PSU, UPS, and buzzing, oh my! (Active PFC question)

[Ken g6]

First of all, I have a Corsair vx450. It's several years old, but until recently it's been working fine, powering a q9400 and a GTX 460 24/7, through [thread=2205884]a month-long Folding@Home race[/url] among other things. A couple of days ago, it started making a buzz/whine, which has been getting louder when I run both CPU and GPU on F@H. If I only run one, it diminishes/disappears, so that's what I've been doing the past couple of days.

First, is the buzz/whine a safety concern, or just annoying? I have no dust filters on my computer, so that might be related; or not.

Second, I'm guessing it's time to get a replacement PSU anyway. Or feel free to recommend a better/cheaper PSU for this computer. Just realize that I can't do mail-in rebates. (PO box. )

But I also looked at some 500W PSUs, and they say something about not working with square-wave UPSes. Well, I've got a square-wave UPS, a Back-UPS es 750. It's been on there 6 months or so, and was preceded by a 450 (which couldn't handle the GPU). Could this have caused the buzz/whine problem? Does it also mean I can't get another PSU without getting another UPS? Recommendations on those, too, then? This one, perhaps?

 

[Magic Carpet]

Had exactly this PSU model and exactly the same whine. But.. I only had that whine with a particular video card.

Had a buddy checked my PSU and he said it was fine though. Basically, if you can live with it, you should be OK. Ended up changing both though. I am a silence freak

 

[know of fence]

A layman explanation that I've received once is that induction coils produce that noise, which is why they are wrapped in rubbery, elastic material. Over time elasticity of the wrapping deteriorates and these things start to buzz. BTW sometimes there are thermal sensors/safety chips inside the wrapping, which cause some of the heat related PSU failures.

A general ambitious DIY solution for old electronics' power supplies would be to open up the offender and tightly rewrap the coils with electric tape.

Found a 4 more possible technical explanations.
http://forums.techarena.in/hardware-peripherals/1120571.htm

- Passive PFC inductors in some power supplies. This buzzing sound is generated by low frequency viberation of magnetized cores of the Passive PFC inductor and has a low frequency.
- The switching stage circuit of the PSU. Because the switching frequency is usually above 50KHz in design, this noise is usually beyond hearing limits of human kind (20Hz~20kHz). However if a lower frequency viberation is generated in the feedback loop, you may hear it from the viberation of coils, tenuous but sharp sound.
- DC-DC VRMs are used on both Mobos and Video cards. Usually the viberation of inductors (or capacitors) can't be heard because of the ultra-high frequency(>100kHz I think), but if there's lower frequency resonance (<20kHz) for some reason, the lower frequency components can be heard.
- If there's no load on one of the PSU's output (12V, 5V, 3.3V, 5Vsb), the PSU is working abnormally and can emmit buzzing sound. Enhance uses a 20Ohm resistor as the load on 5Vsb output and calls it "standby noise filter". Clever design.

]

 

[Magic Carpet]

The problem effects the good brands as well, such as Seasonic and Be Quiet!

If you're unlucky

 

[Ken g6]

But.. I only had that whine with a particular video card.

Turns out my video card has a failing fan, which was buzzing this morning, so it needs an RMA. I'm less sure about the PSU; it's not making noise under full CPU load without the GPU. We'll see.

If there's no load on one of the PSU's output (12V, 5V, 3.3V, 5Vsb), the PSU is working abnormally and can emmit buzzing sound. Enhance uses a 20Ohm resistor as the load on 5Vsb output and calls it "standby noise filter". Clever design.

If it comes back I'll try plugging in a USB device and see if that gets rid of it. Thanks!

Any advice about square-wave UPSes and PSUs with Active PFC? Are they OK together under 500W, or not?

 

[Magic Carpet]

Turns out my video card has a failing fan, which was buzzing this morning, so it needs an RMA. I'm less sure about the PSU; it's not making noise under full CPU load without the GPU. We'll see.

It is the PSU. Period. I've had this issue so many times.

What else you could try?

Try using a molex connector/converter instead of the PCI Express cable.

b) Modding/gluing could help but you need to have knowledge and equipment to do it properly. know of fence posted up a mini-guide here, you could use that.

c) Get another PSU.

Any advice about square-wave UPSes and PSUs with Active PFC? Are they OK together under 500W, or not?

Haven't used UPS in a while. Can't help you with that

 

[Meghan54]

If the psu is still under warranty and it's buzzing/coil whining, Corsair will RMA it.

 

[Ken g6]

If the psu is still under warranty and it's buzzing/coil whining, Corsair will RMA it.

I wondered if someone would mention this. I actually RMAed once before, thinking the PSU was causing reboots, because I'd replaced everything but the PSU and the CD drive. It turned out to be the CD drive.

Anyway, since I RMAed before, can I even do so again?

And I still need to know about the UPS compatibility issue.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I wondered if someone would mention this. I actually RMAed once before, thinking the PSU was causing reboots, because I'd replaced everything but the PSU and the CD drive. It turned out to be the CD drive.

Anyway, since I RMAed before, can I even do so again?

And I still need to know about the UPS compatibility issue.

I RMA'ed twice in a row one PSU, turned out the whole batch was affected.

 

[Ken g6]

Well, I might RMA the PSU, I might not as it's working well without the GPU whose failing fan means the GPU itself needs an RMA.

But at this point I'd like to get a new, more efficient PSU anyway. A JohnnyGuru link in another thread is making me think about a Seasonic because, as I can't get rebates to a PO box, it's only a few bucks more.

The problem is I still don't know about that UPS compatibility issue! Bump! Anyone?!

 

[planckepoch]

First of all, I have a Corsair vx450. It's several years old, but until recently it's been working fine, powering a q9400 and a GTX 460 24/7, through [thread=2205884]a month-long Folding@Home race[/url] among other things. A couple of days ago, it started making a buzz/whine, which has been getting louder when I run both CPU and GPU on F@H. If I only run one, it diminishes/disappears, so that's what I've been doing the past couple of days.

First, is the buzz/whine a safety concern, or just annoying? I have no dust filters on my computer, so that might be related; or not.

Second, I'm guessing it's time to get a replacement PSU anyway. Or feel free to recommend a better/cheaper PSU for this computer. Just realize that I can't do mail-in rebates. (PO box. )

But I also looked at some 500W PSUs, and they say something about not working with square-wave UPSes. Well, I've got a square-wave UPS, a Back-UPS es 750. It's been on there 6 months or so, and was preceded by a 450 (which couldn't handle the GPU). Could this have caused the buzz/whine problem? Does it also mean I can't get another PSU without getting another UPS? Recommendations on those, too, then? This one, perhaps?

I know this is an old post but I have same issues!

This is not coil whine and it is confirmed not coming from the graphics card. I'm curious, anyone else have a GTX980 that encountered a very faint "buzzing" noise that is sounding like an electronic buzzing noise (not a fan issue or something getting stuck) coming from the actual PSU itself!?

Bought a GTX980 last year around October or November, along with a COMPLETELY new build, new parts everything all at the same time. All quality parts. And a Gigabyte Z97 FORCE motherboard. No issues whatsoever except for the GTX980 that will sometimes black out my entire monitor by not sending a signal to the displayport when getting to the Windows 7 login screen. (this is well documented GTX980 issue), other than that it worked perfectly I get good benchmarks and everything. Not overclocking and all temps are well below normal. Use cpu-z, coretemp, gputemp, 3dmark, etc

Then early this year, about 3 or four months after my initial build, I notice this very low level "buzzing" sound coming out of the PSU. I am sure it is the PSU. It took me a long time to isolate the exact source of the low level buzzing and it was driving me insane. Sometimes the buzzing would be louder, other times more quiet,. other times it would completely go away on its own. It was intermittent, and with no solid pattern other than the fact that I noticed more often than not, it would usually typically be completely silent when I first boot up the computer, then after the computer was used for an hour or so, it will gradually start the buzzing noise getting louder until it reached a peak. This happens even when I just idle the machine or surf the web, nothing with me loading the CPU too hard or playing games etc. After a few more hours, sometimes the sound goes away, then only to come back later. This is not 'coil whine' and it is not the fan hitting anything or the bearings wearing out. This is distinctively an electronic sort of buzz.

As this progressed I noticed that it would happen sooner. Eventually it got to the point that it would only be silent for the first five minutes, then after that shortly after bootup it will start manifesting that noise again. .

I thought about everything from the PSU fan needing to get more lube, to some capacitor going bad, etc... Eventually I just got feed up and went out and purchased another brand new PSU (AX860) to replace the Corsair 850 and immediately after swapping the PSU the noise was gone for good and never came bad. So I attributed it to the PSU and never gave it another thought.

Now, less than a few months after that, I recently started to notice the same buzzing noise coming back, this time on my new PSU! This can't be a coincidence. I don't operate in a dusty environment it is very cool, clean, this can't be something to do with a broken fan or needing more lube. I don't have any performance issues with the computer, specs and benchmarks are as they always were. I am not infected with a virus, to be sure I even low level reformatted my computer, got a new SSD to make sure there wasn't a firmware infection, and switched to a new BIOS (my motherboard has a switch that flips to a backup/dual bios) to make sure my motherboard wasn't somehow compromised.

I can't imagine why. I'm using a quality Monster surge protector and also running an APC Line-R rated at 1200+; I am feeding it the best quality power possible.

My speculation is that like the Displayport /dark monitor /lost of signal at login screen issue that is the result of GTX980; I think my graphics card is actually the culprit that causes for whatever reason(s) my PSUs (two of them now) to develop a buzzing over time.

I'm not sure what affects this has long term on physical use and performance, if any, but the sound is annoying and buzzing is bothering me. I built an otherwise very quiet system and this is irritating.

Anyone else encounter this?

 

[planckepoch]

I know this is an old post but I have same issues!

This is not coil whine and it is confirmed not coming from the graphics card. I'm curious, anyone else have a GTX980 that encountered a very faint "buzzing" noise that is sounding like an electronic buzzing noise (not a fan issue or something getting stuck) coming from the actual PSU itself!?

Bought a GTX980 last year around October or November, along with a COMPLETELY new build, new parts everything all at the same time. All quality parts. And a Gigabyte Z97 FORCE motherboard. No issues whatsoever except for the GTX980 that will sometimes black out my entire monitor by not sending a signal to the displayport when getting to the Windows 7 login screen. (this is well documented GTX980 issue), other than that it worked perfectly I get good benchmarks and everything. Not overclocking and all temps are well below normal. Use cpu-z, coretemp, gputemp, 3dmark, etc

Then early this year, about 3 or four months after my initial build, I notice this very low level "buzzing" sound coming out of the PSU. I am sure it is the PSU. It took me a long time to isolate the exact source of the low level buzzing and it was driving me insane. Sometimes the buzzing would be louder, other times more quiet,. other times it would completely go away on its own. It was intermittent, and with no solid pattern other than the fact that I noticed more often than not, it would usually typically be completely silent when I first boot up the computer, then after the computer was used for an hour or so, it will gradually start the buzzing noise getting louder until it reached a peak. This happens even when I just idle the machine or surf the web, nothing with me loading the CPU too hard or playing games etc. After a few more hours, sometimes the sound goes away, then only to come back later. This is not 'coil whine' and it is not the fan hitting anything or the bearings wearing out. This is distinctively an electronic sort of buzz.

As this progressed I noticed that it would happen sooner. Eventually it got to the point that it would only be silent for the first five minutes, then after that shortly after bootup it will start manifesting that noise again. .

I thought about everything from the PSU fan needing to get more lube, to some capacitor going bad, etc... Eventually I just got feed up and went out and purchased another brand new PSU (AX860) to replace the Corsair 850 and immediately after swapping the PSU the noise was gone for good and never came bad. So I attributed it to the PSU and never gave it another thought.

Now, less than a few months after that, I recently started to notice the same buzzing noise coming back, this time on my new PSU! This can't be a coincidence. I don't operate in a dusty environment it is very cool, clean, this can't be something to do with a broken fan or needing more lube. I don't have any performance issues with the computer, specs and benchmarks are as they always were. I am not infected with a virus, to be sure I even low level reformatted my computer, got a new SSD to make sure there wasn't a firmware infection, and switched to a new BIOS (my motherboard has a switch that flips to a backup/dual bios) to make sure my motherboard wasn't somehow compromised.

I can't imagine why. I'm using a quality Monster surge protector and also running an APC Line-R rated at 1200+; I am feeding it the best quality power possible.

My speculation is that like the Displayport /dark monitor /lost of signal at login screen issue that is the result of GTX980; I think my graphics card is actually the culprit that causes for whatever reason(s) my PSUs (two of them now) to develop a buzzing over time.

I'm not sure what affects this has long term on physical use and performance, if any, but the sound is annoying and buzzing is bothering me. I built an otherwise very quiet system and this is irritating.

Anyone else encounter this?

This is what it sounds like up close as if your ear was right up next to the PSU:

https://soundcloud.com/user804241519/corsair-ax860-psu-buzz-ing-noise


How worried should I be?

 

[ButtMagician]

Most likely harmless, just annoying. Seems like a typical Seasonic issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWtrnsM-DPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH_N_B6bmbM

I just don't know why would it start happening a few months down the road rather than straight away.

 

[PhIlLy ChEeSe]

Try under clocking the GPU, or if its over clocked set it to default then see if its still whining. Use afterburner if need be.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I encountered the incompatibility of certain UPS devices and Active-PFC PSUs of known high quality.

The UPS was a CyberPower ~ 1,300VA unit -- I don't remember the model (or it's just inconvenient now to check). I think the model-code included the sequence "AVR." The problem was well-documented in certain forums, and eventually CyberPower's tech-reps entered a Newegg customer-review page for that particular model and posted their own "warning" about the short-coming.

So you have a choice: either continue to use a UPS that is not "compatible" with some very good Active-PFC PSUs; or ditch the UPS -- perhaps redeploy it for HT equipment -- and buy one that doesn't have such problems. Then, just pick a top-notch PSU.

The APC brand was a great refuge for me after my CyberPower experience. There should be indications in the product spec that it has "Active-PFC" compatibility.

The problem with the CyberPower was subtle. It would miss a single cycle of power during transitions between AC-passthrough and battery. This would lead to some minor corruption of RAM, which might not show itself for the good part of a day later. You might then experience a "freeze," a "reset," or just a plain-ol' BSOD. I can only say "Good riddance!" to that.

 

[bigboxes]

I encountered the incompatibility of certain UPS devices and Active-PFC PSUs of known high quality.

The UPS was a CyberPower ~ 1,300VA unit -- I don't remember the model (or it's just inconvenient now to check). I think the model-code included the sequence "AVR." The problem was well-documented in certain forums, and eventually CyberPower's tech-reps entered a Newegg customer-review page for that particular model and posted their own "warning" about the short-coming.

So you have a choice: either continue to use a UPS that is not "compatible" with some very good Active-PFC PSUs; or ditch the UPS -- perhaps redeploy it for HT equipment -- and buy one that doesn't have such problems. Then, just pick a top-notch PSU.

The APC brand was a great refuge for me after my CyberPower experience. There should be indications in the product spec that it has "Active-PFC" compatibility.

The problem with the CyberPower was subtle. It would miss a single cycle of power during transitions between AC-passthrough and battery. This would lead to some minor corruption of RAM, which might not show itself for the good part of a day later. You might then experience a "freeze," a "reset," or just a plain-ol' BSOD. I can only say "Good riddance!" to that.

I currently own two CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS devices and I have none of the issues you talk about. Maybe it's anecdotal. I've had more problems with my current APC true sine wave UPS than my CyberPower ones.

I've owned all sorts of UPS devices in my life. I rate them from features, reliability and ease of maintenance (replacing that battery). I leave my main rig and file server on 24/7. So, I need my UPS to be able to handle it. I only use Seasonic active PFC PSUs in my 24/7 rigs.

Wife has an Antec EarthWatts 380 paired up with the APC. Wish I could turn off the lights on the buttons on the APC. Puts out quite a bit of light in a dark bedroom. You can disable the display, but not the button lights. Replaced the battery in the APC unit last month.

I had an APC UPS in the past that had this small fan that would ramp up whenever the unit got warm. It was the most annoying thing. When the battery needed replacement I ditched it for the CyberPower devices I have today. I just gave that APC unit to a technically challenged friend. Told him he needed to buy a new battery and voila he'd have a UPS of his very own, a 1250VA model to be specific. I thought it was going to be better because it was an APC. My experiences are that they are not better than the current CyberPower models.

 

[bononos]

I currently own two CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS devices and I have none of the issues you talk about. Maybe it's anecdotal. I've had more problems with my current APC true sine wave UPS than my CyberPower ones.
......

Your model is a pure sine wave ups so you shouldn't have any problems with pfc psus.
But there are issues with cheaper models which only have simulated sine wave.