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PSA: PFAS / Teflon Byproducts / PFOA / C8 Widespread Contamination and Extreme Cancer Risks

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
1,042
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Hello AT

As some of you may know, Dupont/3M and a number of other chemical companies and their shell holdings (example, a new replacement chemical called GenX from a Dupont partner corp has already been found in extremely toxic levels in a communities drinking water, leading to outbreaks of autoimmune diseases and cancers, already killing many) have been poisoning groundwater, streams, rivers, drinking water, and even through packaging and cooking materials, or through third party ingestion (contaminated food from facilities using non-stick equipment or many types of wrapping) it can be deadly at as low as 1 part per billion, per Dupont's internal studies, which read like something Mengele would have done back in the 40s.

If you don't know about it, please take the time to gather some information, as it's a mixture between maddening and horrifying. And not in a hypothetical "oh that sucks" kind of way. Virtually all life, including 99%+ of tested humans, have present levels of PFOA and their derivatives. These chemicals are called 'forever' chemicals because they do not break down in nature. They do not naturally occur in nature. They existed in no form before the 1940s. Initial applications were discovered during the Manhattan project, and wartime applications such as tank coatings, mechanical component sealants, etc. Then Dupont began commercializing them to bring to consumer markets. Quickly they discovered that many of their workers were getting sick, dying young of sudden aggressive cancers, or giving birth to babies with developmental defects. They ordered some of their workers to smoke specifically dosed cigarettes with PFOA, which predictably resulted in extremely sickened, hospitalized, and ultimately dead workers. They knew within a year of going into production that exposure was incredibly unwise.

Fast forward to the creation of the EPA, and all pre-EPA chemicals on the market were 'grandfathered' in as being safe, no testing required, and an unenforced honor system was loosely created where companies would 'volunteer' information about any hazards associated with these pre-EPA creations. Fast forward to scientific, research, university, and regulatory capture, and you have an incredibly dense maze of intentionally obscured facts kept from the public, and with no accountability for their gross, criminal, even murderous levels of malfeasance.

Not a lot you can do overall for any kind of justice. But, it's worth knowing the practical realities of these chemicals and how to at least minimize exposure for you and your family to the best of your abilities.

Some crucial info of the latest news on this :


And I'd welcome any additional news and info that anyone else would like to share. Best to you!
 
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Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
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126

Some statistics from Dupont's own internal files, released in legal discovery, documenting the absolutely enormous poisoning from just a single plant.
 
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herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
7,311
374
126
my family is in the area and affected by the Wolverine plant contamination in Michigan. our water here is surface water, i wonder if that is better than ground water now?
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,643
3,411
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If we just make a regulation, it will prevent billy from dumping his paint and other chemicals down the drain.

Literally, it will immediately create a force-field around the drain! Try it!


Christ, when individuals or companies do unethical behavior - they are KNOWINGLY doing such. No amount of regulation and safety labels stops unethical behavior. You know what stops it? Pound me in the ass repercussions. That means jail time, fines in billions, etc...
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
1,042
126
my family is in the area and affected by the Wolverine plant contamination in Michigan. our water here is surface water, i wonder if that is better than ground water now?
I'm not sure man, but that's worrisome, I would recommend contacting the EWG to see if there is additional info they have for you. It seems like in general the carbon activated filtration is the best bet for getting clean water unless you can do reverse osmosis.

Trust, but verify, or something like that I think.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,091
989
136
If we just make a regulation, it will prevent billy from dumping his paint and other chemicals down the drain.

Literally, it will immediately create a force-field around the drain! Try it!


Christ, when individuals or companies do unethical behavior - they are KNOWINGLY doing such. No amount of regulation and safety labels stops unethical behavior. You know what stops it? Pound me in the ass repercussions. That means jail time, fines in billions, etc...
Um, what do you think is the point of regulations? Hint: You can't give people jail time, fines in the billions, etc without regulations.
 
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Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,808
1,697
136
If we just make a regulation, it will prevent billy from dumping his paint and other chemicals down the drain.

Literally, it will immediately create a force-field around the drain! Try it!


Christ, when individuals or companies do unethical behavior - they are KNOWINGLY doing such. No amount of regulation and safety labels stops unethical behavior. You know what stops it? Pound me in the ass repercussions. That means jail time, fines in billions, etc...
Yes, we need to fund enforcement, inspection and the fines should be so massive no one in their right mind would knowing chose violation as an economic decision. Yet another reason we need to get the current batch of republicans out of office.
 
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Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
7,808
1,697
136
Um, what do you think is the point of regulations? Hint: You can't give people jail time, fines in the billions, etc without regulations.
I think his point is lack of enforcement, or nonsense fines when there is enforcement. Like saving millions illegally dumping waste water, and get fined $10K.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,643
3,411
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I think his point is lack of enforcement, or nonsense fines when there is enforcement. Like saving millions illegally dumping waste water, and get fined $10K.
Precisely. That and regulatory paperwork, licenses, and other wasteful shit.

The problem is enforcement of laws that are there and HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE that are not being enforced.

You think we don't already have laws for this shit? This is crap from 50+ years ago in a lot of cases.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
1,042
126


If you have any interest in the subject, this is a terrific if somewhat chilling deep dive into the enormous obstacles there are in the machinery of regulatory and legal actions to bring any justice to the issue.


I think we can all agree sensible regulation and accountability should be foremost of importance when dealing with such deadly chemicals and any potential public exposure, yet we must also be aware of the wider problems with regulatory capture and defacto bribery and intimidation that large corporations can bring into government. It's ultimately a fascist alliance of the Mussolini ideal of corporate and government melding. With things like Citizens United, more so than ever powerful business and private sector people can bring their money to bear and overwhelm the system for their own gains, and to hell with the public health, just as they could care less about their employees.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,157
8,464
136
I think his point is lack of enforcement, or nonsense fines when there is enforcement. Like saving millions illegally dumping waste water, and get fined $10K.
We still lack a PFAS rule since the Trump admin sidetracked it because industry asked so there isn't any authority to regulate at this point AFAIK on the federal level. Even when they implement something eventually enforcement and fines are so far down at this EPA that it's going to be useless until another admin comes along.

The states are going to move first like CA who now, by law, required water agencies test and disclose results on PFAS from their sources. This has already resulted in some well closures.
 
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herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
7,311
374
126
I'm not sure man, but that's worrisome, I would recommend contacting the EWG to see if there is additional info they have for you. It seems like in general the carbon activated filtration is the best bet for getting clean water unless you can do reverse osmosis.

Trust, but verify, or something like that I think.
i worded that badly, my family up there is on bottled supplied by the company... not sure if thats better... anyway..

we are in Colorado. looks like the tested contamination around here is all fire foam related. most of our water is from snow melt.
 
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mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,091
989
136
Precisely. That and regulatory paperwork, licenses, and other wasteful shit.

The problem is enforcement of laws that are there and HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THERE that are not being enforced.

You think we don't already have laws for this shit? This is crap from 50+ years ago in a lot of cases.
No, we don't have regulations for this shit. Chemical waste is characterized by hazard classes by RCRA (Resource Conservation and Recovery Act ), none of which include PFAS. Until they get the regulations updated, we can't start fining people. Current regulations can't just say "harmful chemicals" because you would end up with non stop legal battles over the definition of what a harmful chemical is. Instead, they list harmful chemicals (or specific traits of harmful chemicals) up front, or common methodologies that produce mixes of harmful chemicals. It is a fairly recent understanding that PFAS are more harmful than previously thought.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,565
1,042
126
Indeed, though it bears clarification :

Dupont knew 50+ years ago that these chemicals were deadly, and carried a variety of terrible effects while not being biodegradable.

They kept this knowledge confidential. When the EPA was created, they didn't share this info.

Ironically it only got out because they attempted to 'paper bury' an attorney in discovery during the pursuit of a small one-claimant lawsuit.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
17,643
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No, we don't have regulations for this shit. Chemical waste is characterized by hazard classes by RCRA (Resource Conservation and Recovery Act ), none of which include PFAS. Until they get the regulations updated, we can't start fining people. Current regulations can't just say "harmful chemicals" because you would end up with non stop legal battles over the definition of what a harmful chemical is. Instead, they list harmful chemicals (or specific traits of harmful chemicals) up front, or common methodologies that produce mixes of harmful chemicals. It is a fairly recent understanding that PFAS are more harmful than previously thought.
Yes. Yes we do. Do you think our laws on River contamination are limited strictly by only specific chemicals that are listed?
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
7,311
374
126
Yes. Yes we do. Do you think our laws on River contamination are limited strictly by only specific chemicals that are listed?
they are because we don't know what we don't know. how do you test for something you don't know exists. it would be nearly or is impossible to test every water sample for every contaminate. You must have missed basic chemistry, and your failures or law or public policy classes.
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
11,857
1,803
126
If we just make a regulation, it will prevent billy from dumping his paint and other chemicals down the drain.

Literally, it will immediately create a force-field around the drain! Try it!


Christ, when individuals or companies do unethical behavior - they are KNOWINGLY doing such. No amount of regulation and safety labels stops unethical behavior. You know what stops it? Pound me in the ass repercussions. That means jail time, fines in billions, etc...
billy sounds like a real dumbass, who is ignorant enough to pour paint and other chemicals down the drain?

let me guess, he voted for Trump?
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
47,635
7,703
126
Heres another close to home. There were some especially heinous accusations if you dig.

https://pfasproject.com/hoosick-falls-new-york/
What really pisses me off about shit like that is that it never comes out until after the plant has been operating for decades and the owners were likely going to close it sometime soon anyway. There's a business model in this criminal behavior. Milk a higher profit margin by breaking the law until the income-generating asset has been depleted, then bankrupt the company and walk away scott-free, leaving the community and the state to pay to clean up the mess.
 

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