PSA: There are legitimate uses for firearms that do not involve uses against people

[HAL9000]

What real life example do you need to know that a big ass black bear coming at you is going to fuck you up? "oh hai, that bear looks friendly I think I'll stand here and see what it wants 🙄"

I purposely didn't add anything else cause that sentence can go two ways:

"you" should get mauled, or a sarcastic/hypothetical person.

I agree, and if the only reason to carry a gun was to prevent black bears from killing you then I suppose they would be warranted, or if the only way to stop black bears were to shoot them then I suppose that would be a valid reason as well, but the places where gun ownership is legal is not just the places that are full of black bears.

 

[nick1985]

Fences do not work. Coyotes can jump them or go under them. Cattle can and will knock a fence down. And they require constant maintenance. Most farmers / ranchers do have them but weapons are needed to protect against predator animals. And I would expect a response like NECKBEARD posted as he is an Englander, where they banned all guns for the public and while police carry them, they are discouraged from their use. But the Crimminals will still carry and use guns in a commission of a crime.

fixed

 

[HAL9000]

Fences do not work. Coyotes can jump them or go under them. Cattle can and will knock a fence down. And they require constant maintenance. Most farmers / ranchers do have them but weapons are needed to protect against predator animals. And I would expect a response like Hal9000 posted as he is an Englander, where they banned all guns for the public and while police carry them, they are discouraged from their use. But the Crimminals will still carry and use guns in a commission of a crime.

Police don't carry guns in the UK, except for Armed Response Units, and those at airports, and some other rare cases.

You guys need better fences.

 

[SViper]

I've said it before and i'll say it again, just because it's cheaper to kill something doesn't make it OK.

No problem. I respect your opinion and just wanted to get a better idea of it.

Do you consume animal meat as part of your diet? Do you use animal-based products (e.g. wool attire, leather attire, soap, etc)?

 

[Demo24]

I agree, and if the only reason to carry a gun was to prevent black bears from killing you then I suppose they would be warranted, or if the only way to stop black bears were to shoot them then I suppose that would be a valid reason as well, but the places where gun ownership is legal is not just the places that are full of black bears.

Which isn't at all the object of this thread or any argument made in this thread so far. So why try to derail it even farther with this?

 

[HAL9000]

No problem. I respect your opinion and just wanted to get a better idea of it.

Do you consume animal meat as part of your diet? Do you use animal-based products (e.g. wool attire, soap, etc)?

I do, but I believe it is wrong. Yes I know what that makes me.

 

[HAL9000]

Which isn't at all the object of this thread or any argument made in this thread so far. So why try to derail it even farther with this?

I thought the OP was trying to make the argument that gun ownership is valid to defend against animal attacks etc, I do not as it is not the only route available to those people (I should have been more clear)

 

[Demo24]

You guys need better fences.

Building a fence high enough so they can't jump over and low enough its frustrating to dig under is highly nonconstructive. Considering the vast quantities of land we are talking about that would probably cost 100k, or more. No farmer is going to go even farther into debt for such an expensive non-critical item.

 

[davmat787]

Fence.

Gee, I wonder why ranchers and livestock owners all over the world and throughout time haven't thought of this?

I don't think you appreciate or understand how ranching works and thus where much of your food comes from.

 

[HAL9000]

Building a fence high enough so they can't jump over and low enough its frustrating to dig under is highly nonconstructive. Considering the vast quantities of land we are talking about that would probably cost 100k, or more. No farmer is going to go even farther into debt for such an expensive non-critical item.

So because farmers can't afford to ethically farm animals they should just kill things?

 

[HAL9000]

Gee, I wonder why ranchers and livestock owners all over the world and throughout time haven't thought of this?

I don't think you appreciate or understand how ranching works and thus where much of your food comes from.

It's entirely possible, I don't spend a lot of time looking into these things, but I do understand how to keep things in one place from getting into another place.

 

[Demo24]

So because farmers can't afford to ethically farm animals they should just kill things?

'ethically' farm? Lol, that hasn't happened since the dawn of the industrial revolution. These traditional 'ranchers' maintain vast sums of land. You expect a fence stretching miles and miles to work?

 

[x-alki]

So because farmers can't afford to ethically farm animals they should just kill things?

Yes.

 

[Icepick]

I am tired of all of the gun-bashing threads and posts that show that a gun's primary purpose is to use against people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy#Tools

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote#Livestock_and_pet_predation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_lion#Livestock_predation

I mention this because I live in an area of USA (Mid/Southern Texas) where having a firearm to protect your life, your family's lives, and your livelihood (as a rancher) is safer and more cost-effective than another type of weapon. The primary use of the firearm is for protection against animal predators, not people. Would you have a rancher protect his livestock from a coyote or mountain lion with a spear?

LOL What an insane post! Of course a gun's primary purpose is for killing people! Sure there are other uses I.e. hunting but, a gun's primary reason for existence is killing people. That is what they were invented for. The use of guns in martial applications is what drove their development over the centuries. What, you think an automatic rifle is needed for killing animals? What about the proliferation of pistols? Will you seriously argue that a pistol is more useful in hunting than a rifle or a shotgun? I understand your frustration with people who are against guns inany situation but, guns were invented and refined over the years to facilitate the killing of humans.

 

[HAL9000]

'ethically' farm? Lol, that hasn't happened since the dawn of the industrial revolution. These traditional 'ranchers' maintain vast sums of land. You expect a fence stretching miles and miles to work?

I expect people not to kill things because it's cheap and convenient, with the right effort time money and maintenance ethical farming is doable IMO.

Yes.

I don't think that, at all.

 

[SViper]

I do, but I believe it is wrong. Yes I know what that makes me.

No problem. The way that modern society developed over time and is structured, you really don't have much of a choice. It wouldn't be cost effective to yourself if you only used non-animal products and didn't consume animal meat.

 

[HAL9000]

No problem. The way that modern society developed over time and is structured, you really don't have much of a choice. It wouldn't be cost effective to yourself if you only used non-animal products and didn't consume animal meat.

I don't think it would cost that much more, my fiancee is like that, it works for her.

 

[zinfamous]

So because farmers can't afford to ethically farm animals they should just kill things?

Jesus Hume Christ!

 

[HAL9000]

Jesus Hume Christ!

Crazy huh?

 

[davmat787]

So because farmers can't afford to ethically farm animals they should just kill things?

What would your definition be of ethically farmed animals, keeping in mind what the end result of said animals will be? Why do you think having a gun to kill a problem animal predator to save many more animals is a problem, isn't the net effect more lives saved than if you were to do nothing at all?

In the real world, people sometimes have to make value judgements for the betterment of their family and livelihoods. Animals consume other animals, and we are animals too. This does not make humans evil, its just how the universe works.

 

[bfdd]

neckbeard is a wannabe jainist. he's not man enough to actually be one, he just wants to talk big because it gives him an inflated sense of ego. what a loser.

 

[HAL9000]

What would your definition be of ethically farmed animals, keeping in mind what the end result of said animals will be? Why do you think having a gun to kill a problem animal predator to save many more animals is a problem, isn't the net effect more lives saved than if you were to do nothing at all?

In the real world, people sometimes have to make value judgements for the betterment of their family and livelihoods. Animals consume other animals, and we are animals too. This does not make humans evil, its just how the universe works.

Well personally I disagree, I believe we should be held to a higher standard than for example a bear, as we have a higher capacity to understand and empathise with pain, personally I disagree with animal farming, the farming I was talking about was more a long the lines of crop farming and protecting the plants.

If we were to talk about animal farming and the ethics involved I would argue that if we are to farm animals it is necessary to kill them as humanely as possible, while first giving them a good life to live and not killing other animals unnecessarily.

 

[rudeguy]

Well personally I disagree, I believe we should be held to a higher standard than for example a bear, as we have a higher capacity to understand and empathise with pain, personally I disagree with animal farming, the farming I was talking about was more a long the lines of crop farming and protecting the plants.

If we were to talk about animal farming and the ethics involved I would argue that if we are to farm animals it is necessary to kill them as humanely as possible, while first giving them a good life to live and not killing other animals unnecessarily.

according to your beliefs, we are just animals that had a couple of lucky gene mutations. Why should we be treated any different just because of something that happened thousands of years ago? Don't you believe that our actions are simply evolutions of our primal instincts?

 

[davmat787]

neckbeard is a wannabe jainist. he's not man enough to actually be one, he just wants to talk big because it gives him an inflated sense of ego. what a loser.

That, or he thinks by coupling his philosophy degree with the socratic method that he can "fix" all of the worlds ills and human nature's faults, starting with the USA first. 🙄

 

[CPA]

Police don't carry guns in the UK, except for Armed Response Units, and those at airports, and some other rare cases.

You guys need better fences.

You mean like 1,000,000+ closed circuit tv cameras watching your every move? No thanks.