Pureview 920 vs IP5,S3 and One X.

[quest55720]

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/26/lumia-920-low-light-shootout/#comments

This is a photo shoot out. I am eating my words on the 920 I did not think such results were possible with such a small sensor.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/25/iphone-5-lumia-920-image-stabilization-face-off/

This is a video shoot out. Amazing job by the 920 compared to the rest. The IP5 does a great job for no hardware stabilization.

If nokia and MS can market this right I think the 920 can be a big seller. Just need to get galleries and videos like these into stores so people can see the huge difference. I have convinced a few people to try the 920 when it comes out for the camera and ultra sensitive screen to use with gloves in the winter.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

The SGS3 has a night mode right? I believe it's not being used here. The problem with testing auto mode on these cameras is you're evaluating software too. The iPHone 5 and Nokia clearly know to do a longer exposure.

In these scenarios I prefer standard camera testing like fixed exposure to evaluate sensor sharpness, color, and noise. You can clearly get some good results when you enable night mode but otherwise you're likely to get a sea of black if you just snap without touching anything.

 

[quest55720]

It is both fair and unfair. Fair as that it is real world usage by 95% plus of users. I have never seen anyone change modes on a cellphone to get a better pic. Heck it is rare for me to see anyone with even a point and shoot change modes. Part of the reason I picked my panasonic point and shoot was a great auto mode.

It is unfair because those other phones can look better. We still have not seen the 920's night mode either.

I can't wait until 4 weeks or so from now for reviews of the 920.

 

[jimhsu]

5 lux performance is insane (with that amount of noise). That's close to the city limit of twilight (3.2 lux). This thing would be excellent for restaurant photography. Seeing as I'm more involved with Yelp by the month, it would be awesome to not have to use flash in expensive, dimly lit restaurants (meaning all of them).

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

It is both fair and unfair. Fair as that it is real world usage by 95% plus of users. I have never seen anyone change modes on a cellphone to get a better pic. Heck it is rare for me to see anyone with even a point and shoot change modes. Part of the reason I picked my panasonic point and shoot was a great auto mode.

It is unfair because those other phones can look better. We still have not seen the 920's night mode either.

I can't wait until 4 weeks or so from now for reviews of the 920.

Well it's also that typically in auto it *should* figure out if it's in night mode or not. I think the iPhone and Lumia clearly understand it needs to expose for much longer at night while the other phones freak out. So you're also judging whether the software triggers night mode or not. Maybe the SGS3 is capable but under some circumstances it didn't trigger.

You're right. It's about real world use, and if the SGS3 and One X don't turn on night mode easily, then it's quite useless.

But at the same time you can't comment on the sensor quality without initiating night mode.

 

[jimhsu]

Well it's also that typically in auto it *should* figure out if it's in night mode or not. I think the iPhone and Lumia clearly understand it needs to expose for much longer at night while the other phones freak out. So you're also judging whether the software triggers night mode or not. Maybe the SGS3 is capable but under some circumstances it didn't trigger.

You're right. It's about real world use, and if the SGS3 and One X don't turn on night mode easily, then it's quite useless.

But at the same time you can't comment on the sensor quality without initiating night mode.

I suspect "night mode" is probably an ISO bump more than anything (i.e more noise). The EXIF data shows the Lumia 920 doing a 0.3s exposure at ISO 800 (which is only possible because of the OIS), while for the iPhone it's doing a 1/15s exposure at ISO 2500. The engadget photos don't do the noise justice; you need to download the zip to see just how much less noise there is in the former. I could see the Lumia's photo being usable at 50% and the iPhone at 25%. The others are not usable.

The general guidelines for handholding is 1/focal length - e.g. for a 50mm focal length, 1/50s is about the longest shutter speed you can use for reasonable cleanliness for an average photographer (longer if you have support such as a nearby wall). The focal length in these shots is about 35mm (again from EXIF). 0.3s is more than 3 stops longer. That amount of stabilization is comparable to highly regarded professional lenses such as the Canon 70-200 f/4 L IS which are admittedly much larger, but still. This speaks to the work they put into the image stabilization feature.

 

[mikegg]

The 920 clearly has better image quality than the S3 and One X. Impressive. Now where was the iPhone 5 comparison?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I suspect "night mode" is probably an ISO bump more than anything (i.e more noise). The EXIF data shows the Lumia 920 doing a 0.3s exposure at ISO 800 (which is only possible because of the OIS), while for the iPhone it's doing a 1/15s exposure at ISO 2500. The engadget photos don't do the noise justice; you need to download the zip to see just how much less noise there is in the former. I could see the Lumia's photo being usable at 50% and the iPhone at 25%. The others are not usable.

The general guidelines for handholding is 1/focal length - e.g. for a 50mm focal length, 1/50s is about the longest shutter speed you can use for reasonable cleanliness for an average photographer (longer if you have support such as a nearby wall). The focal length in these shots is about 35mm (again from EXIF). 0.3s is more than 3 stops longer. That amount of stabilization is comparable to highly regarded professional lenses such as the Canon 70-200 f/4 L IS which are admittedly much larger, but still. This speaks to the work they put into the image stabilization feature.

Right. I understand what you're saying. But when you go pixel peep like DSLR users do like on DPreview, they're keeping ISO constant.

I think night mode is an ISO bump but I believe it also tells the phone that it needs to expose for longer, or get an overall brighter image. I somehow think that without night mode, no phone will let you expose for like 3 seconds. There's a shutter cutoff. It's not aiming for a balanced histogram. The average user just doesn't get that they have to hold a camera really still in low light so I think most manufacturers just let the phone take a dark picture instead of having long exposures which newbs will cry over the blurriness.

 

[shortylickens]

Was never gonna buy an 808 anyway. I think its only useful as a benchmark, like the Droid for display benchmarks.

 

[vshah]

The 920 clearly has better image quality than the S3 and One X. Impressive. Now where was the iPhone 5 comparison?

it's right there, next to all the others. you must have chosen not to see it.

 

[at80eighty]

The 920 clearly has better image quality than the S3 and One X. Impressive. Now where was the iPhone 5 comparison?

http://i.imgur.com/XxNtg.jpg

 

[dagamer34]

http://i.imgur.com/XxNtg.jpg

What's most striking is the apparent color shift both phones seem to have if night mode in the Lumia 920 is more accurate to real life. Amazing.

 

[at80eighty]

agreed dagamer34. the tones are really amazing. im digging the vast reduction in noise too.

with every news item on this thing, i get more excited for it; Nokia seems to have picked a winning strategy, now here's hoping MS doesnt screw them up by pushing out a less than fully baked OS

 

[pm]

A good camera is a huge selling point on a phone for me (and my wife even more). But I'm not sure that it's going to be huge enough to convince me to move over to Windows Mobile 8. But I will admit that these photos are very impressive and Nokia is pretty much doing the only thing that would really move me to switch. That and much longer battery life.

 

[vi edit]

A good camera is a huge selling point on a phone for me (and my wife even more). But I'm not sure that it's going to be huge enough to convince me to move over to Windows Mobile 8. But I will admit that these photos are very impressive and Nokia is pretty much doing the only thing that would really move me to switch. That and much longer battery life.

I'm in a similar situation but scared by Win8. There is very, very little info out there on what it can do, real world demonstrations, apps, ect. There's just nothing other than pimping out the camera on the Nokia on the web to even let people know that Win8 is coming.

I would think that MS would be putting some effort into marketing this prior to launch. There really needs to be something compelling to make you drop a couple hundred bucks and a 2 year contract (or $500+) out of pocket on launch day besides "it takes great pictures!".

 

[shortylickens]

I'm in a similar situation but scared by Win8. There is very, very little info out there on what it can do, real world demonstrations, apps, ect. There's just nothing other than pimping out the camera on the Nokia on the web to even let people know that Win8 is coming.

I would think that MS would be putting some effort into marketing this prior to launch. There really needs to be something compelling to make you drop a couple hundred bucks and a 2 year contract (or $500+) out of pocket on launch day besides "it takes great pictures!".

Its WP7 with some improvements. You could find out what it does very quickly. Just go buy one used from Amazon.

 

[abaez]

I would most definitely buy a 920 if it could be used ton Tmo's 3G :/

 

[KeithTalent]

The 920 is looking more and more appealing with every article I read. Very impressive pics here.

KT

 

[dagamer34]

I would most definitely buy a 920 if it could be used ton Tmo's 3G :/

T-Mobile is shifting it's 3G frequencies such that they align with AT&T and rollout LTE in their AWS spectrum. It's only a matter of time until it comes to your area if you live in a big city.

 

[pandemonium]

Incredible. I'm waiting for a different iteration of this technology.

Though, I really wish reviewers would take it to the next level and see what the best possible result from each piece of hardware could be if settings are adjusted. It'd be nice to know where the limits lay; software or hardware. You know more people than a select few would adjust settings to get a better picture if what they take turns out like crap... I mean, a cardinal rule to being a photography is take lots and lots of pictures [so you can select the best in each setting].

This testing methodology has me confused:

To ensure consistency, we set all of the smartphones to auto shooting mode, with our trusted senior mobile editor Myriam Joire behind the wheel. She matched up framing and held each device perfectly still -- she describes the process described in the video below.

If they're going for something perfectly still, they should've used a mount. If they were going for real-world testing, Myriam shouldn't have tried to hold it perfectly still and gone for "mostly still, like an average user would during an average outting". I admit I probably have steadier hands than most, but this methodology seems to favor a serious photography for steadiness, then completely remove that methodology for the average user who wouldn't adjust settings at all. It's contradictory.

 

[dagamer34]

Incredible. I'm waiting for a different iteration of this technology.

Though, I really wish reviewers would take it to the next level and see what the best possible result from each piece of hardware could be if settings are adjusted. It'd be nice to know where the limits lay; software or hardware. You know more people than a select few would adjust settings to get a better picture if what they take turns out like crap... I mean, a cardinal rule to being a photography is take lots and lots of pictures [so you can select the best in each setting].

This testing methodology has me confused:


If they're going for something perfectly still, they should've used a mount. If they were going for real-world testing, Myriam shouldn't have tried to hold it perfectly still and gone for "mostly still, like an average user would during an average outting". I admit I probably have steadier hands than most, but this methodology seems to favor a serious photography for steadiness, then completely remove that methodology for the average user who wouldn't adjust settings at all. It's contradictory.

A mount doesn't demonstrate anything. No one ever carries around a mount for their phone so it would prove nothing that matters in the real world. Most people do seem to try and be perfectly still when taking a picture with their camera.

 

[Insomniator]

Wow that lumia night mode shot is amazing.

 

[WelshBloke]

The SGS3 has a night mode right? I believe it's not being used here. The problem with testing auto mode on these cameras is you're evaluating software too. The iPHone 5 and Nokia clearly know to do a longer exposure.

In these scenarios I prefer standard camera testing like fixed exposure to evaluate sensor sharpness, color, and noise. You can clearly get some good results when you enable night mode but otherwise you're likely to get a sea of black if you just snap without touching anything.

This verge article has some S3 night mode pics (as well as One x, 4s and Lumia 920).

http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/7/3299784/nokia-lumia-920-pureview-camera-hi-res-photos

Results are very different there (920 probably still shades it though)

 

[Munky]

I'm impressed.. but where is my 1700 HSPA band? That's not gonna work for me.

 

[notposting]

Well, as a WP7 user, my only concern is performance of WP8, because while it may look somewhat similar, everything underneath is completely changed. And to be honest, some of MS succeeding "Metro" design work is just ass. I'm a Windows Media Center user...love it. WP7...love it. But they've basically disbanded the MC team and are getting away from design and typography (count me in the "keep the gutter" camp). The new "Outlook.com" redesign for Hotmail is just hideous. Both in usability and looks.

So we will see...but if they have maintained the super fluid performance, are adding features and not losing any, and the 920 comes out on VZW...SOLD.