q9450 faster virtual machine, what does it mean to me?

steve1616

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Feb 6, 2008
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Hi, I am new here and like a lot of people I am trying to decide whether to wait until march for the Q9450 or just get the Q6600. I saw that the new penryn technology is suppose to speed up virtual machine entry and exit time by 25 to 75 percent. My question is, what does this actually mean? Will I notice this in any real world applications? I use my computer for mapping with extremely high resolution imagery, video streaming and recording, and then just surfing the internet. Will I notice this virtual machine speed in any of this stuff that I do? Thanks in advance for any replies.

Steve
 

krnmastersgt

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2008
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Welcome to the AT forums :D
I don't think you'll really notice a difference with what you plan on using the machine for, frankly I'm not sure if you even need a quad-core for what you plan on doing. I know encoding software can utilize multiple cores but editing/recording software? If it can then like I said, won't be a difference you'll regret later on unless you're worried about heat and power consumption. And a virtual machine is something like an environment, where the software creates its own little space to run in that won't be affected by other apps, although it might negatively affect them. I'm not sure how your software runs so you might notice an actual difference with that specifically, but if you want to play it safe, the Q9450 will run faster than the Q6600 at stock speeds and costs the same/runs cooler/uses less energy, I'd wait for the 3-4 weeks :p
 

steve1616

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Feb 6, 2008
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I wanted to be safe with a quad core because I multitask so much, but I am not sure that it is needed either. I had definately thought about an E8400, but I get gun shy when my current pentium 4 (3.0 GHz) freezes when I have my mapping program open, and then just 4 internet screens open for different mapping websites. The CPU works at 100 % when I am scaled out on high resolution imagery and I want to refresh or move the map at all. If I map for too long, my computer gets hot and freezes up on me. Like I said, I almost purchase the E8400, and maybe I still will, but I wanted a quad core just to be safe.

Thanks,

Steve
 

krnmastersgt

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2008
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Well when you multi-task it's not only the cpu that works, having multiple windows open stresses the ram more, get plenty of ram I suppose since I assume those apps are memory hungry, and up to you if you want to play it safe, in terms of cpu heavy apps the quads always beat down the dual-cores when all 4 cores can be utilized, still I suggest getting an E8400 or the Q9450, hard decision I suppose but wouldn't hurt to ask someone in that line of work for what they use.
 

steve1616

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Feb 6, 2008
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Thanks for the advise. I could probably benefit from the extra RAM more than anything. My program calls for a minimum of 2 GB RAM by itself. I currently only have 512 MB because that is what my computer came with. This might be the reason that it takes 5-10 seconds for my screen to refresh after I move imagery. It makes a 20 minute job turn into 2 hours. I have also noticed according to task manager that the program only takes a lot of processor power when I am actually moving the image. If one core is dedicated to this program, the other would run everything else without a problem. The E8400 might be the best way to go for me. I have also heard of the quad core CPU's dominating benchmarks, but people have said that they will also load two cores really hard before ever utilizing the other 2 in real world multitasking situations. If this is indeed true, the E8400 becomes a clear winner for me.

Thanks,

Steve
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
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What guest OS are you planning to install? I might have a wonderful solution for you depending on what OS/apps you're using for guest OS(es).

Edit: Nevermind. I thought you have Virtual PC or VMWare installed and testing things out on virtual OS. In any case, I would advise 100% for quads when it comes to virtualization. And 64-bit OS, 4GB+ RAM.
 

steve1616

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Feb 6, 2008
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I was planning to install Window Vista 64 bit. I wanted the 64 bit for the exta RAM. I initially wanted 8 GB of RAM, but Corsair said that they wouldn't recommend putting anything more than 4 GB in because they said that the kits they sold would work great with each other, but that the 2 of the (2X2) (4 memory slots) weren't designed to work with each other.
 

krnmastersgt

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Jan 10, 2008
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It's not that they won't work, the latencies just go up a bit when you have sticks in all 4 dimm slots, but I'm assuming latency isn't an issue with you since you don't plan on gaming with this machine, and PeteRoy, I assume you're talking about something like VMWare? A lot of things are classified as virtual machines, in any case more ram + E8400 or Q9450 is definitely a winner :D
 

themisfit610

Golden Member
Apr 16, 2006
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If you're virtualizing, and running Vista x64, get as much RAM as you can. Max it out. 8 gigs of ram is stupid cheap, and the latency penalty is _literally_ nonexistant in real world performance. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Bring on multicore virtualization!
 

krnmastersgt

Platinum Member
Jan 10, 2008
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Well he isn't actually running any VMs as far as I can tell but themisfit is right, go for the 8 gigs and be glad you got it when you multi task :D
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
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I'd call a cautious BS on Corsair's advice. It's understandable, though, the fear of on-going RMA would be huge on their part. I had no-name generic DDR2-667 2GB sticks (they're not even paired) and used 4 of them @DDR2-800/CL4 without an issue.

http://img522.imageshack.us/my...?image=dsc01663xc8.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my...mage=superfetchqt0.png

I even successfully mixed up modules based on different ICs. (Micron IC + Infineon IC)

Said that, what Corsair is afraid of is probably whether the chipset/board you have is capable of handling 8GB properly. The amount of stress is huge on the NB and FSB, and many Intel boards are surprisingly bad at handling 8GB. Especially the ones meant for overclocking. If you're not overclocking, the chance of successful 8GB will be a lot better.

If you're concerned, go with 2x2GB first then add more if needed. That's a lot safer than buying all 4 sticks then finding out that it just doesn't work.

P.S. I don't think you can install X64 as a guest OS in Virtual PC 2007? You meant Vista 64 as a 'host' OS, I assume?
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
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Originally posted by: krnmastersgt
It's not that they won't work, the latencies just go up a bit when you have sticks in all 4 dimm slots,
That might be true (latency) but it doesn't necessarily equal to less performance to have 4 sticks of RAM, due to interleaving. Depending on chipsets and usage models, 4 sticks can actually be faster than 2 sticks.

 

steve1616

Member
Feb 6, 2008
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Thank you guys for all of the great advice. You have made my decisions a lot easier. I might just buy the exta RAM now since there are huge rebates on it. Do you guys think that the standard P5K board would be a good one or the P5K deluxe WIFI? The deluxe WIFI board is a lot more expensive. Is there another brand just as good as Asus. I have noticed that most everyone uses Asus. I have seen good reviews on a MSI neo2 motherboard also. Do you guys think one board stands above the rest?

Thanks,

Steve
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: steve1616
I have noticed that most everyone uses Asus.

Who is this "everyone"? I've yet to see them. The most popular motherboards right now are the Gigabyte P35 series (by far), and the Abit IP-35 series. Asus makes nice boards, though. If you're planning on overclocking a quad very far, I'd definitely buy the P5K Deluxe over the non-Deluxe. But, if you're planning on overclocking a dual-core, or running a quad at or anywher near stock speeds, the non-Deluxe will work just fine.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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Originally posted by: krnmastersgt
Well when you multi-task it's not only the cpu that works, having multiple windows open stresses the ram more, get plenty of ram

Yes.. cutting back on the RAM in order to pay for a faster or better processor is rarely a good idea.

 

QuixoticOne

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
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Well I do a lot of the same kinds of tasks as the originator of the thread.

I run two Q6600 based systems, both with 8GB RAM, both on ASUS P35 motherboards (P5K-Deluxe-WIFI; P5K-E-WIFI). Both have 8800 series graphics cards (8800GTX, 8800GT-512).

I would not for one MOMENT suggest doing anything BUT getting the Q9450 quad core CPU when it is out for $320 USD (or so), and ALSO getting 8GB DDR2-PC2-6400 RAM.

Honestly if you've outpaced the capacities of your current system, are doing serious memory / CPU heavy computations, and can spend the money, at the current performance / price of the Q9450 and 8GB RAM it's just incredibly attractive and PRACTICAL / USEFUL to get both.

The RAM selling price is basically right around the manufacturing cost of the parts due to the market glut of DDR2 RAM. It's as close to cheap / free as it is likely to get for years to come. And it makes a BIG difference as long as you have a 64 BIT OS like LINUX, SOLARIS, BSD UNIX, VISTA 64, XP PRO 64, etc.

The Quad Core CPUs are also INCREDIBLY good values for the performance they give; only a few months ago the Q6600 was selling quite well at over TWICE the current price, and the Q9450 will be at least 25% better in many cases for actual performance (SSE4, VM, better cache, better architecture).

Though not all SINGLE applications USE multi-core CPUs, don't let that fool you, if you're running the OS that is going to efficiently use one or two cores just for itself, even the most single threaded application will use one more core, and if you're running ANYTHING else like printing, a database, a web browser, etc. you'll make good use of another core or two.

And, frankly many of the better imaging / GIS / database / mapping type applications WILL take direct advantage of more than two cores already.

I see the smoothness, responsiveness, speed, and reliability benefits of running quad core + 8GB every day.


I have good things say about both the P5K-E-WIFI and the P5K-DELUXE-WIFI; I'd tend to suggest the P5K-DELUXE-WIFI with the Q9450 since you're more likely to be running at higher FSB speeds with the Q9450 or even one of the new E8xxx dual core CPUs if you overclock at all versus the lower FSBs / lower overclocks on the older generation of CPUs.
Thus the better heatsinking of the P5K Deluxe may be of benefit, though either mainboard should be a reliable choice for you.

I've installed VISTA 64 and LINUX X64 on these systems and things work with very few problems. I would not be strongly tempted to go with another OEM's motherboard. Some of the X38 chipset models may be reasonable considerations, I don't personally see that they're necessarily better than the P5K-Deluxe for most purposes.

You'll end up with a system that'll handle pretty much anything you can throw at it for 5+ years to come, and at a price less than what a high end dual-core 4GB system would have cost you 9 months ago.

I don't think that the VM advantages of the IOMMU equipped Q9450 and the various other new Wolfdale/Yorkfield dual/quad CPUs will substantially benefit you in the short term if you're not using VMWARE / VIRTUAL PC today. However I think it will become more of a prevalent benefit within the next couple of years as VMs become less specially orchestrated configurations and start to transparently be employed within the OS and within applications themselves. The new IOMMU/VM technology is MUCH better than the previous generation hardware since with it you can meaningfully virtualize the hardware peripherals as well as the software programs.