Push for $15 minimum wage

[Enigmoid]

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http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2015/wom...gs-in-2014.htm

Women, biologically speaking, are the only gender that can have kids. With all that is involved in children, pregnancy, and childbirth (time off, wanting to spend time with the baby, etc) it is perfectly reasonable for men on average to be earning more than women as long as the cause is self-motivated (wanting a family, less work pressure, etc).

You have brushed aside Spungo's comment on taking time off for kids being the predominant reason for the gender pay gap (instead criticizing her on cherry picking age groups).

Spungo's comments on wages are quite simple to understand. She is basically saying that there is no real wage gap. The perceived gap in aggregate pay between women and men is due to life choices. A woman and a man doing the same job get paid exactly the same.

 

[JSt0rm]

It makes sense to me that women make less if they have children. However women making less because they MAY have children is wrong.

 

[child of wonder]

Minimum wage definitely needs to go up but not to $15/hr. Maybe in some of the highest cost of living areas, something near that would be justified but not for Nebraska, Florida, etc.

Minimum wage should be enough for a single person with no special expenses (massive student loan debt, medical bills, and so on) to be able to support themselves if they work 40 hours a week. "Supporting" may mean sharing a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate, driving a 15 year old car, and eating modest, home cooked meals.

Minimum wage should not be a livable wage for someone with a child, someone with $50k in student loan debt, and so on. It's meant to be the bare minimum pay an individual can subsist on in my opinion.

 

[fskimospy]

Women, biologically speaking, are the only gender that can have kids. With all that is involved in children, pregnancy, and childbirth (time off, wanting to spend time with the baby, etc) it is perfectly reasonable for men on average to be earning more than women as long as the cause is self-motivated (wanting a family, less work pressure, etc).

You have brushed aside Spungo's comment on taking time off for kids being the predominant reason for the gender pay gap (instead criticizing her on cherry picking age groups).

Spungo's comments on wages are quite simple to understand. She is basically saying that there is no real wage gap. The perceived gap in aggregate pay between women and men is due to life choices. A woman and a man doing the same job get paid exactly the same.

She actually didn't claim that at all. She made a specific statement that was easily shown to be wrong.

If you think otherwise, quote it.

 

[alcoholbob]

That doesn't make any sense. Why would full automation happen in Asia where wages are already low but not happen in America "because of downward pressure on wage".

Sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about.

Automation has nothing to do with absolute wage levels, but more about the supply of cheap labor relative to the cost of developing automation. In Japan there's already tons of automation in daily life, from kiosks that dispense everything from fully made meals, to public toilets that clean your ass (lol) to android machines that greet you in hotels or in stores. My impression of Japan last summer was it felt like I was in a futuristic society compared to the stone age amenities in most places in America.

Are you arguing that a constantly expanding supply of cheap labor that exceeds the rate of job creation does not delay automation?

 

[JSt0rm]

I see what you are saying. Yes I guess as wages decrease across the board we won't see as much movement in automation. However if they remove, for say, all professional drivers by automating the job that's a big savings. As these systems look to more and more complicated things to automate they will see more and more savings because those are higher paying jobs. Removing humans from the everyday of engineering or basic science would have a huge effect on both productivity and as a disruption of those jobs.

 

[OverVolt]

Automation has nothing to do with absolute wage levels, but more about the supply of cheap labor relative to the cost of developing automation. In Japan there's already tons of automation in daily life, from kiosks that dispense everything from fully made meals, to public toilets that clean your ass (lol) to android machines that greet you in hotels or in stores. My impression of Japan last summer was it felt like I was in a futuristic society compared to the stone age amenities in most places in America.

Are you arguing that a constantly expanding supply of cheap labor that exceeds the rate of job creation does not delay automation?

Yea well demographics wise Japan is going to be Easter Island 2.0 if something doesn't change.

You can get meals out of vending machines because of Karoshi. A dwindling number of prime age working people are carrying the entire burden of Japanese industry. I wouldn't make that trade for a robot butt wiper any day .

 

[Orignal Earl]

Yeah but women don't want to work those dirty jobs that pay all that dirty money plus benefits. Directing money to study things that lead to jobs for men would be sexist.

Living in today's gynocentric society is frustrating. I know I'm not alone here, but I don't want to date a guy who earns significantly less money than me. It would be nice if the government did something to get men into fields that pay well such as engineering, plumbing, welding, or any other trade. Instead, we see the exact opposite. Women-only scholarships exist, but men-only scholarships are sexist. Giving any amount of funding into anything dominated by men is called sexist and is shut down immediately. What is the result? The dating pool is horrendous. Women are earning more than ever, but men are earning less and dropping out of the labor force because the government (aka feminists) fight tooth and nail to keep men down.

That turned into a bit of a rant, but it's something that always bothers me. Society does everything possible to create the most pathetic and unemployable men on the planet, and then we wonder why marriage rates and birth rates are falling. What self respecting woman would marry any of these losers who major in communications and work at starbucks? We don't want to date losers. We want real men with real jobs that pay real income and are capable of supporting a family. I'm not expecting a free ride. I just want a man capable of contributing something. A husband should be an asset rather than a liability.

Pics?

 

[buckshot24]

Minimum wage should be enough for a single person with no special expenses (massive student loan debt, medical bills, and so on) to be able to support themselves if they work 40 hours a week. "Supporting" may mean sharing a 2 bedroom apartment with a roommate, driving a 15 year old car, and eating modest, home cooked meals.

Regardless if the value the employee is providing to their employer justifies that wage? And what about teens living with their parents?

 

[OverVolt]

If spungo were a crazy cat lady that would make alot of sense.

 

[child of wonder]

Regardless if the value the employee is providing to their employer justifies that wage? And what about teens living with their parents?

If the employee doesn't justify $10/HR (a reasonable minimum wage for most areas) then they should be fired and replaced.

It isn't the employer's responsibility to determine what an employee deserves based on their living situation only what they're worth. What about the teen working to support a disabled parent or a family in tough times? Should they get less than minimum wage merely due to their age?

 

[UglyCasanova]

If the employee doesn't justify $10/HR (a reasonable minimum wage for most areas) then they should be fired and replaced.

It isn't the employer's responsibility to determine what an employee deserves based on their living situation only what they're worth. What about the teen working to support a disabled parent or a family in tough times? Should they get less than minimum wage merely due to their age?

A wage isn't justified by a person, but rather the economic impact that job creates when performed. If a job being performed doesn't create enough wealth to justify it, it's cut.

 

[sandorski]

A wage isn't justified by a person, but rather the economic impact that job creates when performed. If a job being performed doesn't create enough wealth to justify it, it's cut.

I don't believe this to be an accurate representation to a persons Wage. At the bottom end of Jobs, this is likely trueish, but the levels above the Minimum of Wages are not determined this way. Those will be more Relative to the Minimum, than Relative to economic impact. Meaning, a person with a higher economic impact will be paid more than someone at Minimum, but it won't be determined as a 1:1 in relation to their economic impact. It will be high enough to keep that person, regardless whether that person is 1.x or n.x more beneficial.

 

[MagickMan]

I'm talking about far beyond all of that retard. Try to keep up.

I know what you're talking about, dipshit. Roddenberry told it better than you ever could. It's a damned fiction, a fairy tale, mankind will destroy itself long before we ever come close to global peace and communist utopia.

 

[JSt0rm]

Lol. It's happening right now. We will have our first real glimpse at it when all vehicles are automated. That will be the biggest example. After that. I think low skilled workers will be the safest for a while. High skill jobs being automated will save tons.

 

[pcgeek11]

Yeah but women don't want to work those dirty jobs that pay all that dirty money plus benefits. Directing money to study things that lead to jobs for men would be sexist.

Living in today's gynocentric society is frustrating. I know I'm not alone here, but I don't want to date a guy who earns significantly less money than me. It would be nice if the government did something to get men into fields that pay well such as engineering, plumbing, welding, or any other trade. Instead, we see the exact opposite. Women-only scholarships exist, but men-only scholarships are sexist. Giving any amount of funding into anything dominated by men is called sexist and is shut down immediately. What is the result? The dating pool is horrendous. Women are earning more than ever, but men are earning less and dropping out of the labor force because the government (aka feminists) fight tooth and nail to keep men down.

That turned into a bit of a rant, but it's something that always bothers me. Society does everything possible to create the most pathetic and unemployable men on the planet, and then we wonder why marriage rates and birth rates are falling. What self respecting woman would marry any of these losers who major in communications and work at starbucks? We don't want to date losers. We want real men with real jobs that pay real income and are capable of supporting a family. I'm not expecting a free ride. I just want a man capable of contributing something. A husband should be an asset rather than a liability.

No truer words have ever been spoken!

Well Done Spungo, Very well done.

"gynocentric society" that is one way of saying it.

 

[compuwiz1]

Yeah but women don't want to work those dirty jobs that pay all that dirty money plus benefits. Directing money to study things that lead to jobs for men would be sexist.

Living in today's gynocentric society is frustrating. I know I'm not alone here, but I don't want to date a guy who earns significantly less money than me. It would be nice if the government did something to get men into fields that pay well such as engineering, plumbing, welding, or any other trade. Instead, we see the exact opposite. Women-only scholarships exist, but men-only scholarships are sexist. Giving any amount of funding into anything dominated by men is called sexist and is shut down immediately. What is the result? The dating pool is horrendous. Women are earning more than ever, but men are earning less and dropping out of the labor force because the government (aka feminists) fight tooth and nail to keep men down.

That turned into a bit of a rant, but it's something that always bothers me. Society does everything possible to create the most pathetic and unemployable men on the planet, and then we wonder why marriage rates and birth rates are falling. What self respecting woman would marry any of these losers who major in communications and work at starbucks? We don't want to date losers. We want real men with real jobs that pay real income and are capable of supporting a family. I'm not expecting a free ride. I just want a man capable of contributing something. A husband should be an asset rather than a liability.

Holy chit! My next door neighbor is a nurse practitioner and makes around $90k per year. Her husband has been in and out of college, eventually getting an MBA. Only took about 10 years, while he goofed off with his buddies, hung out in bars, played golf, went to casinos and worked a few retail part time jobs. To his credit, he did cook a few meals, do the dishes and vacuum the house, but not much else. They have 3 kids, one in second year of community college and the other two are in high school.

She works her ass off, being full time Nurse and Mother, yet he doesn't work and just screws off all day, tinkering with stuff in the garage or taking off with his little boat to go fishing, while I'm sure, spending money she makes. He comes home and BBQ's, swills beer and talks about how much he knows about everything. The guy can tell you everything you want to know, but yet, can't seem to provide anything of value to his family. She confided in my wife that she wished she had not married him, but at this point, it's all about the kids until they are grown, graduated and gone, then she's gonna kick him to the curb. What a dead beat!

 

[michal1980]

It makes sense to me that women make less if they have children. However women making less because they MAY have children is wrong.

Ahh women make slightly less then men when the same jobs are compared. Libs like to make it seem like theres a huge wage gap when one does not exist.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-ad-says-women-are-paid-77-cents-dolla/

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl..._that_women_make_77_cents_to_every_man_s.html

 

[michal1980]

Pics?

Whats your address so I can sign up up for your sexist of the week membership?

 

[OverVolt]

Holy chit! My next door neighbor is a nurse practitioner and makes around $90k per year. Her husband has been in and out of college, eventually getting an MBA. Only took about 10 years, while he goofed off with his buddies, hung out in bars, played golf, went to casinos and worked a few retail part time jobs. To his credit, he did cook a few meals, do the dishes and vacuum the house, but not much else. They have 3 kids, one in second year of community college and the other two are in high school.

She works her ass off, being full time Nurse and Mother, yet he doesn't work and just screws off all day, tinkering with stuff in the garage or taking off with his little boat to go fishing, while I'm sure, spending money she makes. He comes home and BBQ's, swills beer and talks about how much he knows about everything. The guy can tell you everything you want to know, but yet, can't seem to provide anything of value to his family. She confided in my wife that she wished she had not married him, but at this point, it's all about the kids until they are grown, graduated and gone, then she's gonna kick him to the curb. What a dead beat!

Women are better home makers than men. This Dual income stuff is a mess for the next generation, IMO. I'm glad women can support themselves should they choose, but the workforce is screwed. There are alot of mixed messages about what is expected and women are getting the brunt of it trying to do it all.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Whats your address so I can sign up up for your sexist of the week membership?

She said she wants a man like me
You American pathetic loser SJW's types don't cut it

 

[Hugo Drax]

What would happen in the future when due to automation and outsourcing the majority of jobs in America are minimum wage jobs?

You would have to see the effects of deflation kick in. if in 30 years most jobs are 9 dollar part time jobs.

Then we will have to see deflation kick in.

 

[fskimospy]

What would happen in the future when due to automation and outsourcing the majority of jobs in America are minimum wage jobs?

You would have to see the effects of deflation kick in. if in 30 years most jobs are 9 dollar part time jobs.

Then we will have to see deflation kick in.

Deflation due to automation is an ever present risk, it's not new or anything. This is something we have had policy set up to fight against for a long time now. If it turns out in the future it's insufficient to fight deflation then we would have to come up with some new policies like a basic income.

The most important thing is that deflation should never be allowed to happen for any reason. We can always prevent that, it just depends on if we have sufficient will.

 

[Spungo]

I didn't just name one, I named several. You conveniently edited them out.

I edited those out because you're trying to move the goalposts. Show me one case where a program is specifically designed to get more men into any of those fields, and it discriminates against women to do so. Show me a case where the government wants to increase funding to STEM while decreasing funding to liberal arts (gender studies), and it's not attacked by feminists.
Can you find even 1 case of affirmative action for men? Are there male-only scholarships for petroleum engineering? There are lots of female-only programs to push women into engineering and trades. One guy made a scholarship that is white-only and male-only just to prove a point, and the media proved him right by laughing at it and calling it both racist and sexist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mqu2m9DBCE
There are hundreds of scholarships and programs to get women into trades or to get minorities into trades, but the media never attacks those for being sexist or racist.

The rest of this is just ranting on random tangents you decided to bring up.

You asked about organized discrimination against men, and I named several with examples and case studies.

Guess what, there are plenty of people who would make good mates who make less money than you. You've decided to apply your own arbitrary filter and then whine about how society isn't catering to you. That's your problem, so grow up and deal with it.

So you're saying you expect a pregnant woman to work a full time job plus overtime up until her water breaks, and you expect her back in the work force immediately after having a baby? Get real. Being pregnant is not the same as being obese or carrying around weights. Being pregnant is different because the body is burning through its reserves for the sake of growing a baby. Being pregnant is like being infected with a parasite or fighting the flu. It's an enormous drain on a woman's energy. You can't seriously expect me to be flying around the world and commissioning engineering projects while pregnant. This is where men are needed. Men need to take care of women when women are incapable of caring for themselves. That's what husbands do. Without a husband, having a baby is a one way trip to poverty for the next couple decades.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ers-and-poverty-is-not-as-simple-as-it-seems/
Poverty affects roughly 45% of children who don't live with their father.

Are we doing anything to make men better workers, better fathers, or more respected in society? Nope. Married men are depicted as fools, criminals, pedophiles, and rapists. Even little boys are told that they are pieces of shit just because they will grow up to be men.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/11/19/men-are-not-monsters.html

Last week three of my four boys were herded into school-sponsored assemblies and asked to stand, raise their hands and pledge to never, ever hurt a woman. While their female classmates remained seated, my boys faced intense pressure to say:

I promise
To never ever
Hit, hurt, or otherwise harm
A woman, girl, or child.
I understand
That I am bigger and stronger
Than many women, girls, and children.
Therefore it is my DUTY
To NEVER HARM them,
Protect, Respect, Honor, and Love them
No matter what.

.....

Here was my son’s takeaway from the assembly: “Men are just monsters that society needs to put in little cages.”

It’s a skewed, inaccurate message—and it’s one we need to erase from our public rhetoric, schools, laws and ideology.

It is not okay to slander half of the population in an attempt to protect the other half.

I won’t stand for it anymore, and neither will my son.

I'm already part of the red pill community, so there's no need to rejoin it. Society keeps using this weird feminist playbook that assumes men and women are exactly the same, and it simply doesn't work. There's a reason we have stereotypes like depicting cartoon cats as female and cartoon dogs as male. Those are based in reality. Women do have more cat-like behavior, and men have more dog-like behavior. Assuming that men and women are the same has led to a lot of hatred between men and women. By cat standards, men are pieces of shit. By dog standards, women are pieces of shit. The feminist tabula rasa doctrine is how we get serial killers like Elliot Rodger and angry neckbeards like SexyMGTOW.
TL;DR destroying SexyMGTOW's insane philosophy (17 minutes)

 

[1prophet]

Lol. It's happening right now. We will have our first real glimpse at it when all vehicles are automated. That will be the biggest example. After that. I think low skilled workers will be the safest for a while. High skill jobs being automated will save tons.

Which will probably be decades away at best,

automation works well in a closed environment where the all the variables are known and can accounted for in the process like a factory,

until you have artificial intelligence able to make the same split second decisions like a professional driver does when presented with the ever changing variables that have to be accounted for in driving a car, you won't have self driving cars "johnny cab" style anytime soon.