, but I don't like it too much--wait, I love it. The problem is, despite all the dpi settings I can use with this mouse, my mx518 is never accurate or even ultra accurate like I was made to believe. For instance, if I move the mouse diagonally in desktop, lets say, downwards, it would move the cursor down, then left, then down, then left, in L shapes, instead of one straight diagonal line. Grr lol. Also, if I blow up a picture in Microsoft Paint and try to edit it with my mouse, the mouse skips crazy pixels, and I'm unable to edit correctly. Irritating. Hehe. O well, I've seen it perform super accurately in Enemy Territory, where none of these problems exsist, so I think it's not the mouse's faults, but Windows 2k Pro's Also, this mouse feels soooooooooo goooooood in my hands, it's amazing.

Why doesn't tomshardware.com have many friends around here? ;p

Originally posted by: Mogadon
Rest of it looks good.

Thank you


Hi Potator28
True, F.E.A.R has been said to be one of the most taxing games for modern hardware today. LOL. Can't we just get 10x technological leaps with hardware and just get it over with? I don't remember the name of my case, but it's pretty well built, and has a motherboard tray that I can take out Thank you for affirming that the hardware I chose will be good for my needs Very reassuring

Thank you for your responses guys, they are MUCH appreciated Thank you a lot! Have a nice day guys

 

[Ike0069]

Originally posted by: Spike

I'm not sure where to start with that comment. As one of the most popular (if not THE most) overclocking motherboard that is praised for it's high HTT as well as stability your comment seems... well... uninformed. I have no personal experience with this board but aside from the new Asus deluxe I don't see any board more reccomended on these boards.

It is true that is can be somewhat picky with ram but not "extermely" as you say. People run this board with Corsair, OCZ, Patriot, G.Skill, and Mushkin ram with almost no problems what so ever.

-spike

Well, from everything that I've read, the DFI has more problems than any other NF4 board around. Perusing the MB forum I still see DFI stability and RAm incompatabilitly issues frequently. Looking over the DFIstreet forums and it is full of problems that that seem unfixable.
Now I'm not saying that 50% of the Ultra-d's out there are having constant problems. It's much less than that. But IMO it just seems like the problems are still way too common. And the term "extremely picky" may seem to strong for you, but I can't ever remember hearing of a board with so many complaints about RAM issues. It is my belief that it's RAM incompatability issues makes this board one to stay away from, no matter what positives it has. Just reading thru the DFIstreet forums should tell you that.

So my comment definitley was not an uninformed comment. You may not agree with it, and I do know that there are many very happy Ultra-d owners. But for me, there are some boards that still OC very well (I do agree that the DFI is the current king of OC'ing AMD boards) while not coming with the "issues" that the DFI has.

 

[Arcanedeath]

Most of the DFI memory compatiblity issues can be laid at earily bioses and setting the ram timings incorrectly, as long as you have the proper ram timings and voltage just about any ram should work fine w/ the DFI board, heck it even has memtest built right into the bios so you can verify if theirs a ram issue or not.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: denl82
Hi Guys

Hey meuge[/b]

Thank you for your suggestion
I'm pretty set on deciding between the DT880 or the SA5000, which are both very hi-fi from what I've read. Here are some links to reviews of the DT880.

http://members.cox.net/yrogerg/headphones/DT880%20review%20rev0.pdf
http://www.headphonereviews.org/headpho...ESSID=c1dd259786ac38c8dc7a0df3723b2bdb

Those do look like nice headphones. I haven't had a chance to audition them, so I can't judge them... I just advise you to listen to them before you buy them (as you should do with any audio equipment).

As far as amps are concerned, I find that $130 is too much of a middle ground for headphone amps. It's not quite high enough to get something in the audiophile range, and too high for hi-end consumer amps.

So you may want to consider saving some money and going with a pro amp. They work really nicely for headphones... and cost <$75 (my Samson that I got at SamAsh).

 

[Stealth4]

how is 100 fps even possible since monitors refresh at 60-80 Hz? Are there monitors that refresh faster then 100fps? if not then the max fps must be equal to the monitor refresh rate.

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: Googer

Spike,

You may be correct, but I am getting my estamations from years of experiance. On average it has in the past taken about three years for a given CPU to be listed on the minimum requirements label of any game or program. If you look at most packages from early to mid 2005 a vast majority of them listed a PIII 500-733 MHz processor as the minimum recomended CPU. Those CPU's are more than 5+ years old (1998-1999-ish). Recently around the release of battlefield 2 the minium requirements have begun to creep up to a slow 1.1 to 1.5GHz Pentium or equivallant, even those CPU's are more than 4 years old in most cases.

(Williamette P4's were first released around May of 2001)

So go single core and in three years even celerons will may possibly have dual cores. By then going from single to dual will be a super cheap upgrade.

While I agree with you on min sys requirements, who the heck trys to play games on min sys requirements? That is why game makers starting putting min and reccomended requirements. The min is just what it says, the least you need to make the game run at the lowest of all settings.

Here are FEAR's min sys requirements. It lists a P4 1.7 as the min cpu. Ever try and run FEAR with a 1.7 P4? My AXP 3200+ with a 6800GT @ ultra speeds could barely handle the game at 1024x768 let alone a stone age 1.7 Regardless of what the min says you need a up to date CPU to play any modern games.

That being said the average user will see a benefit of dual core over single. If your ENTIRE focus is games then a single core CPU is the best bang for the buck but that window is shrinking, especially with the Opteron DC chips available. With AMD releasing a DC FX chip in the near future, even they are showing that for gaming DC is the best choice.

I won't argue with anyone who decided to get a single core A64 for the time being. Those older venice 3000+ CPU's for $130 where killer and could oc way high making them a REALLY fast cpu for pretty darn cheap. However, if someone has the money to go for a DC right now why not? You get way better multi-tasking as well as a freaking fast CPU for single thread apps.

I am not trying to be annoying or anything just stating the reasons why I and many others chose a DC. I don't think min requirements is a real reason to choose a CPU and the fact that games are being released within monthes with SMP support and current video drivers use the second core tells me that DC is the way to go. As with ALL computer components waiting always saves you money but if you are building a gaming rig right now then DC seems like the best choice.

-spike

 

[Spike]

Originally posted by: Ike0069
Well, from everything that I've read, the DFI has more problems than any other NF4 board around. Perusing the MB forum I still see DFI stability and RAm incompatabilitly issues frequently. Looking over the DFIstreet forums and it is full of problems that that seem unfixable.
Now I'm not saying that 50% of the Ultra-d's out there are having constant problems. It's much less than that. But IMO it just seems like the problems are still way too common. And the term "extremely picky" may seem to strong for you, but I can't ever remember hearing of a board with so many complaints about RAM issues. It is my belief that it's RAM incompatability issues makes this board one to stay away from, no matter what positives it has. Just reading thru the DFIstreet forums should tell you that.

So my comment definitley was not an uninformed comment. You may not agree with it, and I do know that there are many very happy Ultra-d owners. But for me, there are some boards that still OC very well (I do agree that the DFI is the current king of OC'ing AMD boards) while not coming with the "issues" that the DFI has.

I guess my stance is that when something is more popular you hear about more problems with it as there are more people who have it. The ram is the only "issue" I have ever heard of but it is far from a big deal and far from unique. I have had boards from ECS, Abit, Epox, and Gigabyte that all had issues with certain brands of ram. Ram would work in one machine and not in another and this usually came down to the mobo. That is not to say any of those companies make bad boards, just that there are issues with all boards.

Personally I look forward to playing with my DFI Ultra-D. But rest assured that if I have any problems I will come here looking for help and you can laugh at me then

-spike

 

[denl82]

Hi Guys!
Thanks for the responses, I really appreciate them

Hi Googer!
Thank you for your response!
As Spike has said, I feel the dual core x2 3800+ processor is a wise buy. For instance, my decision to get the x2 3800+ instead of the 4000+ San Diego was made when I saw benchmarks that are best summarized by what xbitlabs.com concludes:

It is true: you don?t need a high-end processor for real gaming with realistic settings and high image quality. The gaming performance will still be limited by the graphics card. The recommended system requirements mentioned by all the game developers are absolutely correct. Do not be surprised that the game developers mention Pentium 4 3GHz+ and Athlon 64 2GHz+ processors as the minimum suitable CPUs for comfortable gameplay, even though today we can get 3.8GHz Intel CPUs and 2.8GHz AMD CPUs easily.

This can also be seen in the graphs found in the link below, where a FX-57 single core processor produces two more fps than the x2 3800+ dc processor, in Battlefield 2.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/cpu-games2_3.html

Also, Raven and ID have made efforts to adapt Quake 4 to dual core processors in their latest game update. You can find more about it here:

http://www.idsoftware.com/

Lastly, I plan to buy ram that will allow me to overclock the x2 3800+ above the 4000+ Sandy's clock speed, so I will get approximately better gaming performance than 4000+'s, and have dual-core processing!

Thank you for your response Googer! Have a great day!

Hi Spinne!
Thank you for your response
I couldn't ask something better than someone who has experience with both the Audigy 2 ZS and the x-fi xtrememusic sound card! I'm very glad to know that you believe the x-fi is a better card, as many reviews of this sound card also reflect this.

I do not plan on using speakers, but I will use my Koss r80 headphones for the first month that I have my new computer, then a BeyerDynamic DT880 headphones when I buy them in February. The DT880 with the x-fi sound card should be a very very nice setup
Thank you for your response Spinne! Have a nice day!

Hi Ike0069!
Thank you for your response!
Similiar to what Arcanedeath has mentioned, I believe that many of the issues you've mentioned are caused by the Ultra-D's shear amount of bios tweaks. I am willing to take the chance with the Corsair 2GB PC4000 and LP UT NF4 Ultra-D combination. I DO hope that I don't run into any unfixable problems, though,
Thank you for your response Ike0069! Have a great day!

Hi Arcanedeath!
The fact that DFI is working to bring valuable updates to their customers is great reassurance that by the time I buy my motherboard in Janruary, I will have no problems out of the ordinary
Thank you for your response! Have a nice day! lol ;P

Hi Meuge!
Thank you for your response!
I definitely feel your advice, as I am willing to save money on an amp, as long as I can use a dc power connector instead of batteries, since I use my computer "24/7" (ya, "24/7" ) and will not want to recharge or pay for batteries over and over again Originally, I never even wanted an amp for my headphones, but it seems that they are more than necessary as I learned about the requirements of hi-fi cans. I will definitely check out the Samsom
Have a nice day Meuge!

Hi Stealth4!
It's very possible to run games over 100 fps. LOL, in the Quake 2 community, it's common to see people(most likely old school peeps who came from the omg-wow!-this-is-opengl!/voodoo2 days, like me<--) bragging about how they get 700+ fps, in Q2, LOL. Have you tried turning off the v-sync lock in your Display Properties-->Settings-->Advance-->Video card-->.. settings? That's probably the only thing needed to have games' fps run above a monitors refresh rate, if the video card is powerful enough to push that
Thank you for your response Stealth4! Have a great day!

Hi Spike!
You've pretty much said everything I needed to say about getting a dual core over a single core, lol

Originally posted by: Spike
Personally I think the rig looks great and good choice on the HDD.

Thank you! That's the best thing I can hear right now I think

Thank you for your participation in my thread! It's Very much appreciated!

Thank you guys for responding to my posts; your responses keep me well informed about what I need to do to build a great gaming system! Your help is very welcomed and appreciated! Thank you!
Enjoy your night guys