Put Ultraviolet Dye in the Water Cannon to track protesters.. says one official

[Oldgamer]

Police commissioners have urged the Met to put ultraviolet dye in its new water cannon in order to track people hit by the weapons, Boris Johnson’s policing boss has said.
Stephen Greenhalgh, Deputy Mayor for Policing and Crime, told members of the London Assembly that police and crime commissioners from around the country had advocated the use of “SmartWater” in the crowd control weapon.
The substance would remain invisible until those hit by the water had an ultra-violent light shone on them, at which point it would glow fluorescent yellow and identify them as having been at a protest or other public order situation.
SmartWater is normally used to invisibly mark valuable belongings such as laptops so that the police can trace their owners if they are ever stolen, and also to permanently stain the clothes of people involved in burglaries.
Greenhalgh said there was a “range of views” among police commissioners about the plans to purchase the weapons.

“[Some PCCs] recognise that there is a case for their utility, although they would not want to see them being used,” he explained.
“I’ve equally had other PCCs who are vehemently in favour of it and suggesting putting SmartWater into the water cannons so they can identify people. There’s a range of views.”

Greenhalgh made the revelation at the London Assembly’s Police and Crime Committee, which scrutinises the Mayor’s record on policing.
Police commissioners from other forces have no direct decision making power over the Metropolitan Police, but their advice is often sought on matters that could have national implications.

The Mayor of London has bought three water cannon for the Metropolitan Police, though the Home Secretary has yet to authorise their use.
The Metropolitan Police says the cannon will fill “a gap in public order tactics” but there are concerns that the weapons, which can kill and blind people, could constitute a disproportionate use of force by the police.


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Wow the UK is really becoming more and more like the dystopian, oppressive society that was depicted in the movie "Vendetta".

This would discourage peaceful protesting, and could possibly hit more peaceful citizens and not just aggressive ones. This way they can follow you and then arrest you later, and put you in jail for doing what is suppose to be a legal event.

 

[xBiffx]

This would discourage peaceful protesting, and could possibly hit more peaceful citizens and not just aggressive ones. This way they can follow you and then arrest you later, and put you in jail for doing what is suppose to be a legal event.

The police don't normally stop peaceful and lawful protests. Its when they get out of hand that the police have to resort to crowd control measures. If the police are threatening to use force to break up a protest and you are one of those socalled "more peaceful citizens" its best to GTFO. You remain at your own peril. Did you forget that detail in your little tirade? NVM, I remember who I'm talking to now. Fuck da police! Amiright?

 

[Oldgamer]

The police don't normally stop peaceful and lawful protests. Its when they get out of hand that the police have to resort to crowd control measures. If the police are threatening to use force to break up a protest and you are one of those socalled "more peaceful citizens" its best to GTFO. You remain at your own peril. Did you forget that detail in your little tirade? NVM, I remember who I'm talking to now. Fuck da police! Amiright?

This is unethical in my opinion and wreaks of a police state. It reminds me of what other oppressive countries have done, like when Apartheid protesters came out and they fired purple water all over them to track and arrest them. I have seen a lot of the UK do protesting (in the past), some peaceful and some where people are rightfully upset about something. The raucousness is usually instigated by something the police officials do most times that escalates things. All this does is discourage peaceful protesting, and scare anyone from legally voicing themselves in a public manner.

 

[Genx87]

The police don't normally stop peaceful and lawful protests. Its when they get out of hand that the police have to resort to crowd control measures. If the police are threatening to use force to break up a protest and you are one of those socalled "more peaceful citizens" its best to GTFO. You remain at your own peril. Did you forget that detail in your little tirade? NVM, I remember who I'm talking to now. Fuck da police! Amiright?

This of course forgets why often times protests get out of control. The police prod the protestors into a confrontation which then leads to a riot. So lets get this straight. The state pushes a peaceful protest into a riot. Then marks them for arrest later? What could possibly go wrong with this situation? The state doesnt like being protested. Time to send out the goons to poke the tiger in the eye. When the tiger responds shoot it(spray protestors with a dye and arrest them after the riot has subsided).

 

[Oldgamer]

Anyone remember what the British Police did to these peaceful elderly disabled protesters? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-police-protest-cuts-free-travel-passes.html

 

[Oldgamer]

This of course forgets why often times protests get out of control. The police prod the protesters into a confrontation which then leads to a riot. So lets get this straight. The state pushes a peaceful protest into a riot. Then marks them for arrest later? What could possibly go wrong with this situation? The state doesn't like being protested. Time to send out the goons to poke the tiger in the eye. When the tiger responds shoot it(spray protestors with a dye and arrest them after the riot has subsided).

Exactly right..

 

[xBiffx]

This is unethical in my opinion and wreaks of a police state. It reminds me of what other oppressive countries have done, like when Apartheid protesters came out and they fired purple water all over them to track and arrest them. I have seen a lot of the UK do protesting (in the past), some peaceful and some where people are rightfully upset about something. The raucousness is usually instigated by something the police officials do most times that escalates things. All this does is discourage peaceful protesting, and scare anyone from legally voicing themselves in a public manner.

Still don't see the problem here. If you wan to protest peacefully, you should have nothing to worry about. Oh, nevermind, the bolded allows us to understand why you are against this. Guess I can't convince you otherwise because you see cops as the evildoers and not peace keepers. I understand that they aren't always perfect but to be paranoid that they are going to UV water cannon your peaceful protest because that's what they always do is pretty ignorant thought.

 

[xBiffx]

This of course forgets why often times protests get out of control. The police prod the protestors into a confrontation which then leads to a riot. So lets get this straight. The state pushes a peaceful protest into a riot. Then marks them for arrest later? What could possibly go wrong with this situation? The state doesnt like being protested. Time to send out the goons to poke the tiger in the eye. When the tiger responds shoot it(spray protestors with a dye and arrest them after the riot has subsided).

It happens, sure. But to think you can't protest because the cops ALWAYS initiate the unrest is pretty silly. Their presence sometimes insights idiots but the problem is some people are stupid in the first place, not that the cops showed up just in case things get out of hand.

 

[Oldgamer]

Still don't see the problem here. If you wan to protest peacefully, you should have nothing to worry about. Oh, nevermind, the bolded allows us to understand why you are against this. Guess I can't convince you otherwise because you see cops as the evildoers and not peace keepers. I understand that they aren't always perfect but to be paranoid that they are going to UV water cannon your peaceful protest because that's what they always do is pretty ignorant thought.

Oh I get it now, your a "Thatcher" lover.. got it. Screw the little people, let the rich rule amaright?

 

[xBiffx]

Oh I get it now, your a "Thatcher" lover.. got it. Screw the little people, let the rich rule amaright?

Yep, you got me.

Last time I checked, the police weren't part of the rich. The police usually only act when they are threatened or public safety is threatened. But you want to make it seem like the police are ALWAYS the instigators. If that is your position, then I see no point in arguing further.

 

[Oldgamer]

Yep, you got me.

Last time I checked, the police weren't part of the rich. The police usually only act when they are threatened. But you want to make it seem like the police are ALWAYS the instigators. If that is your position, then I see no point in arguing further.

Head in the sand much? The police are owned by the rich.

 

[Genx87]

It happens, sure. But to think you can't protest because the cops ALWAYS initiate the unrest is pretty silly. Their presence sometimes insights idiots but the problem is some people are stupid in the first place, not that the cops showed up just in case things get out of hand.

It has a cooling effect on peaceful protests. Who wants to risk the state deciding to poke the protest into a riot then get sprayed with a dye and get arrested walking home?

Ask yourself. Does being at a protest that gets out of hand make you an automatic criminal? What is the role of the police in such a situation? I think the role is for the police to disperse said crowd and restore the peace. So what does arresting people not in the act of rioting accomplish except as a warning to not protest at all?

 

[xBiffx]

Head in the sand much? The police are owned by the rich.

Since they are paid by taxpayers, it would appear that the taxpayers or to use your lingo, "the little people" own them. Either way, the rich are hardly out there ordering them to instigate every riot.

 

[xBiffx]

Who wants to risk the state deciding to poke the protest into a riot then get sprayed with a dye and get arrested walking home?

The same people who want to risk getting shot with a rubber bullet, or tear gassed, and then hauled away in a paddy wagon?

I don't see how this tool changes anything in regards to the dangers of engaging in civil unrest or large scale protest.

Ask yourself. Does being at a protest that gets out of hand make you an automatic criminal? What is the role of the police in such a situation? I think the role is for the police to disperse said crowd and restore the peace. So what does arresting people not in the act of rioting accomplish except as a warning to not protest at all?

I didn't see where if you are found with UV on you and arrested, you are automatically a criminal.

When there is a riot on your hands, arresting people is one way to stop the riot. They aren't arresting people for just showing up. They are dousing them with UV and arresting after a riot has ensued. This is just another tool to keep the peace and disperse the crowd, which you agree is the role of police.

 

[Thebobo]

This of course forgets why often times protests get out of control. The police prod the protestors into a confrontation which then leads to a riot. So lets get this straight. The state pushes a peaceful protest into a riot. Then marks them for arrest later? What could possibly go wrong with this situation? The state doesnt like being protested. Time to send out the goons to poke the tiger in the eye. When the tiger responds shoot it(spray protestors with a dye and arrest them after the riot has subsided).

Yep happened quite often in the Vientman war protest, cival rights and lately OWS protest In the past the police have had informants in protesting groups as well as corperations groups have pushed peacefull protest to violence.
http://my.firedoglake.com/phoenix/2011/10/09/nlg-cops-and-informants-cause-most-protest-violence/

Anyone remeber COINTELPRO? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

 

[smackababy]

Can we put acid, rather than UV dye, in the water instead? That will teach those rioters a thing or two!

 

[Rakehellion]

But you want to make it seem like the police are ALWAYS the instigators.

The police should NEVER be the instigators. They're like the boyfriend who beats the shit out of you and then apologizes with a box of chocolates. That isn't a healthy exchange.

 

[Rakehellion]

Since they are paid by taxpayers, it would appear that the taxpayers or to use your lingo, "the little people" own them. Either way, the rich are hardly out there ordering them to instigate every riot.

Politicians are paid by taxpayers too, but they aren't controlled by them. Tell a cop who pulls you over at a traffic stop that you pay his salary and therefore control him and let us know what happens.

 

[Oldgamer]

Can we put acid, rather than UV dye, in the water instead? That will teach those rioters a thing or two!

I think someone sadistic and mentally unbalanced like you would enjoy that wouldn't ya? Fuck those protesters for protesting in the first place right??

/rollseyes

 

[Zaap]

The saddest thing is these are just people following the orders of the same political buffoons some people believe are going to float them a guaranteed income.

Yes, sure. As the nanny states blow everyone's money into endless debt, the powers that be are drawing up plans on how to give the angry masses everything their little hearts desire... That is right after they're done instructing their enforcers to spay you with dye. So they can later find you for your payoff!

 

[smackababy]

I think someone sadistic and mentally unbalanced like you would enjoy that wouldn't ya? Fuck those protesters for protesting in the first place right??

/rollseyes

They don't go around spraying people peacefully protesting. Sure, it might have happened, but that is far from the norm. An angry mob of people can easily turn violent. And when it does, the only people that face the consequences are those who were caught in the act. UV dye would allow police to have a way to possible identify people who participated.

You responses remind me of the UC Davis pepper spray incident. A 20 second video of some kids being pepper sprayed and you're all up in arms "OMG police brutality! OMG!". You completely ignore the 20 minutes of, later released and not reported on, video that shows what really happened before they pepper sprayed those "peaceful protesters". You know, where a mob of protesters surrounded a group of police informing people they cannot camp in that location, threatened them, and then refused to allow them to leave.

 

[Oldgamer]

They don't go around spraying people peacefully protesting. Sure, it might have happened, but that is far from the norm. An angry mob of people can easily turn violent. And when it does, the only people that face the consequences are those who were caught in the act. UV dye would allow police to have a way to possible identify people who participated.

You responses remind me of the UC Davis pepper spray incident. A 20 second video of some kids being pepper sprayed and you're all up in arms "OMG police brutality! OMG!". You completely ignore the 20 minutes of, later released and not reported on, video that shows what really happened before they pepper sprayed those "peaceful protesters". You know, where a mob of protesters surrounded a group of police informing people they cannot camp in that location, threatened them, and then refused to allow them to leave.

*Brick Wall* that is all you are...