Well, I think that you should stick with the 45nm since it'll be hard to get an e6600 to ~4Ghz anyway. With the Yorkfields you get the same speed but at least it will be cooler and consume less.
Well, I think that you should stick with the 45nm since it'll be hard to get an e6600 to ~4Ghz anyway. With the Yorkfields you get the same speed but at least it will be cooler and consume less.
- Sep 28, 2005
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the EVGA's couldnt take the stress from a B3. i had to undergo 2 rma's because the boards would crap out after 4-5 months of wcging.
the last on got so bad that the board had a vdroop of almost .2 so i had to set it at 1.45 to run it at stock!
Now the P35 i have the ASUS P5K-E on my other crunch rig is starting to show some wear. The voltage needs to be adjusted now every 3-4months. Im looking at a replacement now as we speak. But basically its failing and giving me bad invalids where it would hold prime at for many many hours. It doesnt hold prime there anymore and i need a voltage increase.
I dont know if its the chip degrading or the board, but im guessing more on the board. Board is pushed to about 450x8.
425fsb ~ where i call the upper safe stress point. 450+ is stressing the board.
Oh these are quadcore experiences. I dont know about dualcores. But yeah, i totally understand now why people go server platforms and BSEL mod.
Trust me I feel your pain too. With 5 DS3L's here running Q6600 at 9x367 I was really hoping to snag an ungrade cycle on these systems with cheap Q9300 next year after Nehalem is out and driving Yorkfield prices down.
But I doubt very much I will be able to overclock the P35 on my DS3L's to the 440x7.5 territory needed to get the Q9300 to be performance equivalent to my Q6600 at 9x367.
So the upgrade I will end up doing most likely will involve a net future value (NFV) versus net present value (NPV) for reducing power consumption by going to Yorkfield versus sticking with my depreciating Kentsfield.
My 5 quad systems cost me almost exactly $75/month in added electricity bill...so $15/month per system. If a Yorkfield can give me same performance and reduce by 1/3 the system level power consumption then the question of upgrading can be reduced to a question of when will Q9300 be priced such that I can recover the invested NPV over the anticipated depreciated lifespan of the systems.
1/3*$15/month = $5/month potential savings. If lifetime is a very generous 3 years, I stand to recover NFV savings of: $5/month x 3 years x 12 months/year = $180
Technically in order to back-out the allowed net present cost to equate to this $180 net future cost I need to assume my equity (that I would spend on the Yorkfield) would earn something around 8%/annum rate-of-return (not excluding capital gain taxes).
But let's keep it simple. To zeroth-order it makes no sense for me to upgrade from Q6600 to Q9300 (or any other Yorkfield which doesn't deliver superior performance as an upgrade in my systems) until the price of said processor declines to $180.
That could take a while, a year at least before I can expect to start finding these things second-hand or in the discount bin when Nehalem has been out for a while.
Would a 400FSB be safe for the long term on a board like the Gigabyte DS3L? I'm thinking of maybe now going quad rather than dual (previously I was strongly thinking of an E8400), and just getting one of these Q9300's to around 3Ghz, which would be acheived via 7.5 x 400Mhz. Ideally I'd want to keep things for a while, so I wouldn't want to kill the motherboard in a couple of years. Also, would 800Mhz RAM be fine and what kind of divider/multiplier(?) would be needed?
My ambient room temp would never go any higher than 27C degrees in summer, and at the moment is sitting at a cool 16C degrees!
(if that info helps at all)
Thanks in advance.
My ambient room temp would never go any higher than 27C degrees in summer, and at the moment is sitting at a cool 16C degrees!
(if that info helps at all)Thanks in advance.
- Sep 28, 2005
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Originally posted by: A554SS1N
Would a 400FSB be safe for the long term on a board like the Gigabyte DS3L? I'm thinking of maybe now going quad rather than dual (previously I was strongly thinking of an E8400), and just getting one of these Q9300's to around 3Ghz, which would be acheived via 7.5 x 400Mhz. Ideally I'd want to keep things for a while, so I wouldn't want to kill the motherboard in a couple of years. Also, would 800Mhz RAM be fine and what kind of divider/multiplier(?) would be needed?
My ambient room temp would never go any higher than 27C degrees in summer, and at the moment is sitting at a cool 16C degrees!
Thanks in advance.
anything sub 415 is safe with good cooling.
YOU NEED TO TAKE TIME AND PREP A BOARD FOR HIGH STRESS:
HOW DO YOU PREP A BOARD?
Sorry i needed to make it clear that not a lot of people are preping boards for stress. Its real simple.
1. The first easy thing is to replace all that crap stock tim with fresh one. This is how a typical board will look like when you get it new:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0562.jpg
Its not just EVGA. ASUS does this too, cant blame them.
Clean that up and repalce it with fresh and clean application.
2. You need to put additional cooling on mosfet area. On the EVGA's the top mosfet sink didnt secure on tightly. Make sure its tightly fasten or those things will degrade and the board will die. [usually the more expensive the board, the less additional cooling it will require] Ie. DQ6
See how i have additional cooling on this IP35-E board Enzo Ramsinks + Alu ram sinks. However this board absolutely sucks. :
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0867.jpg
Finally, you need some decient flow over your board. Unless everything is watercooled, there are still things that need to be cooled down for stability.
Heres how i did my old EVGA:
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0554.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0552.jpg
It takes about 30 min to prep a board. Not a lot of work either, but long term gain is very much worth it.
But yeah im starting to think its the mosfet that give out on the board. They cant take a lot of voltage and heat for prolong periods of time.
Originally posted by: A554SS1N
Would a 400FSB be safe for the long term on a board like the Gigabyte DS3L? I'm thinking of maybe now going quad rather than dual (previously I was strongly thinking of an E8400), and just getting one of these Q9300's to around 3Ghz, which would be acheived via 7.5 x 400Mhz. Ideally I'd want to keep things for a while, so I wouldn't want to kill the motherboard in a couple of years. Also, would 800Mhz RAM be fine and what kind of divider/multiplier(?) would be needed?
My ambient room temp would never go any higher than 27C degrees in summer, and at the moment is sitting at a cool 16C degrees!
Thanks in advance.
In addition to what Aigo said above in response to your post I will add the following "data" regarding my specific experience with the DS3L.
I replaced the TIM under the stock NB and SB heatsinks. I used AS5 on one. TX-1 on another. Ceramique on a third. And TX-2 on yet another.
I also (yes this is silly) lapped the stock NB and SB heatsinks and then used TX-2 with that board.
The end result? All 5 DS3L boards top-out at around 367MHz FSB for me. This is with Q6600 and mild NB voltage bump. I lowered clock multiplier to confirm I was truly FSB limited and not CPU limited.
I am sure I could have pushed voltages to get higher FSB, but this seemed to be the sweet spot for my boards.
Now I did not go the extra mile, as Aigo nicely outlines, and replace the meager stock heatsinks with aftermarket heatsinks. I also did not add any extra cooling to the MOSFETs. I do have pretty decent airflow thru the case though, 2x120mm intake and 2x120mm fans on the exhaust.
Just to set your expectations for DS3L with moderate effort to "prep" for overclocking. Aigo recommendations are the way to go to get anywhere near 400MHz FSB on a DS3L in my opinion.
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lol which is a lot more then what people have. Most run there NB and mosfet passive.
But yeah... 450fsb is starting to show board wear really fast. I dont know if i should RMA it, or take it as a oops i broke it. :\
Settings are 450x8 3.6ghz on a G0 Q6600 Voltage is 1.46Vcore Had to push nb voltage a bit but NB is watercooled. Mosfets all replaced with Thermalright U2 solutions, but :\
should of picked up more DQ6's.
Thats one board i havent had any issues with. The DLX is also starting to show slight wear and everything on that is h2o cooled.
OH my boards and systems are loaded 100% of the time. So to the average user, 1 month uptime for me is probably 4-5 months uptime for you guys. For mark it would be around .8 months for my 1 month cuz he F@H's which is more strict on hardware.
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: A554SS1N
Would a 400FSB be safe for the long term on a board like the Gigabyte DS3L? I'm thinking of maybe now going quad rather than dual (previously I was strongly thinking of an E8400), and just getting one of these Q9300's to around 3Ghz, which would be acheived via 7.5 x 400Mhz. Ideally I'd want to keep things for a while, so I wouldn't want to kill the motherboard in a couple of years. Also, would 800Mhz RAM be fine and what kind of divider/multiplier(?) would be needed?
My ambient room temp would never go any higher than 27C degrees in summer, and at the moment is sitting at a cool 16C degrees!
Thanks in advance.
In addition to what Aigo said above in response to your post I will add the following "data" regarding my specific experience with the DS3L.
I replaced the TIM under the stock NB and SB heatsinks. I used AS5 on one. TX-1 on another. Ceramique on a third. And TX-2 on yet another.
I also (yes this is silly) lapped the stock NB and SB heatsinks and then used TX-2 with that board.
The end result? All 5 DS3L boards top-out at around 367MHz FSB for me. This is with Q6600 and mild NB voltage bump. I lowered clock multiplier to confirm I was truly FSB limited and not CPU limited.
I am sure I could have pushed voltages to get higher FSB, but this seemed to be the sweet spot for my boards.
Now I did not go the extra mile, as Aigo nicely outlines, and replace the meager stock heatsinks with aftermarket heatsinks. I also did not add any extra cooling to the MOSFETs. I do have pretty decent airflow thru the case though, 2x120mm intake and 2x120mm fans on the exhaust.
Just to set your expectations for DS3L with moderate effort to "prep" for overclocking. Aigo recommendations are the way to go to get anywhere near 400MHz FSB on a DS3L in my opinion.
See this is why i dont like cheap end boards anymore. I had a IP35-E which everyone was raving about... Oh nice overclocking, wonderful board.... Well i got one, and majorly pimped it out with the highest cooling gear and then.. <cry> okey... i need to think from a lower point.. yes its a nice board for low to middle end overclocking.
But its not a winner. Anyhow im just letting you guys know, you run the board at 450fsb non stop, your board is going to give out really fast.
And then expect JAG to come in and regulate you with his "I told you So".
excuse me now as i hide from him so i dont get butchered by that comment..
to the poster who said it would be nice if the 9450 could go for 400 at stock voltages, it can indeed. 1.235 volts as measured by cpu-z and bios (they match..that's nice for a change) and it will do 400 out of the box. tried 426 or 3408 at stock volts..will post, but not boot into windows. i took it to 1.3 volts (may not need that much but) and it easily is at 3408. this is on an abit ip-35 pro board.
) and it will do 400 out of the box. tried 426 or 3408 at stock volts..will post, but not boot into windows. i took it to 1.3 volts (may not need that much but) and it easily is at 3408. this is on an abit ip-35 pro board.
it will boot at 3520 (8 x 440) with a wee bit of voltage added beyond the cpu to the other options..but will not go 450 for me (3600)..post,but not a chance of going into windows..one time, it looked close but.. i need to watch the codes next time i play as it may well be the memory as i have 6400 but i'm only going to be so much of a guinea pig with this processor..and i don't want to bork windows and have to do another day worth of install.. specs on my system are:
q9450 b1 w/enzotech extreme cooler with stock fan/mx-2 paste (ps- this overclock as it only 700 rpm..i should have boosted up to 1200 as maybe i'm creating a heat issue?)
mushkin pc6400 (2 x 1 gig) at it's stock 4-5-4-11 timings.
500 watt silverstone element
7900gs oc
1 internal sata drive, 2 external sata drives
pioneer sata burner
3 hauppauge tuner cards
samsung printer
silverstone lcm 20 htpc box (black of course)
53 inch panasonic plasma
ABIT ip35-pro w/ 16.09 bios
q9450 b1 w/enzotech extreme cooler with stock fan/mx-2 paste (ps- this overclock as it only 700 rpm..i should have boosted up to 1200 as maybe i'm creating a heat issue?)
mushkin pc6400 (2 x 1 gig) at it's stock 4-5-4-11 timings.
500 watt silverstone element
7900gs oc
1 internal sata drive, 2 external sata drives
pioneer sata burner
3 hauppauge tuner cards
samsung printer
silverstone lcm 20 htpc box (black of course)
53 inch panasonic plasma
ABIT ip35-pro w/ 16.09 bios
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
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i wish i had faster memory to see if that maybe my issue..it was darn close to booting into windows at 3.6. plus, i realized after my cpu fan was set pretty low (700rpm) could have gone up to about 1200, 1300 with no noise..next time i believe 3.6 will be very possible with faster memory and better cooling at a decent voltage (1.3 or so).
ps- don't trust a gigabyte in the near future to boot the 45nm quad..in spite of having about 3 bioses since they were supposedly compatible, there was no way in hell it would post at all for me using f8, f9, f10 and f11 bioses on my p35-ds4..was very disappointed to see that..i love gigabyte but..my recommendation would be the abit (it will need a bios flash though) or asus pk 5 line of boards.
i believe 3.6 will be very possible with faster memory and better cooling at a decent voltage (1.3 or so).ps- don't trust a gigabyte in the near future to boot the 45nm quad..in spite of having about 3 bioses since they were supposedly compatible, there was no way in hell it would post at all for me using f8, f9, f10 and f11 bioses on my p35-ds4..was very disappointed to see that..i love gigabyte but..my recommendation would be the abit (it will need a bios flash though) or asus pk 5 line of boards.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
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Originally posted by: n7
Gotta love Intel for this.
We all knew we this was coming.
Now if we want serious clocking, we must shell out for the uber priced quads.
Not that this is news really...just now it's confirmation of what we knew to be coming.
That's just temporary. Remember when 285FSB was great and 300FSB was exceptional during P4 2.4C days? FSB will cease to exist with Nehalem and then it's a whole other world
VirtualLarry
No Lifer
- Aug 25, 2001
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Is it just the 450FSB that is killing the boards, or the voltages that you need to give it to run at those freqs stably?
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
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There are a lot of factors that could limit overclocking of your motherboards such as unnecessarily tight memory timings, an inferior power supply or even aggressive BIOS settings such as Turbo under Performance Level. IMO something else is the limiting factor in your overclocks and not a DS3L board. I can do 425FSB x 6 multiplier with my Q6600 just for kicks with a stock northbridge (TX-2 applied) and no mosfet cooling. To do this, I just need to increase FSB voltage by 0.1. My board runs 24/7 @ 378FSB at 100% full load with 0 voltage increases on FSB, NB, etc. and cpu voltage at 1.3875. I can even run my cpu at 3.6ghz but it requires a very large cpu voltage increase which makes my temperatures go through the roof (>70*C with Tuniq Tower).
Have you tried 6x400? That would take the memory and cpu right out of the equation and you'll know if FSB is what's limiting your overclock (also make sure to lock PCIe to 100).
I am not overly confident in my overclocking prowess with these boards, and I am definitely open to any inputs you have. Let me take this off-topic conversation to the motherboard forum and I'll open a new thread with BIOS specifics for you and I to discuss. I appreciate the heads-up.
by the way, i never have seen a faster install for windows then with the 9450..you know how it says it will take 35 minutes at some point..that hasn't been valid for awhile..but, it took me something like 9 or 11 minutes to install windows with the quad. i'm sure with my dual core 6400 it was 20 something.
- Sep 28, 2005
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LOL... or you can send it to me and i can throw it on a bench rig and tell you exactly what it does.
However it could just be a crappy B3 [shurg]
lol.... i never said i didnt agree with you... the DQ6 can most definitely hold it up. But good luck finding an old P35-DQ6. The X38-DQ6 i have no clue on.
Which is why i dont like cheap end boards anymore for the applications which i use them at. They dont seem to hold out to a lot of stress.
Combination of both and the fact its loaded 100% all the time.
I am typing this on a Gigabyte 965P-DS3 running an E6300 at 7 x 429 = 3003 mhz. This PC has been running 24 x 7 for well over a year with no failures and no signs of any imminent failure. My secondary rig is another 965P-DS3 running 7 x420 = 2940 mhz for something like 9 months now. Scythe Ninja and decent airflow in the case, but no special treatment.
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