Push for $15 minimum wage

[Spungo]

Good luck getting more doctors or surgeons, you'll first have to get the AMA to agree. They've kept the numbers low to keep prices up.

Easy. We (America) chased Edward Snowden out of the country even though he's an American hero. I'm sure we could drum up a good reason to have the AMA's board members thrown in jail. The process will continue until "friendly" board members do what we want.

 

[Jaskalas]

Any sadder than the fact that some people think the uneducated labor market demands $15/hr? High school burger flippers need a "living wage"?

Is it wrong to design an economy where everyone has a minimum that meets basic needs?

 

[OCNewbie]

Is it wrong to design an economy where everyone has a minimum that meets basic needs?

Basic needs for a single parent with how many kids? Or basic needs for a family of two working parents with x number of kids? Or for a single person?

 

[Atreus21]

Is it wrong to design an economy where everyone has a minimum that meets basic needs?

Yes it is. For the same reason it's wrong to design an economy where everyone has a job, or everyone has a house, or everyone makes $10 mil a year.

You can't "design" an economy like that. Anymore than you can "design" reality.

Prices are reflections of value. They're not the value itself. Suddenly declaring that a burger-flipper's labor is worth as much as a nurse's doesn't make it so.

 

[MajinCry]

Prices are reflections of value. They're not the value itself. Suddenly declaring that a burger-flipper's labor is worth as much as a nurse's doesn't make it so.

Nobody's saying such. It's called "minimum wage", not "everybody's wage". If a nurse's labour is worth more, then pay the nurse more. And they should be paid more; they deal with all sorts of shit.

 

[michal1980]

No, I'm countering the "line" that burger flippers are all teens working part-time therefore don't need higher wages that's always trotted out everytime there's talk of minimum wage increases. For many people it's their main income.

So what?

Is burger flipping high value add, or low value add? That's how the hourly rate should be determined.

Not based on who is working that position.

 

[elitejp]

Exactly. If your not making enough then get another job.

Why should people who didn't take the time to learn a skill and made consistent bad decisions in life be given special privileges of being paid more then they are worth.

I lived in a low income subsidized neighborhood for two years while I was in school. My families income fit within the range that we could live there. Just about everyone on that block was sporting a new vehicle, with tricked out rims and a custom stereo system in the car. I'm driving my grandmothers 25 year old car going to school and waiting tables.

The people in the neighborhood were partying most of the time. The girlfriends were knocked up, with a baby in their arms and a toddler at their side.

Giving those people more money would not help them one bit. It would just enable then to continue doing what they did before that got them to where they are in the first place.

If you want to champion the rights of unskilled laborers then put your money where your mouth is.
The next time someone bags your groceries, makes change for you at the register or takes your order, slide them a dollar. It ain't much. Its not like you personally need to guarantee they have a high salary but just do it consistently.

But I highly doubt most people who champion the poor will do that. You champion the poor by using others peoples money to help them.
The next time you go out and eat give a 25% tip. You want to help these people then show me. Lets see how much your truly willing to help

 

[Zorkorist]

Minimum wage is a farce, as the relationship between employer and employee should be adversarial.

-John

 

[buckshot24]

Is it wrong to design an economy where everyone has a minimum that meets basic needs?

It isn't possible.

 

[MongGrel]

Minimum wage is a farce, as the relationship between employer and employee should be adversarial.

-John

Well run business's do not really operate that way, from my experience.

Or they did not in the past, compared to the joke the economy has become.

 

[Victorian Gray]

It isn't possible.

Why?

 

[Atreus21]

Nobody's saying such. It's called "minimum wage", not "everybody's wage". If a nurse's labour is worth more, then pay the nurse more. And they should be paid more; they deal with all sorts of shit.

Around here, LPNs start around $14 an hour.

 

[Zorkorist]

http://www.americanthinker.com/arti...derss_12point_socialist_plan_for_america.html

-John

 

[OverVolt]

Around here, LPNs start around $14 an hour.

Exactly. Why bother with so much more responsibility when you can flip burgers and joke around. When all the fast food workers are replaced by various career technicians looking for an easy job at the same pay they'll regret getting what they wished for. Why put yourself through school as an EMT for $15/hr and pay for tests and certs when you'd be a shoo in at mcdonalds. You wouldn't even need to wash the blood out of your clothes. Win-win.

 

[nickqt]

Exactly. Why bother with so much more responsibility when you can flip burgers and joke around. When all the fast food workers are replaced by various career technicians looking for an easy job at the same pay they'll regret getting what they wished for. Why put yourself through school as an EMT for $15/hr and pay for tests and certs when you'd be a shoo in at mcdonalds. You wouldn't even need to wash the blood out of your clothes. Win-win.

Supply and demand.

EMTs and LPNs (which are basically being mothballed at this point) go and work at McDonalds.

Guess they'll have to pay EMTs and LPNs more money to get them to work.

 

[Mai72]

I had a talk with an elementary teacher. We were talking about the current state of American students today. We both came to the conclusion that it's a sad time. These kids are given stickers, tokens, free time, candy, cake, and other rewards for doing mediocre work. Their attitude is I don't have to work hard. Many kids feel that everything should be handed to them.

This is one of the reasons why many Americans are unskilled and have a difficult time competing with talent from other countries. Especially in Asia. Throughout their academic life, Asian students are held at a much higher standard. Much more is expected of them. This is why many Asians attend Ivy league schools in America, and go on to productive careers as Engineers, Doctors, computer programmers, and business people.

Maybe this is another reason why we are currently seeing this issue. We have so many people who are unskilled.

 

[Mai72]

Exactly. Why bother with so much more responsibility when you can flip burgers and joke around. When all the fast food workers are replaced by various career technicians looking for an easy job at the same pay they'll regret getting what they wished for. Why put yourself through school as an EMT for $15/hr and pay for tests and certs when you'd be a shoo in at mcdonalds. You wouldn't even need to wash the blood out of your clothes. Win-win.

Depends on the individual and their goals. What about a person whose working at McDonalds and their goal is to operate 100 McDonalds. That's not so bad is it?

 

[Zorkorist]

What's sad is that a person that manages two or three restaurants, makes $15/hour, when the American Government is spending $18 Trillion into debt.

-John

 

[Spungo]

These kids are given stickers, tokens, free time, candy, cake, and other rewards for doing mediocre work. Their attitude is I don't have to work hard. Many kids feel that everything should be handed to them.

All by design, my dear.

It's a fairly well understood fact that animals are like drug addicts. We do things to get a dopamine rush. We get this rush from drugs, food, sex, video games, and achieving great things. This desire to feel rewarded is what drives a lot of our behavior. We cut our hair, we bathe, we try to be social, we try to impress others. We seek validation and praise, and we get that by being smart, being beautiful, being strong, making lots of money, and improving the lives of others. The purpose of giving needless praise is to create losers. If you get the praise without accomplishing anything, why bother trying to accomplish anything? It's like skipping work but still getting paid.

Ok, it's actually not by design. The praise for doing nothing was actually the result of studies showing that kids who achieved great things tend to be happier and have higher self esteem. That seems fairly obvious. If you're awesome, you'll probably feel awesome. Educators somehow screwed up the order of this and assumed that high self esteem causes success, which is completely insane. That's where this all comes from. The system tries to raise the self esteem of kids even though they haven't achieved anything because there is an irrational belief that kids will magically achieve things if they just had more confidence. My inner conspiracy theorist thinks there's no possible way the government could be this retarded; it must be some kind of conspiracy to create losers.

Asia's culture is the exact opposite. You are a piece of shit until proven otherwise. It does create highly successful people, but it also causes South Korea and Japan to have the highest suicide rates in the world.

 

[elitejp]

Why?

Because it isnt possible to force people to work hard or do a good job or to care about the job they do

 

[elitejp]

What's sad is that a person that manages two or three restaurants, makes $15/hour, when the American Government is spending $18 Trillion into debt.

-John

who do you know that actually runs 3 restaurants and makes 15 dollars an hr?

 

[Orignal Earl]

So what?

Is burger flipping high value add, or low value add? That's how the hourly rate should be determined.

Not based on who is working that position.

michal can flip 2 burgers an hour, and can't get along with his co workers or customers and is just awful to even look at
Charlie can flip 100 burgers an hour and customers come in just to watch him do it

 

[Mai72]

michal can flip 2 burgers an hour, and can't get along with his co workers or customers and is just awful to even look at
Charlie can flip 100 burgers an hour and customers come in just to watch him do it

Model Rx-79856 flips 10,000 burgers an hour. Michal was told to attend trade school so he can take care of the automation in the stores. He f*** around and doesn't get his degree. Charlie on the other hand hates computers and cries in his pillow that automation is destroying America. People come in droves to see the computer.

Because of automation...

The food is cheaper.
The burgers come out good every time.
Computers aren't rude.

 

[cubby1223]

Because it isnt possible to force people to work hard or do a good job or to care about the job they do

Amen to that! I get paid a lot of money because so many other people don't give a crap about their job and refuse to be helpful in any way shape or form.

It's pretty consistent - people born and raised in America hate working and refuse to be team players. People born and raised in foreign countries enjoy working and enjoy helping other people without complaining.

The equalizing factor is when Americans do work they are better workers. But it's damn difficult to get Americans to stop complaining and just do the f'ing work!

Americans should earn $15 flipping burgers just because they feel entitled? Fuck No!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Model Rx-79856 flips 10,000 burgers an hour. Michal was told to attend trade school so he can take care of the automation in the stores. He f*** around and doesn't get his degree. Charlie on the other hand hates computers and cries in his pillow that automation is destroying America. People come in droves to see the computer.

Because of automation...

The food is cheaper.
The burgers come out good every time.
Computers aren't rude.

I disagree fast food burgers are noticeably worse than 15-20 years ago. I wasn't a kid then either.