PSA - You can not Clone-backup Win 7.

[rsandoz]

The free version of Acronis True Image 11 that Western Digital and Seagate include in their free tools worked for me in Win 7 more than once with no problems using identical drives.

I suspect you may have encountered an operator malfunction.

The only malfunction is your inability to read my post. As I said, I used two "different" drives (not identical).

I use Acronis TI-1020 and regularly clone Win 7 Ultimate on a weekly basison two different machines - one a laptop, ... Never a problem. When I read these notes, I come away shaking my head. Some folks really don't know how to clone a drive! Whenever I see "restore" I shake again. Sheesh!

Keep shaking you head Win7 HP must have a more stringent DRM point system than Windows Ultimate. I have tried with both "cloning" and the "backup"/"restore" options. They both do the same, except with backup/restore you just micromanage the MBR and partition stuff.

Beginnning with Vista, Microsoft changed the "point system" ...

Thank you RebateMonger, you are the only one with anything contructive to add.

As for the posts about OEM, I am curious how the MS Genuine databases the "allowable" hardware. Since this WD 750G came out just recently, could there be an issue with this particular drive identifier?

I have reproduced this several times. I was able to restore the stock Seagate 160G using my CloneZilla backup (and also an Acronis backup) and it works just fine (Windows Genuine, updates and all). However, when I "clone" using Acronis (I repeated this), it screws up both the source (160GB Seagate plugged into a USB/esata enclosure - tried both usb and esata) and target (750G WD plugged into my 2nd onboard sata bay), the problem is consistent. Both drives boot with "The boot selection failed because a required device is inacessible".

I also tried to re-activate by calling microsoft - they said to look for a re-enter your key link on my system properties screen. There was none. So MS concluded the call and said I would need to call the advanced genuine support in the morning. I googled around and found a way to do this. I found a command line "slmgr /ipk <product key>" and re-entered my product key, but that didn't work either.

Now if someone wants to reply with something besides "works for me, you must be stupid", then please do, otherwise keep those comments to yourselves.

 

[Old Hippie]

As for the posts about OEM, I am curious how the MS Genuine databases the "allowable" hardware.

I know I read a post where someone explained this point system but I can't find it.

It won't help ya with the Acronis problem but it's driving me nuts.

 

[rsandoz]

And who say the points system cannot change over time? Those MS updates are not just fixes to benefit the user I am sure.

Update:
One of the things the Microsoft call had me do was go to "ga.microsoft.com" in IE and run validate windows. I have been trying this with firefox for previous attempts, which doesn't work (make you download an exe instead, run it, then shows an error with a hex pointer address). With IE, it now did something different. It ran inline (must be an ax control or something). The browser ran its ax checker routine then came up with a graphic of very masculine looking woman with a cowl on her face with a message saying that my windows was not genuine. After this is when I tried to run the script to re-enter my product key (no reboots, bu no fix either). After that I shut the machine down for the night. When I rebooted this morning, I got a popup saying that my activation has expired and to activate, I clicked cancel and now it shows a permament water mark in the lower right saying that this windows is not genuine. I rebooted again and got the activation popup again, but this time followed through with phone activation - 18887251047 (going through there little authkey process).

XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX

A YYYYYY
B YYYYYY
C YYYYYY
D YYYYYY
E YYYYYY
F YYYYYY
G YYYYYY
H YYYYYY

Now the watermark is gone, but updates still shows red (give error when you press check for updates - Windows update cannot currently check for updates, because the service is not running. You may need to restart your computer.) I believe this to be a bug in their ga software which leave me in a halfway activated state. I next went to ie and ran the validate again and same message as before (windows is not genuine). Rebooted. No watermark. Update still broke. ie test still shows windows is not genuine.

 

[RebateMonger]

Update still broke. ie test still shows windows is not genuine.

But Windows Updates doesn't stop working even when the "Windows is not Genuine" message is popping up. WU just stops offering non-critical updates. MS changed this behavior with Vista SP1 and all versions of Windows 7.

 

[corkyg]

The first rule of cloning is never to do it from within Windows. Use bootable media (TI Rescue Media with Linux-based OS) and you should naver have a problem. If the drives are of different size, use proportional settings. OS, partitions, etc., none of that matters. The critical thing to remember is which drive is the source and which is the target.

 

[rsandoz]

That rule may have been true a few years ago (especially with the intrusive interrogation windows may or may not be doing), but I believe Acronis and such have come a long way in that department. Nonetheless, I have used Clonezilla and have gotten the same results. If there is a read-only volume id within the HD, then no matter how you clone, isn't going to help.

proportional is not really a good idea if you have a dell with diag and such on it (leave those the size they are) and use your added space for your "real" partition.

and yes, I do the obvious as keep track of what is source and target (I would think anyone reading here would), plus, I utilize the backup to image first and formost (since I have the space), that way even if the worst should happen, I have a backup.

My image restores to my 160 and work just fine (validation and all).

Something (hardwarily) is different with the 750 G that fouls window genuine advantage (read DRM).

 

[Gillbot]

when I used acronis to clone mine, it rebooted the system to get out of windows. the clone ended up fine.

 

[Old Hippie]

when I used acronis to clone mine, it rebooted the system to get out of windows. the clone ended up fine.

That's how it works with me but I've noticed that Corky doesn't go for that rebooting stuff.

I do think his way is more fool-proof but it does require burning a CD and most of us don't have time for that type of nonsense!

 

[rsandoz]

I have done it with bootable USB media as well on one of my laptops. USB bootable media is great. I even do backtrack with this.

 

[Nothinman]

The first rule of cloning is never to do it from within Windows. Use bootable media (TI Rescue Media with Linux-based OS) and you should naver have a problem. If the drives are of different size, use proportional settings. OS, partitions, etc., none of that matters. The critical thing to remember is which drive is the source and which is the target.

It's definitely safer, but I think most of them use VSS to get consistent images within Windows so it should be fine that way too.

 

[COPOHawk]

This has been an interesting thread to read...

You can clone-backup Windows 7...I have used Ghost 15 to do so...from within Windows 7 and it works. Maybe it has to do with the setup of the cloning software. Whenever I restore, I always boot from the Ghost cd. I have had problems trying to RESTORE within a Windows environment (disk to another disk, not the OS disk)

I have successfully gotten Ghost 10, 12, 14 and 15 to work...I had mixed results with Ghost 9.

Add Ghost to the list of working clone software?

 

[Harvey]

The free version of Acronis True Image 11 that Western Digital and Seagate include in their free tools worked for me in Win 7 more than once with no problems using identical drives.

I suspect you may have encountered an operator malfunction.

The only malfunction is your inability to read my post. As I said, I used two "different" drives (not identical).

Sorry you took my attempt at humor so seriously. I did read your post, and I understand why you had problems trying to clone between mismatched drives. My only real gripe about your post was that you said:

Acronis is pure crap!!!

You didn't bother to say which Acronis product you were using, let alone which version.

Acronis True Image isn't "crap." As I said, it works very well between matched drives so, if you need a bullet proof backup for an existing installation, it's an easy solution, and Western Digital and Seagate make it free for users of their drives.

As a science project, I also experimented with trying to clone Win 7 between dissimilar drives, just to see what would happen. The cloned drive booted, but a few things were wrong enough that I knew it wasn't good enough to rely on it not to cause problems, and I searched for solutions, which I found. Sorry I don't have the links, but if I could find them by searching Google, I'm sure others could, too.

You do need a newer version of the product. I seem to recall posts that ver. 11 was the first one that worked reliably. I have no idea what you did to screw up your source drive unless you tried to clone your first image file back to it.

In your previous post, you said:

If anyone knows a simple fix I will eat my hat, but otherwise I would urge others not to follow the advice on here about Acronis.

If I have time to dig up the posts about how to do it, I'll look for a good recipe for hat and post it, along with the solution.

 

[corkyg]

It's definitely safer, but I think most of them use VSS to get consistent images within Windows so it should be fine that way too.

One of the problems with that is Windows requires a reboot to do it - and then uses a crappy DOS GUI. With the Linux=based media, it is solid all the way - no reboot needed because the Source OS is not involved. And, it is faster as well.

 

[Emulex]

BESR 2010 does a fine job at a crash consistent VSS/volume shadow backup - but keep in mind not all apps are aware and comply. at worst it will be like your system crashed/lost power. which combined with multiple backups done during a quiesced state would result in a good restore.

say if you logoff or shutdown/restart before backup. it's likely some apps won't be running that do not deal with vss. Outlook suprisingly is either vss aware or knows to do some magic as i've done besr testing downloading a large iso and receiving mail while backing up. the iso was missing and i did do a chkdsk to see what was up ; however the mail file pst did not require a check.

 

[rsandoz]

I used the latest version (build 14,010) of Acronis I found supplied by WD (googled "WD Acronis"). I also downloaded the Seagate version which I have yet to try (I suspect I'll need to swap which one lives in the internal bay).

Reason I called it crap is (maybe it is a "new version" bug) because it corrupted the source using the "clone" function.

I would suspect my use is the "intended" use of the software as most people are usually going to a "larger" "dissimilar" harddrive.

Using Clonezilla to do a "clone" or using Acronis to do a "backup/restore" from image yielded the same result: halfway working Windows Genuine activation. I am starting to suspect that WGA is not yet compatible with the 750G drive. It would seem odd to catalog all the various drive unique identifiers, but maybe they do this.

First I wiped the target drive clean of all partitions, then I used the Acronis "clone" to clone the smaller to the larger. I also used the advance option to "not" proportion out the destination copies. After this process both drives booted with the error message stated in my earlier post. I recovered my source drive by writing an image I took with Clonezilla.

After speding a few hours on the phone with MS tech support, (got another product key, etc), their conclusion was that I need to do a "repair" install on this. Unfortunately that puts a slowdown on this procedure as that computer (Alienware m11x) does not have a DVD ROM and I need to order an external one.

And, Harvey, no I didn't take your attempt at humor seriously. That is why I responded with my own humor.

 

[FishAk]

The way I read this, I'm not sure whether you still have a working copy of Windows on one of your drives or not, from which you could still clone.

If you do still have a working copy, I would be very interested if you could get Macrium Reflect to do the job. It's a free download with no time limit for usage, and I have had an excellent experience with it. You can tell it to make an exact copy of the partition, or just write the data down, and compress it. I just use the recommended settings, except I tell it not to check the file on boot-up, and it works great. I don't see the advantage of taking the time to check the copy on boot-up, since if it works it works, and if it doesn't, no amount of checking will make it work. It even keeps alignment if the original partition is aligned.

 

[rsandoz]

Sure, I'll probably try it, but I still believe it is Windows authenticating the drive it is on and somehow WD 750 just isn't acceptable for my copy of Windows 7.

When I boot Windows for the first time on the 750, it even goes through the "detecting new hardware and reboot" sequence for the new HD, so already Windows is proving that it knows something is different.

 

[rsandoz]

I did a little experiment. I borrowed a WD 320GB and a WD 500GB from two other laptops I had around the house (Imaged them first of course). I used the same image I mentioned earlier (used to get my SG 160 back). Both of these drives worked with no issues. WGA said I was valid and the update screen worked. What does Windows 7 have against WD 750GB drives? Anyone have a proposed fix so I can use my 750GB in this laptop?

 

[llee]

That's odd. I simply cloned my Win7 ultimate (retail) installation and copied it to a hard drive. I booted from the hard drive with no errors, activation issues, nothing. All I had to do was restart and install a few drivers (diff pc)

 

[rsandoz]

My belief is that my issue is particular to the unique hardware identifier within the WD 750GB laptop drive and how WGA validates this. Does anyone else have this particular drive?

As with the other drives I experimented with (as targets) (a WD 500G and a WD 320G), they worked perfectly as well (no activation issues, but had to restart due to drivers).

 

[Old Hippie]

My belief is that my issue is particular to the unique hardware identifier within the WD 750GB laptop drive and how WGA validates this. Does anyone else have this particular drive?

As with the other drives I experimented with (as targets) (a WD 500G and a WD 320G), they worked perfectly as well (no activation issues, but had to restart due to drivers).

This may be one of those unexplained incompataibility deals but before I'd call it "case closed" I'd run one of those U-Bet-We-Kill-Everything disks just in case.....

Maybe Killdisk?

 

[RebateMonger]

My belief is that my issue is particular to the unique hardware identifier within the WD 750GB laptop drive and how WGA validates this.

Does that disk pass WDC's disk diagnostics tests?

 

[rsandoz]

I checked the disk and it is fine (no smart failures or such). As far as killdisk goes, I used the "Drive Cleanse" built into Acronis to wipe it clean (has dod5220.22-m clearing standard as well). IMHO, kind of overkill as my belief is that WGA isn't sophisticated enough or even has a business reason to try and read erased data. I am guessing just an empty partition table of unallocated space is sufficient.

 

[dac10012]

To clarify, what you have to do to eliminate "This computer is not running genuine windows" pop-up after cloning your hard drive but you know your windows is activated: Get the Intel Rapid Storage Technology Driver from one of two places, depending on whether you have a brand name or generic computer, and then reactivate windows online. For generic drivers for all versions of Windows XP thru 8, including updates for December 2012, go to: http://downloadcenter.intel.com/SearchResult.aspx?lang=eng&ProductFamily=Software+Products&ProductLine=Chipset+Software&ProductProduct=Intel%c2%ae+Rapid+Storage+Technology+(Intel%c2%ae+RST)
For my brand, Lenovo Thinkpad T410-T430, for Win7 (32 bit): http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/downloads/detail.page?LegacyDocID=MIGR-74431
Don't forget to reactivate Windows, using your product i.d., or you'll still get the "Not genuine windows" pop-up.

 

[corkyg]

Don't get cloning and backup mixed and confused. They are very different processes. I have cloned my WWSin 7 drives so many times I lose track. Never a problekm at all - never even have to reactivate. In the above messages, I sense some are trying to clone a backup and then restore. That is not good.

Always clone with bootable media - stay away from doing it within Windows.

Once the duplication process is complete, swap the drives. I do it almost weekly on three machines using Acronis TI (now version 2013.)

I have cloned my laptop HDD drives to SSDs. Have even cloned my Windows 8 testbed.

If you are having a problem, you are doing something wrong.