Putin likes Trump because...

[Mayne]

its easy to manipulate a man-child celebrity reality star. I really weep for you americans the next 4 years. How the fuck did you guys vote in a fucking loser like trump?

 

[Mayne]

seriously guys..how the fuck did you guys do this?

 

[raildogg]

Do you really believe world leaders are like normal people? Do you really believe that they try to manipulate each other through a relationship like normal people? Do you really believe the public appearances they make together have anything to do with reality?

A normal (or average) person will never ever be a world leader or even a high level politician. These people are there because of who they are, what they did, who their family is, etc.

Let's not bring it down to the level of the normal person. No one is manipulating anyone. They are all working together in some way or another.

 

[Mayne]

Do you really believe world leaders are like normal people? Do you really believe that they try to manipulate each other through a relationship like normal people? Do you really believe the public appearances they make together have anything to do with reality?

A normal (or average) person will never ever be a world leader or even a high level politician. These people are there because of who they are, what they did, who their family is, etc.

Let's not bring it down to the level of the normal person. No one is manipulating anyone. They are all working together in some way or another.

And thats the scary part. Obviously Putin is way smarter than shitlord Trump.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Do you really believe world leaders are like normal people? Do you really believe that they try to manipulate each other through a relationship like normal people? Do you really believe the public appearances they make together have anything to do with reality?

A normal (or average) person will never ever be a world leader or even a high level politician. These people are there because of who they are, what they did, who their family is, etc.

Let's not bring it down to the level of the normal person. No one is manipulating anyone. They are all working together in some way or another.

I would normally agree, but we have a president elect who will not listen to his advisers and posts whatever comes to mind on twitter. Most public officials speak through a filter so they don't unintentionally say the wrong thing. There seems to be little thought in his public statements. He has already been manipulated several times. The publication that posted a trump cafe review comes to mind. They twisted it into increased subscription sales. Others have done it through twitter posts that Trump liked or didn't like. If people and businesses can do it governments will be able to do it as well.

 

[Mayne]

I would normally agree, but we have a president elect who will not listen to his advisers and posts whatever comes to mind on twitter. Most public officials speak through a filter so they don't unintentionally say the wrong thing. There seems to be little thought in his public statements. He has already been manipulated several times. The publication that posted a trump cafe review comes to mind. They twisted it into increased subscription sales. Others have done it through twitter posts that Trump liked or didn't like. If people and businesses can do it governments will be able to do it as well.

my thoughts exactly. It's one thing to troll forums which I tend to do..but troll the whole world..not cool man.

 

[theeedude]

Trump is a lobotomy for Putin's biggest geopolitical rival country.

 

[UNCjigga]

I will come up with a non-biased explanation for why Putin likes Trump. Does he think Trump can be controlled, like a puppet? Probably not. Does he think Trump would be easier to negotiate with than Hillary? Definitely.

I think Putin sees Trump as an ally with which he can finally build a military or foreign policy coalition with no strings attached. Someone who will not explicitly champion the interests of NATO. Someone who will not point fingers at human rights abuses. Putin wants to work with a realist. He's tired of 8 years of Obama and EU liberal foreign policy that's stymied him everywhere. He's hopeful that he can finally work with someone who can agree to have Assad stay in place and bring Turkey, Iraq, Egypt and Israel to the table for ending ISIL in the Levant. Someone who'll turn a blind eye to Russia's growing influence and election meddling amongst the breakaway republics. Someone who'll agree that Crimea is part of the Russian Federation.




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[UNCjigga]

I think one area that Putin and Trump might agree on is a framework for peace in the Middle East based on economic self-interest vs. any sort of altruistic goals. Something that doesn't hinge on a 2-state solution for Israel and Palestine, but perhaps on some sort of Sunni/Shia/Kurd coalition on oil rights in Iraq/Syria/Libya. Everyone can profit! The people can have peace. Who gives a damn about human rights!


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[BurnItDwn]

Most of us didnt, however, our politicians have spent the last 100 years gerrymandering and suppressing votes. Also, they spend all their effort running for office, and almost none of it actually doing their damn jobs.

We should throw them all into the sun

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I thought you were from Ohio. You're Canadian Mayne?

 

[BurnItDwn]

I thought you were from Ohio. You're Canadian Mayne?

yes, thats why he is confused about Trump.

He thought Trump would have made a great Mayor, but, not a president!

 

[werepossum]

And thats the scary part. Obviously Putin is way smarter than shitlord Trump.

Who in turn in way smarter than Hillary.

It's abundantly clear why Putin likes Trump: He isn't Hillary. If unclear, cross-reference "Syrian civil war".

 

[FIVR]

Putin likes Trump for many reasons but chiefly because he will weaken the US geopolitically and economically and he will lift sanctions and Russia. Putin knows this because the SVR did extensive research on both Clinton and Trump and found Trump to be an easily manipulated buffoon who eschewed almost every political and human social norm and was basically an empty vessel that Putin could fill with pro-Russian policies.


In reality I don't think Putin actually "likes" Trump as a human being... he probably regards him as most sensible people do: As an immensely rich egoist with poor business sense and a massive chip on his shoulder.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Tell me this- why shouldn't I like Putin?

Because he rules Russia with an iron fist? He isn't the worst dictator in the world if he can even be called that, not by a long shot.

He has stabilized Russia which is less scary in terrorists get a nuke kind of way. He goes after Isis in a way we can't stomach after the Iraq War. His worst crimes (taking Crimea or going after Georgia) are pretty comparable to some of the shit the USA has pulled in our hemisphere the last century. He isn't a saint but he could be an ally.

I think the western world needs to accept not every culture can handle a democracy in 2017. Some of our worst failures as a country came from trying to force democracy in places that can't handle it. We need to stop that.

Just because Putin is a strong ruler in the place that was most of the USSR doesn't mean that a new Cold War is upon us.

The real threat is a growing China as it continues to show a dominance in its hemisphere. Closer relations to Russia might be a partner to held balance their growing aggression. The only other parter in the US's world that could (the EU) has too many internal problems to deal with.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I will come up with a non-biased explanation for why Putin likes Trump. Does he think Trump can be controlled, like a puppet? Probably not. Does he think Trump would be easier to negotiate with than Hillary? Definitely.

I think Putin sees Trump as an ally with which he can finally build a military or foreign policy coalition with no strings attached. Someone who will not explicitly champion the interests of NATO. Someone who will not point fingers at human rights abuses. Putin wants to work with a realist. He's tired of 8 years of Obama and EU liberal foreign policy that's stymied him everywhere. He's hopeful that he can finally work with someone who can agree to have Assad stay in place and bring Turkey, Iraq, Egypt and Israel to the table for ending ISIL in the Levant. Someone who'll turn a blind eye to Russia's growing influence and election meddling amongst the breakaway republics. Someone who'll agree that Crimea is part of the Russian Federation.




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^ pretty much this, plus Putin had a score to settle with the Clintons for Bill's expansion of NATO influence into the Balkans, and from there, into other former communist block countries. The bombing of Serbia during the Kosovo campaign, and Clinton's decision not to consult or forewarn the Russians prior, was essentially the last straw.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._the_u_s_bombed_kosovo_in_1999_putin_has.html

 

[FIVR]

Tell me this- why shouldn't I like Putin?

There are zero good answers to this question.


A better question to ask yourself, is how many reasons are there for you to love Putin? Now that he is your new SuperPrez you should make a list. Check it every week and make up a new reason to love

 

[desura]

Yeah, Putin likes Trump because of sanctions and NATO and so forth.

But objectively, it was our "democracy promotion" in Ukraine which led to the problem in the first place. And the Baltic States do need to be kicked out of NATO ASAP. I sure as hell don't think it's worth a war over them. They are more important to Russia than they are to us.

This breakdown in relations is 75% our fault and 25% Russia's fault. It is completely unnecessary. Just respect boundaries and we can get along fine.

I swear, the fact that so few people in government have actually served in uniform goes to show the problem. Like, all of these think tank academics come up through the university system where their thought is shaped by the PC culture which subtly biases their thinking.

 

[UNCjigga]

Yeah, Putin likes Trump because of sanctions and NATO and so forth.

But objectively, it was our "democracy promotion" in Ukraine which led to the problem in the first place. And the Baltic States do need to be kicked out of NATO ASAP. I sure as hell don't think it's worth a war over them. They are more important to Russia than they are to us.

This breakdown in relations is 75% our fault and 25% Russia's fault. It is completely unnecessary. Just respect boundaries and we can get along fine.

I swear, the fact that so few people in government have actually served in uniform goes to show the problem. Like, all of these think tank academics come up through the university system where their thought is shaped by the PC culture which subtly biases their thinking.

Well, to be fair, the university "PC culture" probably said the same exact thing about Vietnam back in the day... Not sure the people in uniform were listening then.


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[desura]

Does anyone have a better solution for Syria? I really have no problem with Assad. I don't think it is worth our time or effort to try and set up a government in Syria for what would probably quickly devolve into sharia stupidity. Better to let the Awalites do whatever there, as long as they keep it stable.

 

[poofyhairguy]

There are zero good answers to this question.

Welcome to a Mayne thread. I like to play along.

A better question to ask yourself, is how many reasons are there for you to love Putin? Now that he is your new SuperPrez you should make a list. Check it every week and make up a new reason to love

Only if I can put gold stars on it too.

 

[agent00f]

its easy to manipulate a man-child celebrity reality star. I really weep for you americans the next 4 years. How the fuck did you guys vote in a fucking loser like trump?

Putin doesn't really "like" trump nearly as much as trump loves anyone who'll compliment him. The nature of that situation is obvious to anyone who's familiar with one-sided relationships.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

As I suggested partially in another thread, you could trace this back to Snowden's defection and the current administration's (and Hillary's cabinet-term) treatment of the Russians over Ukraine and other issues. Of course, the Repubs are saying "they were weak." The Repubs need any kind of faux-argument or specious assertion because they've been desperate for a return to power, and they'll say anything -- and did say anything -- to get there.

Better yet -- trace it back to George Kennan's "white-paper" for the JCS laying out a strategic doctrine to wage Cold War. There were identifiable "periods" or eras. There was the Great Stalinist Scare and the McCarthy Era. With Khrushchev's succession and Stalin's death, and after the Korean Armistice, there was this lingering fear according to Kennan's view of reality of an International Communist Conspiracy -- a Monster Plot -- in which they were all "working together." Then, there was the Sino-Soviet Split in 1960, followed by American paranoids like counterintelligence chief James Angleton's Monster Plot theory that the split was "phony," [there were two KGBs, etc. etc.]

Given our history with Chennault, Vinegar-Joe Stilwell and China against the Japanese, the strategic doctrine would morph into an idea of driving a wedge between USSR and China. Nixon had no problem making overtures to the Chinese because the Chinese had a minimal involvement in Vietnam, for reasons going back hundreds of years.

So we come to this: with the Asshole President-Elect as somehow Putin's ever faithful apologist. Putin misses the Cold War, or what he and some Russians see as a golden era of Russian presence in the world. If Trump were a thinking person -- like Putin -- he would balance our trade relationship with China against a posture with the Russians. But he doesn't do that.

He doesn't do it because he's Putin's Little Bitch. Instead of just "renegotiating" our trade relations with China, Trump violates the long-standing policy over Taiwan -- which has been always an incidental but established diplomatic posture. It is as if he wants to do everything he can to damage US-China relations.

The West, the Russians and the Japanese have variously partitioned Asia in various ways, and Taiwan seems to fit that category. Howsoever this is supposed to play out, it had been stable.

I thank our Toronto forum member for posing the question. Please tell me though -- aren't there the same proportion of assholes to normal people in Canada as there are here? Because it seems to me we have the larger share. [Of course, if California has 3 million undocumented, and Hillary's count was 3 million over Asshole's, then she didn't really win the popular vote. Another Asshole argument.]

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Words because words are important