PSU advice

[IslandStylin]

Aloha and Happy Holidays everyone!

I am trying to figure out what I should get for a PSU and am completely lost. I have read a few of the threads that were posted, but I would really appreciate any help and suggestions that you guys might have; seeing as you are the experts around here.

The components I have thus far:

i5 2500k
Z68 ud3h-b3 (i have yet to open it...if anyone thinks this board sucks and I should get the asus p8z68 or extreme 3 gen 3 instead please let me know. I have heard this board might have some problems for me because of the phases to the PCU)
Cooler Master Elite 430 case
Hyper EVO cooler (about to order this unless someone has a better suggestion.)
8 gb corsair vengeance 1600 ddr3 RAM
Lite on Multi DVD Burner
Generic Card Reader
Quadro 1400 (I will be upgrading to a gtx 560 ti most likely when I get more funds. With possibility to SLI one day.)


I would love to be able to have a stable OC at 4.5ghz, but I am not sure how feasible it is with this board.....I suppose more likely I will be hitting around 4.3ghz.

I don't want to get a PSU that will 'break the bank', but obviously I don't want a POS either. Any and all suggestions welcome.

Not sure what other details I can provide. Any questions I will try to answer to the best of my ability.

Here are a couple that caught my eye...
1. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817152036
2. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341017
3. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153136

Thanks everyone!

 

[lehtv]

If you want the PSU to be crossfire/SLI capable, aim for 750W-850W. However, the chances that you'll ever go SLI are pretty slim, you would most likely be better off with a 550-650W unit.

Corsair CX600 V2 $40 AR today
XFX 650W $55 after rebate <-- has 4 PCIe connectors so in theory it will handle 560 Ti SLI or 6950 Crossfire provided you don't OC them too much
XFX 750W $60 AR today, $75 AR normally
Corsair TX650 V2 $70 AR
Antec EA750 $70 AR
XFX 750W XXX modular $90 AR
XFX 850W $90 AR
XFX 850W XXX modular $110 AR

Antec EA750 and Corsair CX600 V2 have 3 year warranty, the rest have 5.

Side note: If you game at 1920x1080 I'd recommend 6950 2GB over 560 Ti. Faster and more VRAM.

 

[IslandStylin]

Thanks for your suggestions!

If I do a lot of video editing would I want to end up doing SLI? I probably wouldn't go to SLI for a while anyhow...Maybe I should just keep my PSU with less wattage...hmm.

I am pretty positive I want to go Modual (my case isn't too large as it is). What are the plusses if any to go non-modual? (minus price) What are the negatives for going modual?

 

[lehtv]

Modular, not modual

Modular PSUs aren't in any way superior other than modularity itself. They cost more partly because modular cabling is more expensive to manufacture, but mostly because of marketing. There are also no negatives to modularity that I can think of.

If you buy a 650W or lesser unit you will be just fine with fixed cables.

If I do a lot of video editing would I want to end up doing SLI?

I suppose professional video editing applications can take advantage of multiple GPUs to speed up effect processing and such, but I'm no expert on that. The vast majority of people will be fine with a single GPU.

 

[IslandStylin]

If I am future proofing would it be wiser and spend $20 more for a higher power PSU?

Are there any companies you would not buy from?

 

[know of fence]

How many hours a day do you intend to use your PC on average? - Rough estimate.
Also will it idle (internet) or play games / crunch data most of this time.
--->That number determines how much money you should spend on PSU efficiency.

Computers become more power efficient over time, and considering all that this implies (like a broader load range), getting a higher power PSU is the opposite of future proofing.

IMHO best way to save money and power is to forget that SLI or Crossifire exist, and get an expensive exactly fitting Wattage PSU and possibly even a cheaper (no SLI) mainboard.

Running 560ti in SLI in a couple of months when new 28nm Cards are released, sounds like a bad idea, honestly. Also AT articles have never recommended SLI/Xfire to sane people.

 

[lehtv]

If I am future proofing would it be wiser and spend $20 more for a higher power PSU?

Depends solely on how sure you are that you will need the extra power - and how soon. Most people will never go SLI so most people would be fine with the cheapest option, CX600.

Are there any companies you would not buy from?

Yes, a lot of companies I would not buy from. The ones I would buy from:

Antec
Corsair
Enermax
Seasonic
PC Power & Cooling
XFX
NZXT

Many OCZ, Silverstone, Kingwin, Thermaltake and Cooler Master units are also decent. But not all.

 

[currahee440]

The first time I bought an OCZ, my computer rebooted. Either it was faulty or it couldn't handle the load it was getting. It was a 600W unit too, and I swapped out my Antec Earthwatts 430W. This was just to test it before I built a Phenom II X6 system.

I have this in my system: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...eo%20ECO%20520

though it's pricier than what was suggested above. My PC runs 5 hard drives, a sound card, a wireless card, a GTX 470, a Core i5 2400, and an ASUS P8P67LE mobo just fine.

I would say get anything at or above 40A for 12V with the companies suggested above this post. Also, if you spot a PSU with 30A for 12V1 and 30A for 12V2 you have to be careful because that doesn't mean the PSU can handle 60A. Just take the total combined wattage for 12V and divide it by the voltage to get the total true amperage...

 

[IslandStylin]

How many hours a day do you intend to use your PC on average? - Rough estimate.
Also will it idle (internet) or play games / crunch data most of this time.
--->That number determines how much money you should spend on PSU efficiency.

I roughly use it for around 8-12 hours a day. Most of it is word processing, internet, and video editing. I suppose a good mix of data crunching and normal day use. Not sure if that helps at all or not...

Seems like I am just going to put SLI behind me....If that is the case, should I have gotten a different motherboard than the one I chose?

 

[IslandStylin]

I will be powering:

Card reader
DVD multi burner
2 internal hard drives
most likely one or two external hard drives
monitor
8gb ddr3 ram (will upgrade to 16gb eventually if needed)
mouse
keyboard
graphics card (either the 560 ti or the 6950 mentioned above
4 fans
1 cpu hyper 212 evo

Think that covers it all

 

[ElFenix]

I will be powering:

Card reader
DVD multi burner
2 internal hard drives
most likely one or two external hard drives
monitor
8gb ddr3 ram (will upgrade to 16gb eventually if needed)
mouse
keyboard
graphics card (either the 560 ti or the 6950 mentioned above
4 fans
1 cpu hyper 212 evo

Think that covers it all

with no overclocking a really good 400 watt would power that even during a burn test (though you'd probably be right near 100&#37; load with the 560ti). during a regular game you'd be about 80% load.

 

[Brutus04]

Concur w/everyones comments, don't skimp on a PSU especially if you want to "future proof". Get the most efficient one you can afford. Look into the efficiency certifications (Bronze, Silver, Gold etc) http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/742

 

[IslandStylin]

I definitely don't want to skimp on the PSU..but I don't want to break the bank either. I am sure I can find a great psu for around $70 to power my system. I plan on OC'ing to around 4-4.5ghz max! Most likely closer to 4ghz.

 

[know of fence]

Let's say your PC averages 80 W internally with a 560 Ti 12hours a day, recommended power supples range from 80 plus at say 0.80 efficiency to 80 plus platinum 0.89 efficiency.

Efficiency_Consumption_Rating_____Savings($/year)
80/0.80 = 100 W "80 plus" --> savings on power 0
80/0.82 = 97.6 W "bronze" --->2.4 $
80/0.85 = 94.1 W "silver" ----> 5.9 $
80/0.87 = 92.0 W "gold" -----> 8 $
80/0.90 = 88.9 W "platinum"--> 11 $

PC see about 4-6 years of use, costs are calculated using 12h/day and a kWh price of 22.8 cents. Efficiency at 20% load according to American 115 VAC power outlets.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2214820

Now you just take any PSU - subtract the savings (in however long the PC will be in use)... and compare the price that remains.

 

[IslandStylin]

Know of fence: I have PM'd you.

 

[know of fence]

Sorry, I skipped some vital info. The PSU wattage should typically be twice the maximum consumption of your PC. So a PC with a 700W power supply actually ought to consume 350W during the heaviest of 3D benchmarks. Needless to say that the average consumption is much lower. I used somewhat conservative 80W to calculate projected savings.

If power is measured at the motherboard: CPU/ram/board/drives use about 45W in idle while gaming graphics uses about 30 W. That is consumption measured at the big 24 pin connector on the mainboard before the power supply.
(Source CPU consumption for i5: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-fx-8120-6100-4100_8.html)

Currently typical supplies have an efficiency of 80% and more, and thus are certified "80 plus". That's where the .80 comes from. (PSU certifications: http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/80PlusPowerSupplies.aspx

 

[lehtv]

The PSU wattage should typically be twice the maximum consumption of your PC.

Based on what?

 

[know of fence]

Based on what?

It's a rule of thumb resulting from different things:
- available 12V amperage being the biggest power draw and limiting fraction
- the power supply reaching maximum efficiency at 50% load, leaving some headroom
- fan noise increasing as power supply moves beyond the peak

But it may make sense to go for smaller wattage to get better idle efficiency, as long as all the GPU connectors and amperages suffice.

smaller PSUs have higher efficiency at smaller load current

 

[lehtv]

It's a rule of thumb resulting from different things:
- available 12V amperage being the biggest power draw and limiting fraction
- the power supply reaching maximum efficiency at 50&#37; load, leaving some headroom
- fan noise increasing as power supply moves beyond the peak

But it may make sense to go for smaller wattage to get better idle efficiency, as long as all the GPU connectors and amperages suffice.

smaller PSUs have higher efficiency at smaller load current

Going by your rule of thumb - as efficiency is indeed highest at 50% PSU load, that should be the most common wattage of the system at load, rather than the maximum power consumption.

It should be noted that there is usually very little difference in efficiency between 50% and, say, 80% load. Just as your graph shows: 1%. The more powerful PSU will not pay itself back in any practical amount of time, and so the idea of higher load efficiency to save energy is moot; we don't even need to factor in the benefit of higher idle efficiency with the less powerful PSU.

As for load noise of the PSU, systems that actually use several hundreds of watts at load are ones with one or more powerful graphics cards, and the noise from the fans of those graphics cards (as well as system fans and the CPU fan) will almost always easily drown noise made by the PSU fan. So that point is moot as well, except for the small minority who want to build a powerful yet very quiet system using components designed for that purpose throughout the build.

Finally, if you're investing in quietness, it might be a better idea to buy a sufficiently powerful PSU with high efficiency rating rather than pay the same price for a more powerful PSU with lesser efficiency rating.

 

[know of fence]

How about your tell me the % load at TDP on the PC in your sig,
then tell me how it relates to your Seasonic's 650W. It's about 325W, isn't it?

You obviously would like to disagree (carefully qualifying your arguments), when we are saying the same thing.

Let me qualify an argument, too :
If the pc isn't used for heavy duty like F@H and games exclusively or excessively, then (on current hardware making use of power gating) most common wattage would be <100 W .

See what I did there...

 

[lehtv]

How about your tell me the &#37; load at TDP on the PC in your sig,
then tell me how it relates to your Seasonic's 650W. It's about 325W, isn't it?

So what? What I have in my sig has absolutely nothing to do with the arguments I've presented.

You obviously would like to disagree (carefully qualifying your arguments), when we are saying the same thing.

I don't "like" to disagree, I disagree when I think it's justified to disagree.

I don't understand why you think we're saying the same thing. You said 50% PSU load at maximum system power consumption is a good rule of thumb, I said no it's not.

Let me qualify an argument, too :
If the pc isn't used for heavy duty like F@H and games exclusively or excessively, then (on current hardware making use of power gating) most common wattage would be <100 W .

See what I did there...

Nope, what did you do?

 

[IslandStylin]

Alrighty than...that made for an interesting read. Still high and dry and without a PSU decision. lol. So far it seems that I can get away with a 600-700W PSU with no problem. Especially if I am not going to SLI (and I am beginning to believe I never will).

There is a deal on new egg right now for an OCZ unit and I was wonderinf what you all thought about it.

1. OCZ ModXStream Pro 600W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341017
TOTAL: $49.99 after rebate + ($15 promotional card for newegg)

2. OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341018
TOTAL: $59.99 after rebate + ($15 promotional card for newegg)

So technically I am paying $45 for the 700 unit and $35 for the 600 one. Are these PSU's even that great? A HECK of a lot of people have bought them, but I trust peoples advice on this site as opposed to most reviews on newegg.

Here in lies the problem. On newegg tey have the most reviews and very high ratings. Than I come upon this thread and it says it fails the test at 50C. What gives?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1364812

Does this mean, I should steer clear of this PSU in general? The price was so tempting, maybe this is why?

 

[TemjinGold]

These are not great units. I would stay away from most OCZ units.

If you are never going to SLI/XFire, you don't need 600 watts, so if you like that price range, grab a decent 500-550 watt unit instead.

 

[fffblackmage]

Here in lies the problem. On newegg tey have the most reviews and very high ratings. Than I come upon this thread and it says it fails the test at 50C. What gives?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1364812

That's because a lot of people think their PC is so powerful, they need an equally powerful PSU to power it. A lot of low-end PSUs tend to fail when they're put under high stress (like in the review), but most people don't have computers that can put such a heavy load on the PSU, so they think that "it works great!"

Good quality PSUs, on the other hand, can handle a 100% load and, oftentimes, more.

 

[IslandStylin]

Ok,Would you mind recommending a few more psu/s that may be on newegg that fit what I want to do with the gear I have....

Something that won't break the bank, won't blow my system, and will last for over a few years running? (Yes, I know this is probably a ridiculous request)

I am sure I will have my computer on 12 hours a day. Will I be editing, gaming, or doing 3d work that whole time? Definitely not....Most of it will be simple regular computer work....

I have gone from 750W to a 500W now? I wonder if I am hindering myself by not ever considering to use SLI or crossfire?

thanks again