Q6600 @ 3.6 / GTX460 1GB enough for Dark Souls PC? Streaming too?

[VirtualLarry]

Got a buddy looking to buy my older but barely used overclocked SLACR rig.

He wants to stream over twitch.tv too.

Is that rig enough?

It currently has a 500GB WD, and 2x2GB DDR2-800.

He might want/need more RAM, I suppose.

Edit: If that isn't enough, what about a Phenom II X6 @ 3.51, with 16GB DDR3-1600?

 

[Face2Face]

Take a look here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=309480

For these games, they are touting a pretty heavy setup. No sure about DarkSouls?

 

[RussianSensation]

Greenhell6, I don't think the person wants to stream games to other users, but to watch streaming content online. Even a Core 2 Duo can do that at 1080P. Also, Dark Souls is not CPU or GPU demanding even with high resolution fix at 1080P rendering. That system would have no problems playing that game at 2560x1600 even. You can make the game very demanding if you enable 6400x3600 render resolution @ 1920x1080, 1080 dof setting, ultra smaa.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=488240

 

[Face2Face]

Greenhell6, I don't think the person wants to stream games to other users, but to watch streaming content online. Even a Core 2 Duo can do that at 1080P. Also, Dark Souls is not CPU or GPU demanding even with high resolution fix at 1080P rendering. That system would have no problems playing that game at 2560x1600 even. You can make the game very demanding if you enable 6400x3600 render resolution @ 1920x1080, 1080 dof setting, ultra smaa.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=488240

Maybe I misunderstood. It looks like he said he wanted to Stream games. To watch streaming games can be done on basic setup

 

[bunnyfubbles]

a Q6600 with only 4GB of RAM is going to be on the very low end for what you'd want to stream with, I'd wager the Phenom II X6 would be a better overall option for its faster encoding performance for streaming even if its no better for gaming

granted, I've heard Dark Souls isn't very hardware intensive given its lack of extra eye candy and 30fps limit, so the extra hardware power might not be necessary even if streaming, so its not as easy of a call to make

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, he wants to broadcast his gameplay. The good news is, the minimum requirements for Dark Souls is only a 3.0Ghz dual-core. So that would leave two cores for streaming. I think it would be enough for now, and if he ever wants to stream BF3, I'll have to talk him into an i7-3770K.

 

[jacktesterson]

Yes, he wants to broadcast his gameplay. The good news is, the minimum requirements for Dark Souls is only a 3.0Ghz dual-core. So that would leave two cores for streaming. I think it would be enough for now, and if he ever wants to stream BF3, I'll have to talk him into an i7-3770K.

I think it will be fine, why the streaming ?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Is it a price check if I ask if I charge him $500 for it, am I ripping him off?

We already agreed on the price, but I want to make sure it's fair, because he is a friend.

Antec 300
Earthwatts 650W
DFI X48 LT mobo (cost me $260 originally, still like new)
Q6600 (cost me $210 on sale at Microcenter)
2x2 (4GB) DDR2-800 Gskill. The popular blue ones.
WD 500GB SATA2 HD
DVD burner
Tuniq Tower 120
overclocked to 3.6, at a low voltage
Gigabyte WindForce GTX460 1GB OC video card (Cost me $180 when they came out)
6 month warranty
Edit: Legit Win7 64-bit HP pre-installed.

I looked at CyberPowerPC, and the lowest-cost gaming rig that they had with an intel quad-core was in the $700-800 range. Granted, it had 8GB RAM, but generally with a crappy video card like a GF520 or something like that, or a 550ti if you were lucky.

 

[RussianSensation]

Is it a price check if I ask if I charge him $500 for it, am I ripping him off?

Does your friend live near a MC as well? You can put together a faster system than what you are selling him for $500 for maybe $100 more. The only thing of value I am seeing in that system is the OS. The CPU is 6 years old, the RAM is non-reusable and extremely expensive to upgrade beyond 4GB. The videocard is worth maybe $60 used. Basically he might save a couple bucks over a new system but the system you are selling him for $500 is outdated immediately. The HDD is a massive bottleneck as well, and X48 chipset + Q6600 @ 3.6ghz suck power which adds up in electricity costs over time if he intends to use the system for intensive workloads.

I sold 4GB of DDR2-800 Platinum Rev 2 sticks (better than your ram), Q6600 G0, Gigabyte motherboard, and Tuniq Tower for $275 3 years ago. You are pushing all of that old stuff for $500 and by now it's even more outdated? hmmm.....

Cooler Master Hyper 212+ for $25-30 outperforms the Tuniq Tower (your friend can just use the stock AMD or Intel heatsink though)
8GB of DDR3 can be had for $34
You can find a good quality PSU for $50
ASRock Z77 Pro3 + i5 3570K @ MC = $250 ish
Case = $37
HD7770 Ghz for $105
===========
~$505 - $535

Now add OS, HDD and for not much more this system will run circles around what you are selling for $500. And that's not even considering getting AM3+ FX6100 CPU or something similar to save more $.

Your parts also lack modern features such as SATA 3, USB 3, PCIe 3, USB 3.0 charging, future upgrade path and no warranty, plus they are used.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Does your friend live near a MC as well? You can put together a faster system than what you are selling him for $500 for maybe $100 more.

I would put it at $200-250 more.

The only thing of value I am seeing in that system is the OS. The CPU is 6 years old, the RAM is non-reusable and extremely expensive to upgrade beyond 4GB.

It's still a viable quad-core, and it's still faster than an FX chip. And the RAM isn't horribly expensive. It's $55 at Newegg for another 4GB kit. Sure, it's more expensive than DDR3, but it's not prohibitively expensive.

The videocard is worth maybe $60 used. Basically he might save a couple bucks over a new system but the system you are selling him for $500 is outdated immediately. The HDD is a massive bottleneck as well, and X48 chipset + Q6600 @ 3.6ghz suck power which adds up in electricity costs over time if he intends to use the system for intensive workloads.

Well, that's good, because I'm charging him $50 for the video card. But it seems ironic that you would claim that the C2Q 65nm was a power-sucker, and yet later on you recommend an FX CPU, which presumably would have to be overclocked to match or exceed the speed of the Q6600.

I sold 4GB of DDR2-800 Platinum Rev 2 sticks (better than your ram), Q6600 G0, Gigabyte motherboard, and Tuniq Tower for $275 3 years ago. You are pushing all of that old stuff for $500 and by now it's even more outdated? hmmm.....

And yet, even today, a Q6600 is worth $80 by itself, a nearly-new DFI X48 mobo is probably worth $130, 4GB of name-brand DDR2-800 is worth $50-60, and a Tuniq is still worth at least $40.

Cooler Master Hyper 212+ for $25-30 outperforms the Tuniq Tower (your friend can just use the stock AMD or Intel heatsink though)
8GB of DDR3 can be had for $34
You can find a good quality PSU for $50
ASRock Z77 Pro3 + i5 3570K @ MC = $250 ish
Case = $37
HD7770 Ghz for $105
===========
~$505 - $535

Those are pretty optimistic prices.
The Hyper 212+ from Directron.com is $23.99, plus shipping it's probably more than $30.
That 8GB of DDR3 is showing up as $43.99 now.
That PSU is ~$84, not $50.
That case is ~$47, and is not even as good as my Antec 300. Less well built, less cooling by far.
That video card is $129.99.
So $250-ish for CPU+mobo from MC, plus $30 in gas and tolls, plus I should charge for my time going out there.
Plus charging for assembly of the system ($50)
Plus Windows 7 HP 64-bit ($100).

So the realistic total for your build is more like $765.

Yes, it would be faster, but he was on a budget. You can usually always choose to spend MORE to GET MORE, but most people have a budget limit. My rig fit within his limit. Considering I'm selling it to him for half price of what I paid for it, I think he's getting a deal.

I looked at CyberPowerPC, the cheapest Intel quad-core I could find that even approached my deal as far as price was over $800, with a 550ti video card, which is weaker than the 460.

Now add OS, HDD and for not much more this system will run circles around what you are selling for $500. And that's not even considering getting AM3+ FX6100 CPU or something similar to save more $.

Your parts also lack modern features such as SATA 3, USB 3, PCIe 3, USB 3.0 charging, future upgrade path and no warranty, plus they are used.

IB doesn't have any future upgrade path either. I offered him a six-month warranty through me. SATA3 only matter if you want to splash out for a fast SSD, but that's a bit more money. USB3 is useful, but I can always add a PCI-E card for that.

Edit: One thing to consider, is that he is coming from a single-core PC with 1GB of RAM and onboard video. (Which I gave him some more RAM and a 8400GS PCI-E card to extend the life of it a few more months until he could afford to upgrade.)

So this quad-core is going to a quantum leap forward in performance, even if it isn't state-of-the-art compared to today's rigs. (Which I would probably price at around $800-1000 for a decent one.)

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

This
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Tpk=83-103-411
plus this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127687
$560.

Edit: Well, that might not really be comparable and would probably need a new PSU too, so NVM.

 

[Termie]

To get an appropriate price comparison you would compare this to a new Phenom 955 system. That would be equivalent to your system.

I think $500 is high.

 

[VirtualLarry]

This
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Tpk=83-103-411
plus this
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127687
$560.

Edit: Well, that might not really be comparable and would probably need a new PSU too, so NVM.

Not a bad idea, IF that rig was overclockable. But an FX chip at a paltry 2.8Ghz is going to have horrible single-threaded IPC. Need to get them to like 4.0-4.6Ghz to really shine.

Plus, as you noted, would need a new PSU too, for another $50-80.

 

[VirtualLarry]

To get an appropriate price comparison you would compare this to a new Phenom 955 system. That would be equivalent to your system.

I think $500 is high.

If you can find me a new Phenom II X4 955 BE or 965 BE rig with 4GB/500GB, and a GTX460 1GB or better, I'm all ears.

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/zt-reliant-desktop-amd-phenom-955-500gb-4gb-ddr3/prod1830329.ip

$558, without a discrete video card.

Edit: Here's one I just saw mentioned on FW for ~$500.
http://www.staples.com/HP-Pavilion-...Id=10001&CID=AFF%3A361116%3A361116%3A10422268

A10-5700 Trinity (?) CPU, 3.4Ghz quad-core, 10GB DDR3, 1TB HD, USB3.0, tower (not slimline) case.
But still, probably micro-ATX board, and you would have to purchase discrete graphics and a new PSU to go with it. Which would be another $180.

 

[RussianSensation]

Q6600 @ 3.4ghz is only as fast as a Phenom II X4 965 @ 3.4-3.6ghz. That's not setting the world on fire. Newer Bulldozer chips such as FX4170 will be faster for games since they run at 4.2ghz+.

Those deals I posted is not even trying. There are plenty of great deals that are linked weekly. Termie posted the excellent Samsung 30nm DDR3-1600 ram deal for $38 for a 8GB kit. You can find good PSUs for $50 regularly on sale. Last week for PC Power & Cooling, next week will be something else.

A Q6600 @ 3.4-3.6ghz will draw way more power than an FX4170. It's not even close. Plus, all of your parts lack modern features, have no warranty and have no upgrade path. Even a Core i3 system would be faster for games than a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz today. So really even in the Intel camp at MC, it's a better deal overall.

Not sure how you are getting that it will cost $700-750 to build a faster system today. Given that your system is used first of all, it should already cost way less.

Here is a Core i5 Refurbished system for $500. Drop a $105 HD7770ghz in there and it will beat yours in mostly everything without wasting 150-200W of extra power of Q6600 OC + GTX460.

OR

Core i5 2500k = $200
ASRock Z77M LGA + Free 60GB SSD = $80
Samsung DDR3-1600 30nm = $38
Antec 300 case = $40 new
HD7770 GE = $115
Corsair Builder 600W = $40
$513

^ Your system is soooooooooooo much worse than this.

I'd gladly pay $150 more on top of this for an OS + a mechanical hard drive than buy your 6 year old parts with no warranty, no modern features, no overclocking headroom.

Plus that HD7770 card supports DX11.1 which should boost 2D performance in Windows 8. Your 460 card cannot do this. Then when you add the 150-200W of power your system would use up vs. what I just put up, and it's not even a contest. That 2500K can later be overclocked to 4.5ghz.

Let's look at the math more closely.

Q6600 is 1st generation Core 2 Duo. Since then:

45nm c2Q increased IPC 5%
1st generation Core i7 Nehalem increased IPC 15-17.5%
2nd generation Core i7 SB increased IPC 14-15%

Thus a 2500k @ 4.5ghz = 6.2 ghz Q6600 at minimum!

Q6600 used to be amazing but its performance today even at 3.4ghz would still be slow.

You can't use the argument that your Q6600 is overclocked because 3.6ghz is a 50% overclock but 2500K overclocks to 4.5-4.7ghz. The IPC gap is gargantuan.

Not to mention Q6600 was not a real quad-core CPU but 2x Core 2 Duos merged together. The cache is not shared 8MB but 4MBx2. This wasn't a problem 5-6 years ago but it is now. That means Q6600 only has effective 4mb of cache per core for handling modern games --> Game over. That's only against 2nd generation Core i5/i7 processors. Compared to i5 2500K @ 4.5ghz, it would be laughable.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Q6600 @ 3.4ghz is only as fast as a Phenom II X4 965 @ 3.4-3.6ghz. That's not setting the world on fire. Newer Bulldozer chips such as FX4170 will be faster for games since they run at 4.2ghz+.

Well, the CPU is at 3.6, so it's therefore faster than a 965. And with the massive IPC deficit of the FX CPUs, I'm not certain that it would be faster, all things considered. Anyone got some cinebench scores for Q6600 @ 3.6 / 400FSB, and an FX-4170?

A Q6600 @ 3.4-3.6ghz will draw way more power than an FX4170. It's not even close. Plus, all of your parts lack modern features, have no warranty and have no upgrade path.

I'm not sure why you keep going on about "no warranty". I clearly stated I offered the client a 6-month hardware warranty. I have spares of all of the parts in the system, except for the RAM. As far as "no upgrade path", actually, it does have an upgrade path, a Q9550/9650 could be dropped in. But likewise, there is no upgrade path for an IB quad-core, and only a minimal upgrade path for an AM3+ FX chip. There are rumors that Piledriver is such a non-improvement, it might never be released. And that was the last scheduled AM3+ - compatible CPU family to be released.

So in short, there isn't really an upgrade path no matter which platform you choose.

Even a Core i3 system would be faster for games than a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz today. So really even in the Intel camp at MC, it's a better deal overall.

When you throw the extra multi-threaded overhead of streaming into the mix, I disagree that a dual-core i3 would be faster. HyperThreading is a very poor excuse for real cores, when you have multi-threading to do.

Not sure how you are getting that it will cost $700-750 to build a faster system today. Given that your system is used first of all, it should already cost way less.

It's a $1000 system, that I'm selling, with warranty and OS, for $500. Half price for being used one whole month seems like a deal to me.

Here is a Core i5 Refurbished system for $500. Drop a $105 HD7770ghz in there and it will beat yours in mostly everything without wasting 150-200W of extra power of Q6600 OC + GTX460.

Again, not for $500, but $605.

OR

Core i5 2500k = $200
ASRock Z77M LGA + Free 60GB SSD = $80
Samsung DDR3-1600 30nm = $38
Antec 300 case = $40 new
HD7770 GE = $115
Corsair Builder 600W = $40
$513

^ Your system is soooooooooooo much worse than this.

I'd gladly pay $150 more on top of this for an OS + a mechanical hard drive than buy your 6 year old parts with no warranty, no modern features, no overclocking headroom.

Again, $650, not $500. And my parts do have warranty, and if you don't consider 2.4Ghz to 3.6Ghz to be overclocking headroom, I don't know what you mean.

Plus that HD7770 card supports DX11.1 which should boost 2D performance in Windows 8. Your 460 card cannot do this.

Disingenuous. No-where in that article does it state that DX11.1 is required for the 2D acceleration updates that Win8 includes, save for one special feature for rendering irregular images.

Then when you add the 150-200W of power your system would use up vs. what I just put up, and it's not even a contest. That 2500K can later be overclocked to 4.5ghz.

Again, I have NEVER DISAGREED that you can PAY MORE and GET MORE.

But you have yet to show me how to build an overclocked 2500K rig, WITH OS, for the SAME PRICE as I am offering my friend.

Not to mention Q6600 was not a real quad-core CPU but 2x Core 2 Duos merged together.

What is this, AMDZONE? I should report you for trolling for that statement. Everyone knows, and agrees, that the Q6600 is just as real a quad-core as any other quad-core CPU. Just because it used MCM technology doesn't make it not a real quad-core.

Or do you consider those (I think that they were the Clarkdale) 32nm dual-core chips with the MCM'ed IGP, to not be true CPU+IGP integrated combos, because they were MCM?

The cache is not shared 8MB but 4MBx2. This wasn't a problem 5-6 years ago but it is now. That means Q6600 only has effective 4mb of cache per core for handling modern games --> Game over.

8MB of L2 cache isn't enough for modern games? Yet, people are building gaming rigs with Sandy Bridge Celeron CPUs with 2MB or 3MB of L3 cache. And yet, they seem to be "enough".

Show me a build with an overclocked 2500K for $500, including a discrete graphics card that is equal or better to a GTX460 1GB card, WITH genuine Win7 64-bit. Then I'll agree, perhaps I overcharged my friend a little bit. But these $600-700-800 builds don't cut it. Of course, you can spend more to get more.

 

[Termie]

AMD Phenom II X4 965 ($90) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103727
AsRock 970 Motherboard ($90) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157280
2x2GB DDR3-1600 ($30) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231277
Corsair 600w PSU ($40AR) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139028
Antec 300 ($40AR) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042
Seagate 500GB HD ($70) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148767
LG DVD Burner ($18) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136247
Hyper 212+ ($20AR) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103065
HD7770 ($115AR) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161402
Windows 7 ($100) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116986

Total: $573

Paying $73 more for a new machine with newer tech and lower power consumption is worthwhile to me and would be to your friend as well. That includes shipping. That computer will be superior to the one you're selling. Sorry, but you can't say you have a $1000 machine you're selling for $500. You asked for our opinions on capability and price - I can't help you on the first question (though I think you really need more power for background streaming), but I've helped you on price.

I'd say your machine is worth $400. That would be giving your friend a true deal.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sorry, Termie, your build is actually $55 more than what you listed.

Rebates for a client build are problematic. Do I force the client to buy the parts (force them to create a Newegg account -what if they don't have a CC?), and then tell them if they want the price that I quoted them, that's an AR price, and they have to hassle mailing off rebates to get that price? And what happens if the rebates don't deliver?

The only prices that I consider for client builds are the up-front prices.


So you've managed to put together an equivalent build for ~$630. That is commendable, considering that your build would use less power. But it's still not $500.

 

[Soundmanred]

$500 is high.

 

[RussianSensation]

The flaw in your logic is that $100-150 extra for a brand new build will give 50-75% more CPU speed and a 60GB SSD for OS will provide exponential performance increase in real world usage from opening multiple documents, excel, Adobe, etc. and running 50-100 tabs in Firefox/Chrome. Do that on a 500GB mechanical drive and the system will become a crawl fest. Your system will get mopped by an E6600 with an SSD in the real world snappiness. Mechanical drive is a no-no for an OS in the year 2012.

Your system also has 4GB of DDR2, not 8GB of DDR3. Everything other posters are linking here will blow your computer away in performance. I owned a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz myself so I know exactly how fast it was.

When I meant no upgrade path: Can't use USB 3.0 devices, can't buy larger SATA III SSDs down the line and take advantage of 400-500MB/sec transfer speeds, can't charge your smartphone/tablet 3x quicker with modern USB charging features of new motherboards.

Also, you are ignoring the CPU speed difference. 2500K @ 4.5ghz is 70% faster than a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz overall. 70% faster CPU performance for $150 more dollars and 3 year warranty on a brand new motherboard, CPU, GPU, SSD, thank you! You are giving him a 6 months warranty.

Your motherboard's caps/VRMs have also aged after 5-6 years of heavy use on an overclocked Q6600. You also are assigning tremendous performance towards a Q6600 processor when it's now 40-45% slower in IPC to a modern Core i5.

And now the fun part:

An overclocked Q6600 @ 3.6ghz system pulls 212W of power at idle and 318W of power at load.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-ii-x4-920-overclocking_12.html#sect0

And now modern Phenom II, Bulldozer and Core i processors:

Are you serious now? Q6600 @ 3.6ghz + GTX460 will use 250-300W more power than a Core i5 2500K + HD7770ghz at full load.

Let's do the math now. Even if your client uses his system for just 4 hours / day @ full load and it uses 250W more power at load, and keeps his computer on for 4 hours in idle (another 100W more power use over a Core i5 system), that works out to [250W (load penalty) x 4 hours + 160W (idle penalty) x 4 remaining hours in the day] x $0.15 per kWh x 250 days = $61.50 per year extra in electricity costs. If he will use the system at full load for more than 4 hours a day and keep it turned on for more than 8 hours overall, it'll be even worse. Over the ownership period of 3 years, that's $180+ extra in electricity costs alone! There goes your entire argument for not buying a pre-built Core i5 refurbished or built from scratch system I put together.

HD7770 uses 7W at idle 66W at load while GTX460 uses 122W at load at 15W at idle.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7770/24.html

So your main system draws 318W - 108W (Core i5 2500) and the GPU draws another 56W more at load = 266W more!

 

[VirtualLarry]

The flaw in your logic is that $100-150 extra for a brand new build will give 50-75% more CPU speed and a 60GB SSD for OS will provide exponential performance increase in real world usage from opening multiple documents, excel, Adobe, etc. and running 50-100 tabs in Firefox/Chrome. Do that on a 500GB mechanical drive and the system will become a crawl fest. Your system will get mopped by an E6600 with an SSD in the real world snappiness. Mechanical drive is a no-no for an OS in the year 2012.

And here we go with the SSD arguments...
Did any of your proposed builds include an SSD? I thought not.

I have a brand-new 90GB SSD that I would have loved to sell my friend and make a slight profit on it.

But the flaw in your logic is that people in the real world have budgets.

Not to mention, I was going to broach the subject of him upgrading to SSD, once larger SSD prices start dropping. Like $100 for a 256GB SSD. He wouldn't be happy with a small 60GB SSD for just the OS.

Your system also has 4GB of DDR2, not 8GB of DDR3. Everything other posters are linking here will blow your computer away in performance. I owned a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz myself so I know exactly how fast it was.

I discussed the fact that it only had 4GB of RAM in it. I told him that I was out of spare DDR2 RAM, and that he really should consider upgrading to 8GB of RAM. I showed him the Newegg page to get more of the same kind of RAM that is already in the system. ~$55.

When I meant no upgrade path: Can't use USB 3.0 devices, can't buy larger SATA III SSDs down the line, can't charge your smartphone/tablet 3-5x quicker with modern USB charging features of new motherboards.

I have PCI-E USB3.0 cards, if he needs one. You can buy larger SATA6G SSDs and use them on SATA2 ports no problem. The problem with SSDs is still price and reliability.

The issue of charging more quickly from a PC's USB port is a marginal gimmick feature. I don't know of anyone that uses that. You can always purchase an aftermarket USB self-powered hub that provides that feature, it doesn't have to be built into the motherboard. Cost, around $20.

http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Char...347151508&sr=8-6&keywords=Charge+Ipod+Usb+Hub

Also, you are ignoring the CPU speed difference. 2500K @ 4.5ghz is 70% faster than a Q6600 @ 3.4ghz overall. 70% faster CPU performance for $150 more dollars and 3 year warranty on a brand new motherboard, CPU, GPU, SSD, thank you! You are giving him a 6 months warranty.

Based on the benchmarks you posted earlier, I would say that 2500K @ 4.5 is closer to 50-55% faster than Q6600 @ 3.6. (Why you keep saying 3.4, when I clearly stated it is overclocked to 3.6, is beyond me.)

But yes, IT COSTS MORE. Why you cannot get that through your head, I don't know.

 

[RussianSensation]

And here we go with the SSD arguments...
Did any of your proposed builds include an SSD? I thought not.

But yes, IT COSTS MORE. Why you cannot get that through your head, I don't know.

No it does not cost more. If you take into account that Core i5 2500K system + SSD is miles faster than what you are selling and then consider power consumption, you are ripping your friend off.

You asked us for an honest opinion with hard facts and we gave it.


Core i5 2500k = $200
ASRock Z77M LGA + Free 60GB SSD = $80
Samsung DDR3-1600 30nm = $38
Antec 300 case = $40 new
HD7770 GE = $115
Corsair Builder 600W = $40
$513

You can drop another $20 off by going with a non-k Core i5 series CPU and going with 1 4GB stick to match your 4GB DDR2 offer.

You also have assigned $0 penalty for the fact that your parts have been overclocked, overvolted and used for 5-6 years. That's a joke right?

Right now a Phenom II X6 1045T is $90 at MicroCenter. You can bundle that CPU with GA-970A-UD3 Socket AM3+ 970 ATX motherboard for $139.99. That has 3 year warranty on all the components, all the latest features too. At most I'd pay is $400 for everything you are selling. That 1045T processor easily overclocks to 3.6ghz on stock cooling and has similar IPC to a Q6600. That means you are getting 2 extra cores which will help for streaming.

Regardless, the Core i5 pre-built above with a $20 cooler is 4.4-4.5ghz and 60-70% faster CPU speed than what you are selling.

Now let's see $650 system with an SSD would have a 70% higher CPU speed vs. a $500 5-6 year old used system that sucks 250W more power! Are you even serious?

It really doesn't matter since you have made up your mind but your price is out to lunch especially if this person is your friend. To make matters worse in just 6-7 months Intel will launch Haswell architecture which is 4 generations ahead of your Q6600. You are trying to prove to us that a 5 year old CPU with 4GB of DDR2 and a 500Gb mechanical drive system for $500 is a great deal?!

 

[VirtualLarry]

Your motherboard's caps/VRMs have also aged after 5-6 years of heavy use on an overclocked Q6600. You also are assigning tremendous performance towards a Q6600 processor when it's now 40-45% slower in IPC to a modern Core i5.

Where have you gotten this idea that this is some 6-year-old used rig? It was built new 2-3 years ago, and used for a whole month during the F@H race in Dec. as an extra rig.
The only thing that is really "used" in the whole rig is the graphics card, which is nearly 3 years old too.

I told my friend that the reason that I didn't use it as one of my main rigs was because of the power consumption.

 

[VirtualLarry]

You also have assigned $0 penalty for the fact that your parts have been overclocked, overvolted and used for 5-6 years. That's a joke right?

Voltage at 3.6 is something like 1.3125v. That's a VERY low overvolt. It's only a few notches higher than stock. It runs at 3.3Ghz at stock voltage. It's a cherry chip, as far as I'm concerned.

They haven't been "used" for more than a month though. Practically "new pull" material.

Right now a Phenom II X6 1045T is $90 at MicroCenter. You can bundle that CPU with GA-970A-UD3 Socket AM3+ 970 ATX motherboard for $139.99. That has 3 year warranty on all the components, all the latest features too. At most I'd pay is $400 for everything you are selling. That 1045T processor easily overclocks to 3.6ghz on stock cooling and has similar IPC to a Q6600. That means you are getting 2 extra cores which will help for streaming.

I picked up a 1045T when they were $139.99, and an ASrock 990FX Extreme4 board. Altogether, it was around $250 or so, plus another $80-100 for 16GB DDR3-1600.

Regardless, the Core i5 pre-built above with a $20 cooler is 4.4-4.5ghz and 60-70% faster CPU speed than what you are selling.

Now let's see $650 system with an SSD would have a 70% higher CPU speed vs. a $500 5-6 year old used system that sucks 250W more power! Are you even serious?

It really doesn't matter since you have made up your mind but your price is out to lunch especially if this person is your friend. To make matters worse in just 6-7 months Intel will launch Haswell architecture which is 4 generations ahead of your Q6600. You are trying to prove to us that a 5 year old CPU with 4GB of DDR2 and a 500Gb mechanical drive system for $500 is a great deal?!

If I was really ripping him off, I would expect to find similar systems for same or cheaper prices. And from my investigation, that isn't true.

I mean, with your mindset, why aren't you posting in the storage or GH forum, and telling everyone to buy a 2TB HD, when they are $140, instead of a 1TB HD for $100. After all, it's better price/GB, right? And in your world, budget is no object.

Btw, color me surprised that something newer/better/cheaper is on the horizon. I never would have guessed.

Why don't we look at the fixed costs of the rig?
Case: Antec 300 - $50 street price
PSU: EarthWatts 650W - $75 street price
HD: 500GB WD - I'll be generous and say $50, but we have yet to completely return to pre-flood pricing.
DVD: $20
Windows: $100

That's $295 right there.

So for $205, he is getting:
Mobo: DFI X48 LT (Extreme high-end LGA 775 board, cost $260 new)
CPU: Q6600 - still goes for $80 used, but this one is a cherry overclocker, that not only does 3.6, but does it on extremely low voltage
RAM: 2x2GB Gskill DDR2-800 - $55 new at neweggo
video: Gigabyte WindForce GTX460 1GB OC (used nearly 3 years, cost $180 new)
heatsink: Tuniq Tower 120 - cost $60 originally

plus assembly, testing, and software installation.

Still think I'm ripping him off?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Right now a Phenom II X6 1045T is $90 at MicroCenter. You can bundle that CPU with GA-970A-UD3 Socket AM3+ 970 ATX motherboard for $139.99. That has 3 year warranty on all the components, all the latest features too. At most I'd pay is $400 for everything you are selling. That 1045T processor easily overclocks to 3.6ghz on stock cooling and has similar IPC to a Q6600. That means you are getting 2 extra cores which will help for streaming.

From that xbitlabs article about Q6600 power consumption you quoted earlier:

Moreover, power consumption of an overclocked Phenom II X4 920 based system is almost the same as that of Core 2 Quad Q6600 (3.6 GHz) based system.

So if an overclocked 45nm quad-core Phenom II CPU, has similar power-consumption characteristics to a 65nm quad-core Core2 CPU, then wouldn't logically a hex-core Phenom II (still 45nm, right?), have additional power consumption? IOW, wouldn't power consumption of a 1045T @ 3.6 be 150% of the power consumption of the Q6600 @ 3.6?

I stopped using my 1045T @ 3.51 because of power-consumption reasons.