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Q9300 @ 3.3 Ghz ~ PhII @ X.XX Ghz?

A

allies

Platinum Member
Thinking about selling my Q9300 + mobo to a friend and then pick up at PhII for myself. Been a while since I've been with AMD and kinda want to mess around. I'm curious though, how much would I have to OC the AMD to get similar performance?

From looking at benchies, I would say 3.5GHz whould give the PhII a slight edge over the C2Q. Since my C2Q is kinda "crippled" with low cache.

Just want some confirmations though or whatever... I don't really want to downgrade by any means but from what I've seen 3.5Ghz is pretty feasible.

Thanks everyone.

 
completely depends on what software you'd be running and how optimized/unoptimized it might be for either cpu
from what i've seen it looks like maybe 100-200+ MHz in most things, but others could be completely reversed

i'm also considering the same thing you are btw, just so I can play with AMD again.
amd does kick butt when things are optimized for it
my last 6 builds have been intel ...

 
Originally posted by: allies
Thinking about selling my Q9300 + mobo to a friend and then pick up at PhII for myself. Been a while since I've been with AMD and kinda want to mess around. I'm curious though, how much would I have to OC the AMD to get similar performance?

From looking at benchies, I would say 3.5GHz whould give the PhII a slight edge over the C2Q. Since my C2Q is kinda "crippled" with low cache.

Just want some confirmations though or whatever... I don't really want to downgrade by any means but from what I've seen 3.5Ghz is pretty feasible.

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

i really can't say but if you ask, i'd say 3.6 ;}
 
Originally posted by: allies
Thinking about selling my Q9300 + mobo to a friend and then pick up at PhII for myself. Been a while since I've been with AMD and kinda want to mess around. I'm curious though, how much would I have to OC the AMD to get similar performance?

From looking at benchies, I would say 3.5GHz whould give the PhII a slight edge over the C2Q. Since my C2Q is kinda "crippled" with low cache.

Just want some confirmations though or whatever... I don't really want to downgrade by any means but from what I've seen 3.5Ghz is pretty feasible.

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

FWIW, AT's review equates the X4 920 with the Q9300.
 
If you OC the uncore or whatever that thing is (the speed of the L3 Cache) from 1.8Ghz to 2.05Ghz (2.0 seems guaranteed, 2.05 reasonable and 2.1 a "good" chip) then performance improves by about 10%, putting it maybe 5% behind the q9x50 CPUs clock/clock. Basically not a big deal IMO.
 
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
If you OC the uncore or whatever that thing is (the speed of the L3 Cache) from 1.8Ghz to 2.05Ghz (2.0 seems guaranteed, 2.05 reasonable and 2.1 a "good" chip) then performance improves by about 10%, putting it maybe 5% behind the q9x50 CPUs clock/clock. Basically not a big deal IMO.
Click to expand...

Its called Northbridge (NB)
from the 940's i have seen, 2.4ghz+ is pretty easily attainable.

I am able to run my 940BE up to 3.9ghz with a NB speed of 2.7Ghz
 
Originally posted by: Rhoxed
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
If you OC the uncore or whatever that thing is (the speed of the L3 Cache) from 1.8Ghz to 2.05Ghz (2.0 seems guaranteed, 2.05 reasonable and 2.1 a "good" chip) then performance improves by about 10%, putting it maybe 5% behind the q9x50 CPUs clock/clock. Basically not a big deal IMO.
Click to expand...

Its called Northbridge (NB)
from the 940's i have seen, 2.4ghz+ is pretty easily attainable.

I am able to run my 940BE up to 3.9ghz with a NB speed of 2.7Ghz
Click to expand...

Actually, soccerballtux is correct - the "uncore" for PhII is the L3 cache, and also the memory controller. It's just linked to the NB speed.

2.7 is great - mine maxes out at 2.3, possibly due to heat.
 
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
2.7 uncore? And you've got 2.3 Gazelle? Wow.
Click to expand...

In the BE 720 review AT got their uncore/NB/L3 to 2.8GHz and said that all of their samples have gotten there.

All that required was a simple increase in CPU/NB VID from 1.200V to 1.375V with this particular CPU. Some CPUs will require additional voltage and/or improved cooling to clock up the Northbridge speed to this level. In our experiences to date with the Phenom II processors, all of our samples have hit 2.8GHz with 1.375V to 1.425V on good air-cooling.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by: allies
Thinking about selling my Q9300 + mobo to a friend and then pick up at PhII for myself. Been a while since I've been with AMD and kinda want to mess around. I'm curious though, how much would I have to OC the AMD to get similar performance?

From looking at benchies, I would say 3.5GHz whould give the PhII a slight edge over the C2Q. Since my C2Q is kinda "crippled" with low cache.

Just want some confirmations though or whatever... I don't really want to downgrade by any means but from what I've seen 3.5Ghz is pretty feasible.

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

why are you paying extra money to downgrade your system?
 
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: allies
Thinking about selling my Q9300 + mobo to a friend and then pick up at PhII for myself. Been a while since I've been with AMD and kinda want to mess around. I'm curious though, how much would I have to OC the AMD to get similar performance?

From looking at benchies, I would say 3.5GHz whould give the PhII a slight edge over the C2Q. Since my C2Q is kinda "crippled" with low cache.

Just want some confirmations though or whatever... I don't really want to downgrade by any means but from what I've seen 3.5Ghz is pretty feasible.

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

why are you paying extra money to downgrade your system?
Click to expand...

How is going from a Q9300 -> PhII 920 a downgrade? If anything, it's a sidegrade, and as stated in my OP I just want to mess around with AMD again. I was wondering if there has been any tests on scaling of Q9x00 series vs Phenom IIs.

Edit: And from looking at more benchies, if I get the Phenom II above 3.5 GHz it will be a slight (read: very small) upgrade from my Q9300 @ 3.3 Ghz.
 
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
Originally posted by: soccerballtux
2.7 uncore? And you've got 2.3 Gazelle? Wow.
Click to expand...

In the BE 720 review AT got their uncore/NB/L3 to 2.8GHz and said that all of their samples have gotten there.

All that required was a simple increase in CPU/NB VID from 1.200V to 1.375V with this particular CPU. Some CPUs will require additional voltage and/or improved cooling to clock up the Northbridge speed to this level. In our experiences to date with the Phenom II processors, all of our samples have hit 2.8GHz with 1.375V to 1.425V on good air-cooling.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Dang where have I been! So what is that other thread doing talking about the benchies comparing 1.8 to 2.07ghz??

If OP gets his Uncore to 2.1Ghz and the chip itself to 3.3ghz then it is most definitely at the very least a sidegrade. Pushing the Uncore to 2.5Ghz (or 2.8Ghz) would most definitely be an upgrade. If the mobo can do the FSB, then the 920 might go to 3.6Ghz? Who knows. That would be a nice upgrade.
 
Originally posted by: cusideabelincoln
What applications are you going to be running?
Click to expand...

Mix of games, Photoshop, some video editing here and there... then the regulars... Office, internet, instant messaging.
 
Lol My Phenom I 9950 has its NB running @ 2.4Ghz using 1.35v and Core @ 3.4Ghz using 1.45v on true 120 extreme , it shouldn't be that hard for Phenom II owners to push NB speed above 2.6Ghz.
 
If the uncore is pushed to at least 2.2ghz+, then getting higher performance than a Q9300 @ 3.3ghz shouldn't be much of an issue. Get a BE though, non-BE's seem to have the NB multiplier locked as well. Mine seems to be, if my weird mobo isn't the culprit. ATM I'm running a PII920 at 240HTT everything stock voltage, which is only 3.36 core @ 1.325v / 2.16 uncore @ 1.175v - If i push higher my memory starts crapping out.

Be warned though, phenom has a lot of parameters to try and get a handle on, instead of just jacking up the FSB. The limiting factor of an oc could be the core, uncore, memory or htt. This is what makes it harder but also more fun. Like an xtremesystems forum member puts it so eloquently: "Phenom,...Like the perfect Storm,...Everything needs to be just right" - didn't know how true that was till I got one myself 😀
 
Originally posted by: BLaber
Lol My Phenom I 9950 has its NB running @ 2.4Ghz using 1.35v and Core @ 3.4Ghz using 1.45v on true 120 extreme , it shouldn't be that hard for Phenom II owners to push NB speed above 2.6Ghz.
Click to expand...

Different situation. PhII has a lot more cache involved.
 
It sounds like you are looking less for a performance upgrade and more for something to "mess around with" and tinker with. Sound's like fun. 🙂 Not every computer choice has to be for perfomance only; if you want to try your have at some PhII overclocking, I say go ahead. It definitely won't be much of an upgrade (probably a little bit of one), but you won't lose anything either.
 
Originally posted by: ExarKun333
It sounds like you are looking less for a performance upgrade and more for something to "mess around with" and tinker with. Sound's like fun. 🙂 Not every computer choice has to be for perfomance only; if you want to try your have at some PhII overclocking, I say go ahead. It definitely won't be much of an upgrade (probably a little bit of one), but you won't lose anything either.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's pretty much how I was looking at it; I just don't want to LOSE an appreciable amount of performance. I don't think this happen from what the responses and what I've looked into. I'm expecting negligible gains if any, it's just more of something to see as I haven't built a current AMD tech rig since... 2002 🙂
 
Here are some overclocking numbers: http://xbitlabs.com/articles/c...rclocking_8.html#sect0

You basically will not lose any performance at all if you get the Phenom II up to about 3.6-7 GHz. I'll post the results for the gaming, video editing, and Photoshop tests and order them from best to worst performing. Also note the Q9300 @ 3.3 GHz numbers are simulated - calculated by using the two Q9300 results on a linear scale.

Crysis Warhead (fps):
Q9300 @ 3.56 GHz: 74.09
Ph 920 @ 3.72 GHz: 72.1
Q9300 @ 3.30 GHz: 70.7
Q9300 @ 2.50 GHz: 60.5
Ph 920 @ 2.80 GHz: 59.32

Far Cry 2 (fps):
Q9300 @ 3.56 GHz: 102.7
Q9300 @ 3.30 GHz: 99.4
Ph 920 @ 3.72 GHz: 99.09
Q9300 @ 2.50 GHz: 91.5
Ph 920 @ 2.80 GHz: 82.63

Unreal Tournament 3 (fps):
Ph 920 @ 3.72 GHz: 134.17
Q9300 @ 3.56 GHz: 122.27
Q9300 @ 3.30 GHz: 121.9
Ph 920 @ 2.80 GHz: 110.94
Q9300 @ 2.50 GHz: 107.62

World in Conflict (fps):
Q9300 @ 3.56 GHz: 94
Ph 920 @ 3.72 GHz: 90
Q9300 @ 3.30 GHz: 90
Q9300 @ 2.50 GHz: 79
Ph 920 @ 2.80 GHz: 74

Left 4 Dead (fps):
Q9300 @ 3.56 GHz: 138.7
Ph 920 @ 3.72 GHz: 134.03
Q9300 @ 3.30 GHz: 131.7
Q9300 @ 2.50 GHz: 110.2
Ph 920 @ 2.80 GHz: 108.28

DivX (fps):
Ph 920 @ 3.72 GHz: 28.74
Q9300 @ 3.56 GHz: 28.48
Q9300 @ 3.30 GHz: 26.6
Ph 920 @ 2.80 GHz: 22.05
Q9300 @ 2.50 GHz: 20.83

x264 (fps):
Ph 920 @ 3.72 GHz: 26.25
Q9300 @ 3.56 GHz: 24.83
Q9300 @ 3.30 GHz: 23.09
Ph 920 @ 2.80 GHz: 20.08
Q9300 @ 2.50 GHz: 17.75

Photoshop CS4 (sec):
Q9300 @ 3.56 GHz: 156
Q9300 @ 3.30 GHz: 169.7
Ph 920 @ 3.72 GHz: 170
Q9300 @ 2.50 GHz: 212
Ph 920 @ 2.80 GHz: 221

As you can see, in every test the two processors are at least equal to each other, but in some tests the Phenom II does look like it will have an advantage - basically in some games and video encoding applications. You should also note that in these tests they didn't overclock the uncore very much, so you might even see a Phenom II pull away in some tests if they did.
 
Originally posted by: allies
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: allies
Thinking about selling my Q9300 + mobo to a friend and then pick up at PhII for myself. Been a while since I've been with AMD and kinda want to mess around. I'm curious though, how much would I have to OC the AMD to get similar performance?

From looking at benchies, I would say 3.5GHz whould give the PhII a slight edge over the C2Q. Since my C2Q is kinda "crippled" with low cache.

Just want some confirmations though or whatever... I don't really want to downgrade by any means but from what I've seen 3.5Ghz is pretty feasible.

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

why are you paying extra money to downgrade your system?
Click to expand...

How is going from a Q9300 -> PhII 920 a downgrade? If anything, it's a sidegrade, and as stated in my OP I just want to mess around with AMD again. I was wondering if there has been any tests on scaling of Q9x00 series vs Phenom IIs.

Edit: And from looking at more benchies, if I get the Phenom II above 3.5 GHz it will be a slight (read: very small) upgrade from my Q9300 @ 3.3 Ghz.
Click to expand...

its your choice... although if looking for a slight upgrade after a heavy oc, wouldn't selling the CPU and getting a higher model drop in replacement be a better idea?

Basically the only justification you have is "i want to play around with an AMD again" and "if i overclock it high enough it might be a slight upgrade, otherwise i think i can oc it to the point where it is exactly the same performance..." spending time and money for the same performance is...

if that is your justification what are you asking us for? its obviously you are just itching to burn some money just to play with an AMD processor, as fine a hobby as any.
 
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: allies
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: allies
Thinking about selling my Q9300 + mobo to a friend and then pick up at PhII for myself. Been a while since I've been with AMD and kinda want to mess around. I'm curious though, how much would I have to OC the AMD to get similar performance?

From looking at benchies, I would say 3.5GHz whould give the PhII a slight edge over the C2Q. Since my C2Q is kinda "crippled" with low cache.

Just want some confirmations though or whatever... I don't really want to downgrade by any means but from what I've seen 3.5Ghz is pretty feasible.

Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...

why are you paying extra money to downgrade your system?
Click to expand...

How is going from a Q9300 -> PhII 920 a downgrade? If anything, it's a sidegrade, and as stated in my OP I just want to mess around with AMD again. I was wondering if there has been any tests on scaling of Q9x00 series vs Phenom IIs.

Edit: And from looking at more benchies, if I get the Phenom II above 3.5 GHz it will be a slight (read: very small) upgrade from my Q9300 @ 3.3 Ghz.
Click to expand...

its your choice... although if looking for a slight upgrade after a heavy oc, wouldn't selling the CPU and getting a higher model drop in replacement be a better idea?

Basically the only justification you have is "i want to play around with an AMD again" and "if i overclock it high enough it might be a slight upgrade, otherwise i think i can oc it to the point where it is exactly the same performance..." spending time and money for the same performance is...

if that is your justification what are you asking us for? its obviously you are just itching to burn some money just to play with an AMD processor, as fine a hobby as any.
Click to expand...

The justifications are:

1) I don't downgrade. I'm perfectly content with my system right now.
2) I help my buddy out by giving him a good price on my stuff.
3) I get to mess around with overclocking/tweaking an AMD system.

Sure, I could sell the chip and drop in a higher clocked C2Q. But then my buddy wouldn't be able to upgrade his rig to quad core on the cheap.
 
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