Q9550 stock, 1.17vcore, idling warm

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Q9550 stock, 1.17vcore, idling warm on custom h20:

#0 = 35c
#1 = 35c
#2 = 37c
#3 = 37c

my Q9650 on this h20 rig use to run 32, 32, 33, 33...

ambients are 78*f

my air cooled Q9650 machine is running 35,35,36,36

 

[aigomorla]

without a coolant test, cant really tell you whats off... but ur never suposed to debug with idle to begin with.

What are the load temps?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

What load test? LinX etc.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Just seen this stating "Intel®Core?2 Quad processor Q9000 and Q8000 series100°C" is the max temps? Am I reading this right? My grammar has been a little off lately...

EDIT: looks like that is an old post...

i never really understood that tjmax problem.. Why is there a formula to tell me what the max is when in the first place XX*c is the max?

EDIT2: LinX can heat things up to 70*c in an air conditioned room. I am thinking the block needs to be lapped - could that be it? or the chip...

 

[Nickel020]

Idle temps are meaningless, the accuracy of the temps sensors at low temperatures ia abyssmal.

Read this:
http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/docs.php

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

"Abby... Abby what?"

"Abby Normal sir"

"Abby Normal?"

btw that's bogus

 

[daw123]

Stick it under 100% load BTRY using Intel Burn Test / Prime / LinX.

Idle temps count for shit. Its the load temps which are important.

If the load temps are high, then you need to have a look at numerous things:
Positioining of rad(s).
Airflow within the case (poor cable management)
Lots of 90 degree elbows
Anything else which can restrict flow within the loop
Types and number of rads on rad(s)
Location of water cooling components (such as pump, res and rad)
Crimped tubing
Pump matched to water block
Water block match to CPU
etc.

^ This is where you get Aigo involved

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

All I did was change out my Q9650 for the new quad and will hit 70*c under LinX at stock volts and speed. I think the HS on the chip needs to be lapped... I've read the EK Supreme Lite is slightly lapped .0007 er something to that affect. ... Maybe I'm not taking the ambients seriously... usually 78*c back here in this room...

EDIT: All I know is that it's a better clocker than the more expensive bigger brother with the 9 multi

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
All I did was change out my Q9650 for the new quad and will hit 70*c under LinX at stock volts and speed. I think the HS on the chip needs to be lapped... I've read the EK Supreme Lite is slightly lapped .0007 er something to that affect. ... Maybe I'm not taking the ambients seriously... usually 78*c back here in this room...

EDIT: All I know is that it's a better clocker than the more expensive bigger brother with the 9 multi

So the temps are worse with the 9550 than the 9650. That is odd.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

but the Q9550 OC's better on lower voltages.... strange huh... band sensors in the 9650?

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN

btw that's bogus

What is bogus? It's a known situation, ever since Core 2 duo was released, that idle temps are all over the place, but not exactly where they should be. On the 45nm chips, this issue gets even more serious, since there is no way you can find out what is your idle. So, stop measuring idle temps and concentrate on full load temps. And the link Nickel posted, it really explains the "Tjunction" theory very clearly.

 

[Ben90]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
"Abby... Abby what?"

"Abby Normal sir"

"Abby Normal?"

btw that's bogus

No actually he is right, intel even stated somewhere (don't ask for link i don't know where it is/don't care enough to go find it) that their sensors have issues ~50*C away from TJ Max

The sensors aren't meant for us to know what temperature the cores are, they are meant to throttle the core if it goes over TJ Max... As far as i recall, it is possible for different cores to have different TJ Max's, and since Intel doesn't publicly tell what that number is, the best we can do is just an educated guess

 

[Nickel020]

How can you guys say BTRY is wrong? He must obviously know more than we do because he has soo many posts /facepalm

And because he knows so much he has of course already figured out that his temps with the 9550 are worse because he needs to remount his cooler which is not seated properly or the TIM isn't applied properly.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I thought all that mattered was the reading from the start. Why would readings all over the place make up a total result where almost situation is different and not isolated to the same standards/specs e.g. same board, at idle, in the same case, same amount of fans blowing in the same temperature controlled room. Are people taking polls from others that are not taking into consideration those kinds of important variables, not to mention the surface areas of the HS&F or h20 block combined with the surface area of the chip? And people are saying the results from a sensor are wrong; we need to recalibrate the app? So someone like Real temp is saying they have got it right? I don't believe any of that shat.

 

[Nickel020]

So you think that the guy who created RealTemp does not know enough about the DTS sensors in Intel CPUs and that YOU know he's wrong. The guy is probably the single person that knows the most about these sensors outside of Intel...

But you obviously have already made up your mind and are not prepared to accept the advice of several people here who told you you're wrong.

 

[zagood]

Intel has publicly admitted that on 45nm chips, the farther away from TJMax the temperature is, the less accurate. Specifically with temperatures under 50c. My e5200, for instance, doesn't register any temperature below 37c on Core 0, and nothing below 32c on Core 1. What these guys are saying is that the minimum temperature value that your chip is reporting may be higher with the Q9550, but the ACTUAL idle temperature could be lower.

 

[aigomorla]

try a remount... but as daw said... theres gonna be a lot of debug that ur gonna need if u think something is off..

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Originally posted by: Nickel020
So you think that the guy who created RealTemp does not know enough about the DTS sensors in Intel CPUs and that YOU know he's wrong. The guy is probably the single person that knows the most about these sensors outside of Intel...

But you obviously have already made up your mind and are not prepared to accept the advice of several people here who told you you're wrong.

You are saying the sensors on the chips report inaccurate readings? And that are inconsistent with other 45nm chips; specifically quads? And that when they get above a certain degree they are more accurate!? seriously

But didn't someone say Intel never gave a max temp? So calibrating a distance would also be inaccurate because of no relevant starting point...

I don't know and I don't want to rely on someones assumptions no matter what app they are trying to promote. All I know is that the chip does 4Ghz under Intel's VOLTAGE specs for a Yorkfield and it doesn't get above 55*c and is stable. That's good enough for me. I am not concerned anymore with the idle temps as the aforementioned info.

Thanks Aigo, I did try the remount and re-application of paste. The readings seem consistent between the re-seats. But I'm cool now, its great with where its at so I'm gonna leave my little bit of concern about the idle temps.

BTW What is the best CPU 1366 Block? The KL 350?

Thanks for the input daw! Hows your rig?

Thanks all for your help

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN


You are saying the sensors on the chips report inaccurate readings? And that are inconsistent with other 45nm chips; specifically quads? And that when they get above a certain degree they are more accurate!? seriously

"The issue that effects all of these sensors is slope error. That is when the data coming from these sensors moves at a different rate than the core temperature is changing at. The Calibration feature in RealTemp is used to compensate for sensors that move along different temperature curves and once again the Core i7 sensors seem to be greatly improved with only very minimal slope error in the normal temperature range.

The biggest problem is that the sensors used on the 45nm Core 2 Dual and Quad core processors can become saturated or can become stuck at lower temperatures. As your core temperature decreases, they might reach a temperature where they continue to report the exact same temperature even though your CPU continues to cool down. With a stuck sensor, there is nothing you can do about it and it prevents you from doing an accurate calibration of your temperature sensors.
"

So, this seems to explain the situation, apart from promoting a specific freeware application. This is why you have high idle temperatures on 45 nm Intel chips, even with water cooling systems. It's a fact, it has been proven so you have to admit it.

 

[zagood]

More information:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/...-specs,news-29460.html
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3251&p=4

And to address your specific situation:
http://www.overclock.net/intel...eratures-voltages.html
"TJ Max is an inherently unreliable and inaccurate method of measuring idle/low temperatures. Due to the way it was designed, the readings are so inaccurate under 50C that Intel says they can only be read as a number temperature below 50C. As the temperature approaches TJ Max, the precision increases and at TJ Max the temperature is considered to be 100% accurate. Because of this error at low temperatures, sub-ambient temperature/very high readings are sometimes given for idle temperatures. With the TJ Max method, your idle temperatures have no accuracy and therefore should be ignored. Under load, the temperatures become much more accurate and should be very carefully monitored.

"A good example of the inaccuracy can be shown on the Q6600 (G0) with a TJ Max of 90C. At 90C, it is perfectly accurate, but at 50C is becomes as accurate as plus or minus 10. Below 50C, the error grows even larger to the extent of plus or minus 30."

 

[Nickel020]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN


You are saying the sensors on the chips report inaccurate readings? And that are inconsistent with other 45nm chips; specifically quads? And that when they get above a certain degree they are more accurate!? seriously

EVERY program that reports core tempertures does it this way. The CPU only reports how many Kelvin the difference between teh current temp and the TJMax is. There is no way to report core temperarures without assuming a value for TJMax (or knowing what the real TJMax is of course).

But didn't someone say Intel never gave a max temp? So calibrating a distance would also be inaccurate because of no relevant starting point...

They never said that and they did release TJMax info for Core 2s some time ago.

I am not concerned anymore with the idle temps as the aforementioned info.

Good it might also help to know that the temperature sensors were never designed to give absolute temperature readings. Their main purpose is to protect the CPU from overheating. I.e. the CPU will throttle itself when the temperature reaches TJMax to prevent permanent damage.

BTW What is the best CPU 1366 Block? The KL 350?

The Heatkiller 3.0 is generally considered to be the ebst block around:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...howthread.php?t=224976

Some people consider the Koolance to be superior, but I have any believable tests that show this or discredit HESmealughs test.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN

Originally posted by: Nickel020
So you think that the guy who created RealTemp does not know enough about the DTS sensors in Intel CPUs and that YOU know he's wrong. The guy is probably the single person that knows the most about these sensors outside of Intel...

But you obviously have already made up your mind and are not prepared to accept the advice of several people here who told you you're wrong.

You are saying the sensors on the chips report inaccurate readings? And that are inconsistent with other 45nm chips; specifically quads? And that when they get above a certain degree they are more accurate!? seriously

But didn't someone say Intel never gave a max temp? So calibrating a distance would also be inaccurate because of no relevant starting point...

I don't know and I don't want to rely on someones assumptions no matter what app they are trying to promote. All I know is that the chip does 4Ghz under Intel's VOLTAGE specs for a Yorkfield and it doesn't get above 55*c and is stable. That's good enough for me. I am not concerned anymore with the idle temps as the aforementioned info.

Thanks Aigo, I did try the remount and re-application of paste. The readings seem consistent between the re-seats. But I'm cool now, its great with where its at so I'm gonna leave my little bit of concern about the idle temps.

BTW What is the best CPU 1366 Block? The KL 350?

Thanks for the input daw! Hows your rig?

Thanks all for your help

No problem. I haven't done anything to my rig in the last couple of months because I haven't had time.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

But Everytime I walk into TJ Maxx numbers are always low! LOL