Q6600 @ 3.6 / GTX460 1GB enough for Dark Souls PC? Streaming too?

[Termie]

By the way, VirtualLarry, in your first post you asked whether your X6 machine would be more appropriate for your friend. I think the answer is probably yes, so that may be the best solution. I would certainly argue that you could sell it for more than $500.

The other thing I'll just mention here, in response to your comments regarding rebates on my proposed rig, is that to a certain extent you are mixing the goals of a system builder and a used system seller. I would never argue that you shouldn't earn a premium for building and selling computers as a business or even as a hobby. But the mindset of someone selling used computers or parts in the open market (which you should be operating in if your friend is to trust you in both giving advice and selling an item to him) is that there is no longer a premium placed on building, testing or tuning a product, and if anything, there is a discount for potential risks of failure.

Take, for instance, a GTX460 graphics card. If it were still available in the open market, it would rightly sell for about $110-120. People would buy it and be happy with it. Once it hits the used parts market, it is worth $70-80 (not the $60 that RS suggested, IMO). Even if you've tested it and can provide evidence of its fine operation or excellent overclocking abilities, it still isn't worth anything close to what it is worth new.

That is my opinion on your Q6600 build. It is an excellent system, put together with skill, and it seems a little luck with regard to that prime CPU. But when you're selling the system used (even more so than if you were to sell the Q6600 on its own), I think you have to factor in a generous discount.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

going to agree that $500 does seem a little high

that X48 DFI board was once the best of the best, but in today's market it doesn't even have SATA6 or USB3.0, which is pretty weak. I mean at least it has PCI-e 2.0 on the x16 slots, but unless you use one of those for an expansion card I'm not sure how nice the board will play with expansion cards specifically for adding on USB3.0 and/or SATA6 functionality if you plug it into one of the older PCI-e ports

whats more is I remember my P35 DFI giving me major fits trying to get it to work with a SSD, of which you're going to be limited to 1st/2nd generation speeds because of only having SATA3 ports, but my point is that I'm not so sure your friend/client would have such an easy time dropping in an SSD down the line if it ever came to it.

On top of all that, DFI is long gone from the consumer market, dropping out shortly after their s775 dominance, so there really wouldn't be much there in terms of any support whatsoever. This is kind of a recurring theme here; while that rig was extremely beast mode in its heyday, its no longer 2007...someone looking to bulid a nostalgia rig might be willing to accept some of your prices, but as a whole it does feel a little steep. For instance I have a Q9450 in a rig that my parents use that is held back by a P35 chipset, and very well might consider $130 for the X48 motherboard if only to play with the 9450 and really see how far it can be pushed, but otherwise there's very little that board offers in modern features that makes it worth more than $100 on today's market.

Basically the best future that board has to offer is dropping in a CPU like the Q9550 which aren't exactly dirt cheap anymore and ultimately not that much faster than a 3.6GHz Q6600, even if you can push it to 4GHz...of which there is no guarantee you'd hit even that, especially once you upgrade the system to 4 sticks of ram and have to rely on that X48 chipset pushing such a high FSB to the 4 CPU cores and 4 sticks of RAM. Heck, it might not be that simple even to drop in a new kit of 2x2GB DDR2 just to get to 8GB as I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Q6600 @ 3.6GHz won't want to play nice.

 

[VirtualLarry]

that X48 DFI board was once the best of the best, but in today's market it doesn't even have SATA6 or USB3.0, which is pretty weak. I mean at least it has PCI-e 2.0 on the x16 slots, but unless you use one of those for an expansion card I'm not sure how nice the board will play with expansion cards specifically for adding on USB3.0 and/or SATA6 functionality if you plug it into one of the older PCI-e ports

But at least it is expandable. Like you said, it has two PCI-E x16 2.0 slots, and a third PCI-E x16 slot that is x4 electrically.

It would be easy enough to get a SATA6G or USB3 or both card and drop it in. Voila, instant modernization.

whats more is I remember my P35 DFI giving me major fits trying to get it to work with a SSD, of which you're going to be limited to 1st/2nd generation speeds because of only having SATA3 ports, but my point is that I'm not so sure your friend/client would have such an easy time dropping in an SSD down the line if it ever came to it.

I'm sorry to hear that you had issues with your SSD. I've had no issues with my P35 boards and their SATA2 ports, with various SSDs thus far.

On top of all that, DFI is long gone from the consumer market, dropping out shortly after their s775 dominance, so there really wouldn't be much there in terms of any support whatsoever. This is kind of a recurring theme here; while that rig was extremely beast mode in its heyday, its no longer 2007...someone looking to bulid a nostalgia rig might be willing to accept some of your prices

The rig that my friend was upgrading from was even older.

Basically the best future that board has to offer is dropping in a CPU like the Q9550 which aren't exactly dirt cheap anymore and ultimately not that much faster than a 3.6GHz Q6600, even if you can push it to 4GHz...of which there is no guarantee you'd hit even that, especially once you upgrade the system to 4 sticks of ram and have to rely on that X48 chipset pushing such a high FSB to the 4 CPU cores and 4 sticks of RAM. Heck, it might not be that simple even to drop in a new kit of 2x2GB DDR2 just to get to 8GB as I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Q6600 @ 3.6GHz won't want to play nice.

I had 8GB of RAM in there initially, so it does play nice with all slots filled. The X48 officially supports 400 FSB, so there's no issue there, I'm not overclocking the chipset at all. If I dropped in a Q9550 though, then I would be looking to push the chipset to FSB 450 or so.

 

[VirtualLarry]

By the way, VirtualLarry, in your first post you asked whether your X6 machine would be more appropriate for your friend. I think the answer is probably yes, so that may be the best solution. I would certainly argue that you could sell it for more than $500.

That's the thing, I paid less for the X6 than I did the Q6600, so if the Q6600 doesn't cut it for what he needs, I would be more than happy to swap in the X6 rig at no additional cost.

 

[RussianSensation]

I am not going to research used computers on behalf of your friend, but I think your prices are ridiculous.

Here in Canada, a much smaller market, I instantly found a Core i5 750 system with 4GB of RAM and Windows 7 for $325.

Now I can take that, get a new PSU, new SSD and drop a new videocard and have a far better system than what you are selling. The U.S. is a far bigger market. You are selling a used system with barely any warranty, has no modern features, and a CPU+X48 platform that sucks power like a GTX480. In that case, what are the prices on Craigslist for used Core i5 systems?

Besides, if you really wanted to help your friend, you wouldn't be rejecting our deals that we keep posting. If you don't buy all the parts in 1 day, but over the span of 1-2 weeks, you can find amazing deals on SSDs, PSUs and videocards and mobos combos. So really, I could beat your system on price/performance without even trying and get 60-70% higher CPU speed courtesy of 2500k OCed. I am sure I could easily find used Core i5 2500K + mobo + 4GB of DDR3 systems in the U.S. for dirt cheap now since such a CPU is just $160 at MC now.

And no your Q6600 @ 3.6ghz has no chance outperforming a modern i3 in games. This is because each Q6600 core @ 3.6ghz is 40-50% slower than each i3 core at 3.6ghz due to IPC increases since Core 2 Duo generation. Since Q6600 @ 3.6ghz cannot beat a Phenom II X4 @ 3.8ghz in games and modern Core i3 CPUs beat the Phenom II X4/X6 in games, that means your Q6600 @ 3.6ghz would also lose.

This is not surprising since a Q6600 @ 3.4-3.6ghz is only as fast as a 2.67ghz Core i7 920. It seems you are way over-estimating how fast Core 2 Quad architecture was. Your CPU is about as fast as a Q8400 series and slower than Q9550 series in IPC. It is not better than Phenom II X4.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/cpu-benchmark-mainstream_6.html#sect0

That fact that so far no one bought your old components in years in your For Sale Thread shows that your parts are overpriced. If your friend is willing to buy your system for $500, it's your win, his loss. You trying to prove to people who follow PC components and prices that this is a good deal isn't going to work.

I don't even need to know that you only used this system for 3 years. That CPU was fast in 2007. It's 2013 in less than 4 months.

Let me put it this way, Haswell will add another 10-15% IPC increase in April 2013.

Core i5 4570K (Haswell) @ 5.0ghz (Intel is rumoured to fix the solder IVB issue)

There are all the IPC increases since then:

C2Q (100%) x 1.05 (45nm C2Q refresh) x 1.15-1.175% (Nehalem/Lynnfield) x 1.15 (SB) x 1.05 (IVB) x 1.15 Haswell => 60-67% IPC increase.

$225 Haswell i5 4570K @ 5.0ghz ==> 8.4 ghz Q6600.

Now, I know I could easily put together a next generation Haswell rig for $650-700 since I can put together a SB/IVB system for that now.

8.4ghz Q6600 / 3.6ghz Q6600 = 2.3x faster CPU performance.

Plus, all the latest features, 3 year warranty on most parts. You are selling your old parts for $500 but for just $150-200 more, you'll be able to build a system more than 2x faster in 6 months from today. I am not seeing why your deal has good price/performance.

This is a common misconception actually with people who are still stuck on Q6600/Q9550 CPUs. They still think just because those CPUs were fast 5 years ago, that they are still fast today. The fact that you are comparing amount of cache between a modern i3 and a Q6600 shows you haven't followed advacements in CPU architectures. You cannot possibly compare the speed of modern Core i cache vs. that of a Q6600. Q6600's 4mb of slow cache is a massive liability in today's games.

The system you are selling now is already outdated right away. It's not $500 system vs. $650-700 modern system. It's more like your system cannot really handle any future GPU upgrades without a huge CPU bottleneck. That's why it has no upgrade path. Q6600 @ 3.6ghz even bottlenecks a stock GTX470/6950. Q6600 @ 3.6ghz vs. a 5.0ghz Haswell is akin to a 3.0ghz Pentium-D vs. 3.4ghz Core 2 Duo because since 2006 Core 2 Duo architecture, Intel has added 15% IPC increase each new generation and we are about to go to the 3rd major "i generation" (that's 1.15^3) and then you have 2 refreshes with 5% IPC increase in each (1.05^2) in-between. That's a 68% increase in IPC per core from C2D/Q generation. Add 1-1.4ghz overclocking headroom on Haswell and you will be looking at > 2-2.3x the speed increase in CPU speed in just 6 months from now from a $190-200 "k" chip Haswell chip @ MC and a $30 cooler.

If your friend spends $150-200 more, he can use the Haswell i5 system for another 5 years. Yours, outdated already and 2x slower and will use 250W+ more power @ load and 100W more in idle.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I am not going to research used computers on behalf of your friend, but I think your prices are ridiculous.

Here in Canada, a much smaller market, I instantly found a Core i5 750 system with 4GB of RAM and Windows 7 for $325.

Now I can take that, get a new PSU, new SSD and drop a new videocard and have a far better system than what you are selling. The U.S. is a far bigger market. You are selling a used system with barely any warranty, has no modern features, and a CPU+X48 platform that sucks power like a GTX480. In that case, what are the prices on Craigslist for used Core i5 systems?

That system you found says $350 in the actual text, and it's a gateway - non-overclockable. My Q6600 @ 3.6 is faster than a 750 @ 2.67. Not to mention, it only has a 4650, which pales in comparison to a GTX460.

And no your Q6600 @ 3.6ghz has no chance outperforming a modern i3 in games. This is because each Q6600 core @ 3.6ghz is 40-50% slower than each i3 core at 3.6ghz due to IPC increases since Core 2 Duo generation. Since Q6600 @ 3.6ghz cannot beat a Phenom II X4 @ 3.8ghz in games and modern Core i3 CPUs beat the Phenom II X4/X6 in games, that means your Q6600 @ 3.6ghz would also lose.

First of all, there is no Sandy/Ivy i3 chip capable of 3.6. Second of all, an i3 LOSES to a Phenom II X4 in multitasking workloads, because hyperthreading is no substitute for real cores. Streaming involves a pretty heavy multi-tasking load. I would be really surprised to find out that two 3.1Ghz cores could out-perform four 3.6Ghz cores ON A HEAVY MULTITASKING LOAD.

That fact that so far no one bought your old components in years in your For Sale Thread shows that your parts are overpriced.

Don't you think that's kind of a low blow? I've been told that my prices were decent, but that my policies (no paypal, only dealing with postal money order) are the problem.
Not to mention, most of my stuff is NEW, not used, so therefore carries a premium that many FS/FT participants are unwilling to pay.

I don't even need to know that you only used this system for 3 years. That CPU was fast in 2007. It's 2013 in less than 4 months.

I don't know if you think I'm lying or what. I've repeatedly told you that the system only had a month of use on it, besides the initial build and some benchmarking runs during burn-in.

Let me put it this way, Haswell will add another 10-15% IPC increase in April 2013.

Core i5 4570K (Haswell) @ 5.0ghz (Intel is rumoured to fix the solder IVB issue)

Ridiculous Haswell argument deleted.

There's always going to be something faster/newer/cheaper around the corner.

If you could show me where to purchase an equivalent or faster Haswell system TODAY, FOR THE SAME PRICE AS MY RIG, then you might have a point. But you don't.

 

[jacktesterson]

I wouldnt touch that system for anymore than $300 personally .

too high.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/sys/3261375807.html

I found this rig on Craigslist. It's somewhat comparable to mine, except that it COST MORE, and is CLOCKED SLOWER. (2.8Ghz Phenom II X4 OEM).

My build also has superior components in it. So I think my price is just fine.

http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/sys/3235830693.html

This one's even better. $1200, for a rig with an Antec 300, Athlon II X4 640, and a 5770. With an EarthWatts 430W PSU.

I should raise my price!

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wouldnt touch that system for anymore than $300 personally .

too high.

I would love to see you build something comparable for $300. Even using all used parts.

Edit: Heck, the Q6600 alone is worth $80 on ebay, the GTX460 1GB card Termie said was worth $80, the 2x2GB of DDR2-800 is worth $40, that's $200 right there. Add $100 for Windows 7, and that doesn't leave anything for:

case, psu, motherboard, heatsink, HD, DVD.

Personally, I think you're nuts. Kind of like the guy from CL that tried to buy some of my retail-boxed HDs, for the price he saw and quoted from pricewatch, which was for REFURB BARE DRIVES.

 

[Termie]

I've always wondered why price checks aren't allows - I guess this thread shows one of the downsides of talking about used prices. Everyone has their own opinion, so nothing good can really come of it.

There are a lot of veteran forum members here, so we all clearly have some knowledge, most of all Virtual Larry. A fair price is ultimately whatever a buyer is willing to pay you, as it's up to the buyer to make his or her own decision. If we all walked into a grocery store and saw a loaf of bread for $5, some of us would jump at it and some would call it ridiculous. Point being, for someone out there, an OC'd q6600 system with a GTX460 is going to be a good deal at $500. For experienced forum members, it's probably not.

I think the best thing for VL to do is to give his friend some examples of what new systems cost and how they differ from whichever used rig he decides to offer him, and his friend can make up his own mind.

 

[VirtualLarry]

There are a lot of veteran forum members here, so we all clearly have some knowledge, most of all Virtual Larry. A fair price is ultimately whatever a buyer is willing to pay you, as it's up to the buyer to make his or her own decision. If we all walked into a grocery store and saw a loaf of bread for $5, some of us would jump at it and some would call it ridiculous. Point being, for someone out there, an OC'd q6600 system with a GTX460 is going to be a good deal at $500. For experienced forum members, it's probably not.

The bread I buy at the grocery store is ~$6. And worth every penny, because I buy high-end bread. Likewise, I feel that the rig that I am selling my friend, although a bit outdated, is also rather high-end. It's like a mint condition 2000 Cadillac, with 10,000 original miles on it. But everyone thinks that driving a Prius is the new thing, and no-one here on the forum wants to pay for a Cadillac anymore. Good for them. But for my friend that was driving a 10-year-old Yugo, the Cadillac is quite an upgrade.

I think the best thing for VL to do is to give his friend some examples of what new systems cost and how they differ from whichever used rig he decides to offer him, and his friend can make up his own mind.

I'll educate him on the "Prius option".

I already stated that if he wants it, I would be willing to swap out the q6600 for an X6 1045T, similarly overclocked, for the same price. I think that's fair too.

 

[SolMiester]

Hey Larry, hope your friend doesn't read this site...LOL...I have no idea about prices I. The Americas, but by my reckoning, it almost 95% of people who have posted that think 5 large is too much for 6 yr old tech.....<shrug>... Do you think they are all wrong or biased?, or perhaps you might be a little bit?

 

[bunnyfubbles]

But at least it is expandable. Like you said, it has two PCI-E x16 2.0 slots, and a third PCI-E x16 slot that is x4 electrically.

It would be easy enough to get a SATA6G or USB3 or both card and drop it in. Voila, instant modernization.

my point was that it might not be so certain that the non PCI-e 2.0 slots would be enough, many modern expansion cards are only x1 phsyically, so it wont matter if the 3rd PCI-e x16 slot can deliver x4 PCI-e 1.0 bandwidth if the card wants PCI-e 2.0 bandwidth from a phsyical x1 connection.

basically we're running into a scenario where the motherboard is so old that one might have to do research into what expansion parts would be compatible with modernizing it as many of the parts specifically made for such older motherboards have since been discontinued themselves. For instance, the venerable ASUS U3S6: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813995004

I'm not saying it won't work at all to plug in a new expansion card, all I'm saying is it really won't be as simple as plug and play and everything will work as expected, let alone with modern performance.

to keep things in perspective, USB3 is capable of 5gbit transfers and SATA6 obvious 6gbit, which is anywhere from 400-600MB/sec of raw throughput depending on the device. A single PCI-e 2.0 lane can supply ~500MB/sec, whereas PCI-e 1.0 is only half that at 250MB/sec, and would thus neuter the potential of USB3/Sata6 unless it was physical x4 card in PCI-e 1.0 x4 slot or bigger, the likes of which are rare these days (note the discontinued ASUS card, most newer expansion cards are PCI-e 2.0 x1).

I really can't help but feel like the s775 rig is just too outdated

I already stated that if he wants it, I would be willing to swap out the q6600 for an X6 1045T, similarly overclocked, for the same price. I think that's fair too.

Not only would the X6 be better for the encoding necessary for live streaming, its more modern motherboard would make for a far more future-ready rig.

 

[DominionSeraph]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2268530
Unlocked X4 B55 + mobo + 4GB DDR2 $125

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2244292
5870 $130

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133179
Thermaltake v4: $40.50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371030
Antec Neo Eco 520: $47

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178240
500GB Momentus XT Hybrid Drive: $76.50

Total: $419. No rebates.
So, similarly clocked, similar IPC quad core.
Considerably better GPU
Hybrid hard drive

For $80 less.

This is why we're saying $500 is no deal. And you can get a used GTX 460 for $40-50 less than that 5870, making a near equivalent system (just a better HDD) $120-$130 less than what you're charging.

You seem to be trying REALLY hard to convince yourself that $500 is a good price, but it just ain't. $400? Sure. $450 to charge a tax for your expertise? All well and good. But $500 is in the range of taking advantage of a conservatard's ignorance.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Don't want to jump on the bandwagen here, but I'd feel dirty if I tried to pass that system to a 'buddy' for that price. I have a friend at work that sometimes buys my older parts I almost always drop the used part by at least 25% with what it would cost brand new for the same item or something equivelent.

For example, if I bought a 7970 regular edition for $500 when it came out, and it dropped to $375 at the time a friend was looking to buy, I would take $375 X .75 and offer to sell it for ~$280 aprox. That is, of course, assuming I wanted to sell it anyway.

I had a guy I used to work with who would try and sell people used and opened items for about the same price as something brand new. The kicker is, people BOUGHT it. So I long gave up trying to educate people. I can't do that to people, I'd feel dirty. But I guess others can do that and not think anything is wrong. Yet, maybe they are right. Perhaps if someone is dumb enough to pay retail for a used and slower product, they deserve it.

As far as craigslist - What a joke. At least 30% of the postings I see are so far out of reality it is ridiculous.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2268530
Unlocked X4 B55 + mobo + 4GB DDR2 $125

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2244292
5870 $130

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133179
Thermaltake v4: $40.50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371030
Antec Neo Eco 520: $47

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822178240
500GB Momentus XT Hybrid Drive: $76.50

Total: $419. No rebates.
So, similarly clocked, similar IPC quad core.
Considerably better GPU
Hybrid hard drive

For $80 less.

This is why we're saying $500 is no deal. And you can get a used GTX 460 for $40-50 less than that 5870, making a near equivalent system (just a better HDD) $120-$130 less than what you're charging.

You seem to be trying REALLY hard to convince yourself that $500 is a good price, but it just ain't. $400? Sure. $450 to charge a tax for your expertise? All well and good. But $500 is in the range of taking advantage of a conservatard's ignorance.

Unfortunately, that GPU has a factory waterblock attached, so it wouldn't work in a regular system. But I give you points for your build. You did forget the DVD drive, but that's only another $20.

And the mobo is micro-ATX, which won't do. One of the reasons I sold him this rig, instead of the 2.8Ghz AMD quad-core rig with 4GB/500GB that I was selling for $200, was that the mobo was full ATX, with three full PCI-E x16 slots for expansion cards, so he could use a double-wide GPU, and drop in a capture card or two, or a U3S6 card (which I had not realized were discontinued).

The price difference between a high-end ATX mobo, and a micro-ATX mobo, is $50 or more.

So altogether, add $70 to your price, and then consider that you would have to spend on getting a normal cooler for that GPU, or splash out for WC gear.

So all in all, it works out to around the same as my rig.

Edit: I just realized that you FORGOT WINDOWS 7. Add $100 to that price again, and now, your rig costs $100 more than mine. Sorry, fail.

I was considering last night, offering him a PSU swap, for a 550W Platinum PSU. It would cost me around $120, but I would get his PSU back, which cost me around $75. That would certainly help with the power-consumption issues, which I agree are a valid concern. (I did mention to him that I didn't use that rig because it took too much power myself.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

Don't want to jump on the bandwagen here, but I'd feel dirty if I tried to pass that system to a 'buddy' for that price. I have a friend at work that sometimes buys my older parts I almost always drop the used part by at least 25% with what it would cost brand new for the same item or something equivelent.

For example, if I bought a 7970 regular edition for $500 when it came out, and it dropped to $375 at the time a friend was looking to buy, I would take $375 X .75 and offer to sell it for ~$280 aprox. That is, of course, assuming I wanted to sell it anyway.

Let's look at this.

X48 mobos on ebay are selling for ~$145.
Q6600 G0 SLACR on ebay are selling for ~$99.
2x2GB Gskill DDR2-800 for ~$45. ebay
Tuniq Tower 120 for ~$30. ebay
Antec 300 for ~$65. ebay
EarthWatts 650W Green for ~$65. ebay
DVD burner for ~$20 at Newegg
500GB WD HD for ~$70 at Newegg.

That's $539 for just the worth of the parts alone.

Add $100 for Windows 7. That's $639, for what you would pay in parts costs alone for my rig.

I don't know why everyone on this forum seems to think that computers, once built, are automatically worth MUCH LESS than the sum total of the cost of the parts. It's totally illogical.

I had a guy I used to work with who would try and sell people used and opened items for about the same price as something brand new. The kicker is, people BOUGHT it. So I long gave up trying to educate people. I can't do that to people, I'd feel dirty. But I guess others can do that and not think anything is wrong. Yet, maybe they are right. Perhaps if someone is dumb enough to pay retail for a used and slower product, they deserve it.

If I was selling this rig for what the parts cost me new, it would be a $1000 rig instead of a $500 rig. I already discounted it 50%.

As far as craigslist - What a joke. At least 30% of the postings I see are so far out of reality it is ridiculous.

But those posts are the reality of the market.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Let's look at this.

X48 mobos on ebay are selling for ~$145.
Q6600 G0 SLACR on ebay are selling for ~$99.
2x2GB Gskill DDR2-800 for ~$45. ebay
Tuniq Tower 120 for ~$30. ebay
Antec 300 for ~$65. ebay
EarthWatts 650W Green for ~$65. ebay
DVD burner for ~$20 at Newegg
500GB WD HD for ~$70 at Newegg.

That's $539 for just the worth of the parts alone.

Add $100 for Windows 7. That's $639, for what you would pay in parts costs alone for my rig.

I don't know why everyone on this forum seems to think that computers, once built, are automatically worth MUCH LESS than the sum total of the cost of the parts. It's totally illogical.


If I was selling this rig for what the parts cost me new, it would be a $1000 rig instead of a $500 rig. I already discounted it 50%.


But those posts are the reality of the market.

You are comparing apples with oranges.

No one would buy a Q6600 over a Core i3 that consumes less power and performs better. No one would buy an X48 chipset over a Z68/Z77 chipset because those cost less and allow an upgrade path. No one would buy DDR2 because 4GB costs more ethan 8GB of DDR3. No one would buy a Tuniq Tower because the Hyper Extreme 212 is better. Earthwatts 650 is used so the caps are degraded. Used Hard Drive cannot even come close to commanding like new prices.

Your logic is flawed. You are comparing items that are no longer in production and using their prices. I am not sure if you know this, but often times when a part is no longer manufacture the price will go up. That is likely the case with the X48 motherboard that you have and is certainly the case with DDR2. You also have overclocked the system and put some stress on it.

Why is your comparison not valid? I think it is pretty easy to see why. People can BUILD a much faster system for around the same price... Those parts would come with a longer warranty... I am also not sure how you claim your system is only 2 years old. The Q6600 G0 debuted back in January of 07 at a street price of around $250. By my math, that processor 5 years and 9 months old. If we go with the initial B3, then we are over 6 years old.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Let's look at this.

X48 mobos on ebay are selling for ~$145.
Q6600 G0 SLACR on ebay are selling for ~$99.
2x2GB Gskill DDR2-800 for ~$45. ebay
Tuniq Tower 120 for ~$30. ebay
Antec 300 for ~$65. ebay
EarthWatts 650W Green for ~$65. ebay
DVD burner for ~$20 at Newegg
500GB WD HD for ~$70 at Newegg.

That's $539 for just the worth of the parts alone.

Add $100 for Windows 7. That's $639, for what you would pay in parts costs alone for my rig.

I don't know why everyone on this forum seems to think that computers, once built, are automatically worth MUCH LESS than the sum total of the cost of the parts. It's totally illogical.


If I was selling this rig for what the parts cost me new, it would be a $1000 rig instead of a $500 rig. I already discounted it 50%.


But those posts are the reality of the market.

its not illogical, individual parts almost always command a higher price (something that holds true far outside the computer realm even). Someone with an old s775 C2D rig can likely drop in a Q6600 and have a pretty significant upgrade for only $80-100. For someone looking to maximize the potential of their Q9xxx CPU and have all the other parts, $140 isn't that bad for an X48 motherboard.

The problem is that combo of CPU/mobo in today's market are worth less than ~$130 together in terms of performance/features compared to newer parts if you're trying to sell someone a complete rig. There are $90 new CPUs that are ultimately better in every way, and $60 motherboards with far more modern features than what you're offering. The easiest example is the RAM, yes, 2 x 2GB of DDR2 can run $45, but 2 x 4GB of one of the absolute best kits of DDR3 costs less than that - double the capacity and double the speed yet costs less...yet you're apparently still too hung up on what those parts were worth 4-5 years ago and how much you paid for them to realize it

yes, if you bought all those core components (CPU/mobo/RAM) individually it might end up costing $280, however doing so is pretty idiotic when you can get far better modern hardware for far less.

Its nice that you're including a case/PSU combo that are much better than the average $500 budget build, the problem is that many here feel its a waste of budget and that you're using such relative luxury parts to help up-sell obsolete core components.

 

[Arkaign]

It's honestly not a terrible deal price-wise when you look at the cost of the components on the used market. However, it's at that point where I'd recommend dumping the stuff on Ebay if a friend had that system, to be replaced with newer stuff.

I wouldn't sell that system to someone unless they knew pretty well what they were getting into.

 

[Rvenger]

Is it a price check if I ask if I charge him $500 for it, am I ripping him off?

You ask the question then you scrutinize everyone for not agreeing with you. Guess what? No price checks.


Yes, your price is way too high. I would sell all of that for $250 $350 tops. The extra PCI lanes on that board are useless since every mid-highend SLI/Xfire card 3 years or newer would bring the CPU to it's knees. You can't include anything overclocked as an extra value either. Its FREE performance. I sold a 2500k golden chip last year for $180.

 

[Arkaign]

You ask the question then you scrutinize everyone for not agreeing with you. Guess what? No price checks.


Yes, your price is way too high. I would sell all of that for $250 tops. The extra PCI lanes on that board are useless since every mid-highend SLI/Xfire card 3 years or newer would bring the CPU to it's knees. You can't include anything overclocked as an extra value either. Its FREE performance. I sold a 2500k golden chip last year for $180.

I don't think that's a fair price unless you just like giving things away. He could put everything on open auction on Ebay, staring at .01 cents with no reserve, and get far more than $250.

I'm not saying that as a system it's worth $500 imho, but that it's an ideal pile of stuff just to send to auction.

 

[notty22]

You ask the question then you scrutinize everyone for not agreeing with you. Guess what? No price checks.


Yes, your price is way too high. I would sell all of that for $250 tops. The extra PCI lanes on that board are useless since every mid-highend SLI/Xfire card 3 years or newer would bring the CPU to it's knees. You can't include anything overclocked as an extra value either. Its FREE performance. I sold a 2500k golden chip last year for $180.

I agree, had a reply typed up for a while, was hoping for some sanity.

Here it is:
I read the original post, and I thought the OP was looking for discussion/opinion to what he proposed. Instead I see a edgy obstinate reaction to every reply. Old computer hardware is not like fine wine or a muscle car. In rare cases audiophile components retain some value. Not outdated, generation old m/b's and cpu's. That have been replaced by cheaper , better hardware. Obsoleting it's value, placing %'s on original component cost impossible.

 

[Rvenger]

I don't think that's a fair price unless you just like giving things away. He could put everything on open auction on Ebay, staring at .01 cents with no reserve, and get far more than $250.

I'm not saying that as a system it's worth $500 imho, but that it's an ideal pile of stuff just to send to auction.

Im sorry, that was a typo above Arkaign.

I don't sell for a profit and I would think that $350 max would be fair for that setup as an asking price. When you sell together, you lose more value. The technology is old, simple as that.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Im sorry, that was a typo above Arkaign.

I don't sell for a profit and I would think that $350 max would be fair for that setup as an asking price. When you sell together, you lose more value. The technology is old, simple as that.

Even with a GTX460 1GB card, and a legit copy of Windows 7?

I originally quoted my friend a price of $400 for the Q6600 @ 3.6 rig, case, psu, hd, dvd, ram, cooler, cpu, mobo. I also quoted him $80 for the used GTX460 (which Termie mentioned was a fair price). And then I bundled them, offering him the $400 PC with both the GPU and Windows 7 installed for $500. I guess I just fail to see how that's such a bad deal, when no-one has been able to show me any examples of rigs that have the features and speed of this one, with a discrete GPU and Windows 7, for the same or lower price as mine.

All I hear are people saying, "I wouldn't buy that old 'junk', I'd rather spend a bit more and get an IB rig and OC it."

The sad truth is, older tech doesn't get significantly cheaper, until it's completely and utterly obsolete (see P4 rigs today). However, it does get less desirable to purchase, because newer tech comes out, at the same price.

For example, the price of a new 775 micro-ATX board is around $50. You can get an Asrock H77M for $70. You could probably even get an ECS H61 board for less than $50.

If you were building new, sure, choose the newer parts. But I was able to deliver a solution that was orders-of-magnitude faster than his old PC, made out of high-quality parts, for a price that fit into his budget.

He picked up the PC two days ago, and is ecstatic about it.