PSA: Rationed health care is the future

[xj0hnx]

Somehow I don't believe you. What you describe has been said before, but if you look at other Systems this is not an issue at all...except Taiwan or Japan(don't recall which it was).

It's a tired argument.

"Other systems" don't have emergency rooms filled with kids with the sniffles, billions each year in fraud, waste and abuse, and are based in completely different bigger systems. My wife's from Germany, I lived there for a few years too, she gets a good laugh when people think that it working there means it can work here. Now THAT'S a tired argument.

 

[nobodyknows]

Then we go home.

LOL, just slip out the back door I suppose? See how you are?

That may work now but if insurance was taken away from everybody and it was a cash and carry system I doubt slipping out the back door and going home will be an option.

I'm trying to imagine what it's like to live in a world where some people are worthy of health care and others aren't? How perverse is that?

 

[sandorski]

"Other systems" don't have emergency rooms filled with kids with the sniffles, billions each year in fraud, waste and abuse, and are based in completely different bigger systems. My wife's from Germany, I lived there for a few years too, she gets a good laugh when people think that it working there means it can work here. Now THAT'S a tired argument.

You're making the mistake of assuming that the Status Quo of Millions of Uninsured who have little choice other than going to Emergency Rooms for HealthCare will do the same once they are Insured.

 

[Modelworks]

Is this a serious question?

Perhaps you should checkout the various European Systems before discussing this issue further.

It is so serious you couldn't answer it other than to say 'well England did this, and Canada has that , so it must be the same for the USA'. What works in other countries does not work in every country.

 

[xj0hnx]

I'm trying to imagine what it's like to live in a world where some people are worthy of health care and others aren't? How perverse is that?

Health care, and health care insurance isn't a right, it's a service provided by a trained professional (in most cases). Why do people think they have the right to someone's labor? You do have the right to work, and trade your money for their services when you need them though. The single biggest problem I think health care insurance has in this country is how people use it. When insurance companies are getting billed for everything from a bottle of cough syrup, to check up's, what do you think is going to happen to the prices? It would be exactly the same if you billed oil changes, and new tires, and all maintenance cost to your car insurance company, unless that changes, politicians can try whatever scheme they think will get them reelected, it going to fail and cost taxpayers.

 

[xj0hnx]

You're making the mistake of assuming that the Status Quo of Millions of Uninsured who have little choice other than going to Emergency Rooms for HealthCare will do the same once they are Insured.

Little choice besides going to the emergency room for a tummy ache, or the sniffles? Give me fucking break.

 

[sandorski]

It is so serious you couldn't answer it other than to say 'well England did this, and Canada has that , so it must be the same for the USA'. What works in other countries does not work in every country.

Seems to me you just answered your own previous questions.

 

[sandorski]

Little choice besides going to the emergency room for a tummy ache, or the sniffles? Give me fucking break.

Why do they go there then?.....because they can get HealthCare with no $$ out of Pocket. Once they have Insurance and won't have to spend $$ every time, they'll go to a Doctors Office and not the Emergency Room.

 

[Athena]

Also, the insurance "company" that denies the most claims in Medicare/Medicaid, almost three times the industry average, per the AMA's studies.

One reason for the higher rejection rate is that too many providers automatically bill Medicare for any and all care given to someone over 65. Most of the time, providers know when they submit some of it that it's not a covered expense but they try anyway. Also many submissions should really be going to the patient's Medigap carrier instead of Medicare.

 

[Patranus]

It will even out eventually. The people who need the most care will die, and the wealthiest will prosper. Once we eliminate all the sick people then the cost of health care will come down.

It's an elegant Darwinian solution you propose.

Obama did say he wanted to "restore science to its rightful place"

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

LOL, just slip out the back door I suppose? See how you are?

That may work now but if insurance was taken away from everybody and it was a cash and carry system I doubt slipping out the back door and going home will be an option.

I'm trying to imagine what it's like to live in a world where some people are worthy of health care and others aren't? How perverse is that?

It has nothing to do with "worthy". You mentioned cash only. What I stated is a natural consequence of such a policy.

 

[Modelworks]

Why do they go there then?.....because they can get HealthCare with no $$ out of Pocket. Once they have Insurance and won't have to spend $$ every time, they'll go to a Doctors Office and not the Emergency Room.

If you force someone to pay money each month for health care whether they would normally use it or not, yes they will go to the doctors office, they will go every chance they get regardless if it is a headache or a heart attack and nobody will be able to tell them no because they paid for it. All it does is move the location of service. So now you have crowded doctors offices vs ER.

 

[xj0hnx]

Why do they go there then?.....because they can get HealthCare with no $$ out of Pocket. Once they have Insurance and won't have to spend $$ every time, they'll go to a Doctors Office and not the Emergency Room.

Way to completely miss the point, but on that note...what exactly is going to change? Their still going to be going to the doctor on the taxpayers dime, expect a LOT more people, on a LOT more taxpayers dimes.

 

[sandorski]

Way to completely miss the point, but on that note...what exactly is going to change? Their still going to be going to the doctor on the taxpayers dime, expect a LOT more people, on a LOT more taxpayers dimes.

A Doctors Office is cheaper to run.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Why do they go there then?.....because they can get HealthCare with no $$ out of Pocket. Once they have Insurance and won't have to spend $$ every time, they'll go to a Doctors Office and not the Emergency Room.

That isn't true. The biggest users of ERs for the trivial are Medicaid patients. Since there is no penalty for using it in any way they choose, they'll do that rather than have to wait for an appointment.

When it's "free" who cares? The public doesn't.

 

[Double Trouble]

"Other systems" don't have emergency rooms filled with kids with the sniffles, billions each year in fraud, waste and abuse, and are based in completely different bigger systems. My wife's from Germany, I lived there for a few years too, she gets a good laugh when people think that it working there means it can work here. Now THAT'S a tired argument.

Exactly. Having personally experienced the health care systems in a few countries by living there for a few years, I just chuckle at the idiots who point to these other systems and how wonderfully efficient they are. First, there is no perfect system, there are pros and cons to all of them. Some aspects of the US system are in dire need of repair, but there are many parts of US health care that are MUCH better than in other countries the lefties keep pointing to as the goal state.

The same idiots who believe systems from other countries can just magically be put in place here in the US and work exactly the same way. Guess what, it doesn't work that way.

 

[shira]

Just get rid of insurance all together. Make it strictly cash. I wonder what would happen to the healthcare industry then?

It will even out eventually. The people who need the most care will die, and the wealthiest will prosper. Once we eliminate all the sick people then the cost of health care will come down.

It's an elegant Darwinian solution you propose.

Fail

It would be "Darwinian" only if the sickest people in the population were in their prime breeding years. Natural selection is predicated on the notion that traits that provide an advantage in producing offspring tend to persist, and just the opposite for traits that lead to a disadvantage.

Since the sickest people tend to be well past their breeding prime, and have already passed on their genes, this "solution" is neither elegant nor Darwinian.

 

[nobodyknows]

It has nothing to do with "worthy". You mentioned cash only. What I stated is a natural consequence of such a policy.

Ditto

 

[Robor]

It will even out eventually. The people who need the most care will die, and the wealthiest will prosper. Once we eliminate all the sick people then the cost of health care will come down.

It's an elegant Darwinian solution you propose.

Sounds like Kyle Marsh's 'Gods and Clods'!

 

[werepossum]

One reason for the higher rejection rate is that too many providers automatically bill Medicare for any and all care given to someone over 65. Most of the time, providers know when they submit some of it that it's not a covered expense but they try anyway. Also many submissions should really be going to the patient's Medigap carrier instead of Medicare.

True - but that only underscores the problems in a one-size-fits-all government system. There are myriad companies offering Medigap policies to cover gaps in Medicare; there are damned few Bluegap policies to cover gaps in Blue Cross Blue Shield. The same types of submittals - knowing they won't be approved - occur with private policies as well, but aren't needed as often.

 

[werepossum]

Fail

It would be "Darwinian" only if the sickest people in the population were in their prime breeding years. Natural selection is predicated on the notion that traits that provide an advantage in producing offspring tend to persist, and just the opposite for traits that lead to a disadvantage.

Since the sickest people tend to be well past their breeding prime, and have already passed on their genes, this "solution" is neither elegant nor Darwinian.

But some of the sickest will be of or before breeding age, so there will be some Darwinian selection. There is that now, since there is a gap between emergency care and care that is needed, but can't be obtained without insurance or money because it's not emergency or life-saving care. But under universal health care those requiring the most expensive care with the lowest chance of survival will be allowed to die. Just look at Oregon, or the United Kingdom - those who need the very expensive drugs of last chance cannot get them.

 

[dmcowen674]

It is an inevitability.

Anything is better than the way it was for us ordinary real Americans.

You and the rest of your Elite can suck it or leave.

 

[Double Trouble]

Anything is better than the way it was for us ordinary real Americans.

You and the rest of your Elite can suck it or leave.

Oh? "anything" is better? So if they limit health care to just 5% of the population that's fine with you? "anything is better" is plain stupid. We need to aim for something better than what we have today, not just change for the sake of change. Now there's plenty of room for debate about what is an improvement etc, but "anything" is not better.

Oh, and who exactly are these "elite" you speak of? Are they the elite in washington? (democrats), or perhaps the elite in hollywood? As usual you forget that the government is a servant to the people, not the other way around. And no, the people don't "suck it or leave", that's the same stupidity GWB and his gang espoused all the time. It's idiotic.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Ditto

I don't think we have to worry about zombie Americans attacking. Health care on a cash only basis applied on a large scale is wonderful "B" movie stuff, but that's about it.

This is a good thing because now you won't shamble in and I have to cut off your head

Those movies were always too messy

 

[Acanthus]

The grass is always greener.

Not when 30% of us dont have grass.