PSA: SATA and PATA are both IDE interfaces.

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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We have 3 threads in the first 3 pages asking about SATA or ATA vs IDE.

SATA is a way of connecting to an IDE drive. PATA is the other method.
Integrated Drive Electronics = IDE. Most home user HDD's are IDE drives.

ATA = Advanced Technology Attachment
You can either have Parallel (PATA) or Serial (SATA).
SATA is the new thing with thinner cables, that IDE drives use.
PATA is the old thing with fatter cables.
Both use IDE drives! (At the moment).

Do not get these confused, and can you try searching for existing threads please! 3 threads on the same topic is unecessary.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
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IDE is a generic marketing term that doesn't mean anything. Technically every hard drive made today (ATA,SCSI, USB, fibre, etc) is an IDE drive. ATA is the official standard of which parallel is the old one, and serial is the new one.
 

Vortex22

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2000
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But you can't use SATA with old mobos that only support plain IDE (like ata100), can you?
 

zzzz

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2000
5,498
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Originally posted by: Vortex22
But you can't use SATA with old mobos that only support plain IDE (like ata100), can you?

you can....with a controller card !
 

FullRoast

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
337
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You can use SATA in older computers using a PCI to SATA adapter. They are pretty inexpensive, but your hard drives would hang off the PCI bus. I guess it might make sense in some scenario, but it wouldn't be my first choice.
 

Danzilla

Platinum Member
Dec 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: Pariah
IDE is a generic marketing term that doesn't mean anything. Technically every hard drive made today (ATA,SCSI, USB, fibre, etc) is an IDE drive. ATA is the official standard of which parallel is the old one, and serial is the new one.

HUH? You just saying the IDE as a distinction doesn't really mean anything anymore? Cause it certainly did mean something when they first started making IDE drives (vs MFM, RLL, etc.). Like Lonyo said, IDE stands for integrated drive (device?) electronics. Older drives were directly controlled by their 'controller card'. Good old low level formatting! IDE was a huge improvement in in drive recognition and portability.

While there shouldn't be any current difference in single drive performance (PATA vs SATA), I've heard SATA is better for more than one. :) Still on PATA here.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
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When are we going to start seeing SATA optical drives? No performance benefit but the decreased cable clutter is a nice thought.
 

Zepper

Elite Member
May 1, 2001
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Tom's Hardware just reviewed the new MSI SATA Combo drive.. AFAIK, it's the only one and it works only with some Intel mobo chipsets - hurry up SATA II! I linked to the review in the thread I posted here about it a couple of days ago.

.bh.

Where's the :sun: ?
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
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Originally posted by: Danzilla
Originally posted by: Pariah
IDE is a generic marketing term that doesn't mean anything. Technically every hard drive made today (ATA,SCSI, USB, fibre, etc) is an IDE drive. ATA is the official standard of which parallel is the old one, and serial is the new one.

HUH? You just saying the IDE as a distinction doesn't really mean anything anymore? Cause it certainly did mean something when they first started making IDE drives (vs MFM, RLL, etc.). Like Lonyo said, IDE stands for integrated drive (device?) electronics. Older drives were directly controlled by their 'controller card'. Good old low level formatting! IDE was a huge improvement in in drive recognition and portability.

While there shouldn't be any current difference in single drive performance (PATA vs SATA), I've heard SATA is better for more than one. :) Still on PATA here.

When ATA drives were initially released, they were the first drives that paired a PCB directly onto the drive which is why early on ATA drives also unofficially adopted the "IDE" moniker. Today, all drives have built in PCB's, so it is no longer a unique characteristic of ATA drives, making IDE just a generic naming scheme for ATA drives that doesn't mean anything. Officially, the drives are ATA, not IDE.
 

Mday

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
18,647
1
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IDE = integrated device electronics, basically anything you put INTO your system.

ATA = drive I\O spec
SCSI = device I\O spec (scsi is also used on non drive parts)

the jist of Lonyo's post is this, dont call things by the wrong name.

You can pretty much blame western digital for this mix up. They came up with the term EIDE, for enhanced IDE as a marketting gimmick. Just like Maxtor came up with ATA133. Both companies whipped it out of their asses through their marketting department.
 

daveshel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,453
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Originally posted by: Pariah
IDE is a generic marketing term that doesn't mean anything. Technically every hard drive made today (ATA,SCSI, USB, fibre, etc) is an IDE drive. ATA is the official standard of which parallel is the old one, and serial is the new one.


That is misleading. There are still some very big differences between SCSI and ATA. Although there are some electronics integrated into a SCSI drive, the controller still handles most of the processing, unlike ATA, which depends more on the CPU but has most of the controller integrated into the drive.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
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You can pretty much blame western digital for this mix up. They came up with the term EIDE, for enhanced IDE as a marketting gimmick. Just like Maxtor came up with ATA133. Both companies whipped it out of their asses through their marketting department.

When EIDE was initially introduced by WD, it was indeed different from the ATA standard available at the time and added truly useful additional features, many of which would appear in the ATA-2 spec. For this reason, EIDE was not initially a marketing gimick or derived from their marketing department but a legitimately different standard which never really was an official standard. Quantum developed their own competing standard which they call Fast-ATA. After Fast-ATA2, Quantum got rid of the name, while WD continues to use EIDE despite the fact it is no longer different from the current ATA spec, nor has it been for years.

That is misleading. There are still some very big differences between SCSI and ATA. Although there are some electronics integrated into a SCSI drive, the controller still handles most of the processing, unlike ATA, which depends more on the CPU but has most of the controller integrated into the drive.

It's not misleading, because the IDE acronym was adopted due to the physical characteristics of ATA drives which are no longer unique to the standard, not due to any abilities or features of the interface.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
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Originally posted by: Pariah
You can pretty much blame western digital for this mix up. They came up with the term EIDE, for enhanced IDE as a marketting gimmick. Just like Maxtor came up with ATA133. Both companies whipped it out of their asses through their marketting department.

When EIDE was initially introduced by WD, it was indeed different from the ATA standard available at the time and added truly useful additional features,

No, it was purely a marketing term, no different than Intel's "Centrino".

EIDE meant support for two IDE channels, each supporting two devices; support for fast ATA transfer modes, and support for ATAPI devices.

The same way that "Centrino" means a Pentium-M CPU, an Intel system chipset, and an (I guess Intel) wireless networking device.

Originally posted by: Pariahmany of which would appear in the ATA-2 spec. For this reason, EIDE was not initially a marketing gimick or derived from their marketing department but a legitimately different standard which never really was an official standard.

It was a marketing standard, comprised of a list of bullet-point technical features. It was not a technical standard, in and of itself.

Originally posted by: PariahQuantum developed their own competing standard which they call Fast-ATA. After Fast-ATA2, Quantum got rid of the name

Both of those were Quantum's proprietary marketing terms, for speeds/features that eventually made their way into the official ATA standards.

Originally posted by: Pariahwhile WD continues to use EIDE despite the fact it is no longer different from the current ATA spec, nor has it been for years.

If "EIDE" is a real technical standard, and is no longer different than the current ATA spec, then why did you write about that it was "never really an official standard"? That seems contradictory.

Originally posted by: Pariah
That is misleading. There are still some very big differences between SCSI and ATA. Although there are some electronics integrated into a SCSI drive, the controller still handles most of the processing, unlike ATA, which depends more on the CPU but has most of the controller integrated into the drive.

It's not misleading, because the IDE acronym was adopted due to the physical characteristics of ATA drives which are no longer unique to the standard, not due to any abilities or features of the interface.

Yes, the fact that the drive controller electronics were directly attached to the drive itself, instead of being a seperate board attached to the host bus interface, and attached to the drive via a number of ribbon cables, each sensitive to interference. (Since one of them contained analog signals, that was a major issue.)

Doesn't anyone here remember MFM and RLL drives and controllers? :p (ESDI was also an "IDE" drive, IIRC, but not an ATA one.)

Edit: Forgot to mention, one other feature of WD's "EIDE", was support in the system BIOS for geometry-translation (early "LBA mode"), to support HDs larger than 525MB. Actually, that rather proves that it was a marketing standard rather than a technical one, because DOS/BIOS-level interfaces were a defacto IBM PC implementation standard, and not under the technical purview of the ATA standards group.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
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EIDE meant support for two IDE channels, each supporting two devices; support for fast ATA transfer modes, and support for ATAPI devices.

Which were NOT in the ATA-1 standard meaning they were additional new features that other companies didn't support, though Seagate came up with a similar feature set with Fast-ATA. That's not marketing. ATAPI support wasn't officially added to an ATA standard until ATA-4, years after EIDE had it.

As far as I know, Centrino is nothing more than a group of technologies/products that were already available, besides the Pentium-M, so that would indeed be a marketing term, since nothing was new or unique.

Both of those were Quantum's proprietary marketing terms, for speeds/features that eventually made their way into the official ATA standards.

Which is what I said. It was Seagate's (I inadvertantly put Quantum above, they joined later, it was originally Seagate's) equivalent of WD's EIDE, though the 2 did not have an identical feature set.

If "EIDE" is a real technical standard, and is no longer different than the current ATA spec, then why did you write about that it was "never really an official standard"? That seems contradictory.

EIDE was not an official standard, but it WAS different from the official standard at the time. However, today the drives that WD make and call EIDE are identical to the current ATA-5 standard with no additional or different features. So they used to be different, today they aren't. I can't make it any more simple for you to understand than that.

Forgot to mention, one other feature of WD's "EIDE", was support in the system BIOS for geometry-translation (early "LBA mode"), to support HDs larger than 525MB. Actually, that rather proves that it was a marketing standard rather than a technical one, because DOS/BIOS-level interfaces were a defacto IBM PC implementation standard, and not under the technical purview of the ATA standards group.

Might want to forget that again, because breaking the 504MB barrier was not a feature of EIDE. Enhanced BIOS was the work around for the barrier, but it had nothing to do with WD. The fact that "enhanced" was in the name was just a bad coincidence.
 

Arsynic

Senior member
Jun 22, 2004
410
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This thread is way too "technical". It really is kinda smartass-ish in tone. Really, when people ask about SATA vs. IDE they MEAN PATA vs. SATA. Sh*t, if it's good enough for marketing, it should be good enough in here. I mean if I said I wanted a 120 GB HDD and you start explaining to me how it's not really 200GB but rather 200 Gigibytes, I'm going to give you that "F*ck you, you know what I meant, you asshole" look.
 

Pariah

Elite Member
Apr 16, 2000
7,357
20
81
I mean if I said I wanted a 120 GB HDD and you start explaining to me how it's not really 200GB but rather 200 Gigibytes,

You mean "Gibibytes"?

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
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Originally posted by: Arsynic
This thread is way too "technical". It really is kinda smartass-ish in tone. Really, when people ask about SATA vs. IDE they MEAN PATA vs. SATA. Sh*t, if it's good enough for marketing, it should be good enough in here. I mean if I said I wanted a 120 GB HDD and you start explaining to me how it's not really 200GB but rather 200 Gigibytes, I'm going to give you that "F*ck you, you know what I meant, you asshole" look.
Nip the problem in the bud. This laziness is why America is so pathetic nowadays!

;)

Oh, and it should be obvious that a 120GB harddrive is not 200GB.