-
We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.
PSA: do NOT test-drive a Mitsu EVO!! You have been warned!!<<Now with PICS>>
Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
NutBucket
Lifer
Seriously. After test driving an Evo (which I wasn't even planning on, salesman offered) I had to hop back into my 125hp Accord and drive off. Oh well, more motiviation (at the time) to do my engine swap. Now at least the lethargic feeling is gone (well, only lethargic next to the Evo).
Vic
Elite Member
Exactly. I test drove both a week-and-a-half ago and the STi is better than the Evo8 by far.
If you took a Civic and dumped thousands into it, souping it up as fat as possible, it might be a nice car but it would still be a Civic. Such is the Evo8. Nice as the performance numbers are, it still feels like a cheap Lancer.
The STi, on the other hand, just feels plain bad ass. There's a feeling you get when you're driving the baddest thing on the road. You get that feeling in the STi... you don't in the Evo. And that rally-geared 6 speed!! :Q😀
Vic
Elite Member
Actually, it's not that bad. The 6th gear in the STi is comparable to the 5th gear in the WRX.
Ratios:
WRX 5MT:
1st - 3.454
2nd - 1.947
3rd - 1.366
4th - 0.972
5th - 0.738
reverse - 3.333
final drive ratio - 3.90
STi 6MT:
1st - 3.636
2nd - 2.375
3rd - 1.761
4th - 1.346
5th - 0.971
6th - 0.756
reverse - 3.545
final drive ratio - 3.90
Tires on both are 25" in diameter, so 80 mph in 6th gear in the STi = 3,171rpm -- not high at all at that speed. 70mph is 2,775rpm. And the boxer engine is actually quite smooth and quiet in that rpm range. Let's just say that it's infinitely better than any Honda 4 cyl. on the freeway -- no buzz, no drone.
Here's a great link for reference
And good gas mileage has never been a strong suit in any boxer engine. The STi gas mileage is actually only slightly worse than the WRX, where my best highway mileage was only 26mpg.
And I've decided to hold off until at least spring... much as I'd love to have an STi, I'm having hard time justifying it to myself financially (big surprise there! 😛). Particularly because the STi requires a couple thousand in extras after you're out the door, like a stereo, some minor suspension modding and tweaking to get rid of the factory understeer, and rain tires....
so they souped up a lancer, which only gets two stars in front side impact tests. that was smart. who needs vehicle safety when you can go fast for 27k? 😛
I'd never buy a mitsubishi. my mom used to have a galant, my father-in-law a montero sport, and my mother in law and eclipse. None were cars I would have been happy with for long.
I'd never buy a mitsubishi. my mom used to have a galant, my father-in-law a montero sport, and my mother in law and eclipse. None were cars I would have been happy with for long.
Vic
Elite Member
I suggest you test drive them yourself. My personal opinion is that the reviewers were paid off by Mitsubishi.
My opinion in short:
The Evo handles slightly better but feels Hyundai/Kia cheap. The STi has more power, a MUCH higher level of build quality and fit-and-finish, and a bulletproof 6MT to die for.
I don't know why, but I never even thought about the EVO. I always wanted an STi, right off the bat.
I will test drive both though, when I'm ready to purchase. I have no doubt that I'll get the STi.
Any word on when the next generation STi will be out? I hope I don't have to wait that long..
Well, unless it's going to be better. 😀 😉
🙂
I will test drive both though, when I'm ready to purchase. I have no doubt that I'll get the STi.
Any word on when the next generation STi will be out? I hope I don't have to wait that long..
Well, unless it's going to be better. 😀 😉
🙂
Vic
Elite Member
Bah, those old aircooled beetles also made only 70 or less crank HP.
And non-turbo'd Subies don't get that great of gas mileage (although of course better than turbo'd models).
The problem is that the boxer has a wide footprint, so in order to fit the engine between the wheelwells it has to have a relatively short stroke compared to bore diameter. That increases piston combustion contact area which worsens gas mileage. You see a similar issue in the high-revving short-stroke Honda VTECs -- my old GSR, despite being only 1.8L NA and only ~2600 lbs. curb weight, was lucky to get 30mpg on the highway and dropped to ~23mpg in the city. I get 20/26 in my 2.0L turbo WRX.
I highly doubt I'll would pay ANY attention to my MPG when I get my STi. 😀
The newer air cooled H4 VW engines make quite a bit more than 70HP.. I was talking about the 1776 and 1800CC variants, really.. But you have to have dual carbs to get 35MPG, heh.
That is interesting about the boxer engines in general though, makes sense.
Are there any Subies that use the 2.5L engine in the WRX and STi, only not blown? What kind of numbers does it put out by itself?
What are its bore x stroke?
LongCoolMother
Diamond Member
i made a post about a ride in a evo8 a while ago. it was AWEEESOME. it handled just as well if not better than my brother's s2000 in normal conditions. in rain etc. it would kill! and it was quick as hell too.
even so i think i would still take an s2k. i like the looks of the s2k more, and for some reason (just impulse i guess), the s2k feels more exciting. Riding in it is more thrilling. although i was mighty big impressed by the evo8. its aweeeeeesome!
even so i think i would still take an s2k. i like the looks of the s2k more, and for some reason (just impulse i guess), the s2k feels more exciting. Riding in it is more thrilling. although i was mighty big impressed by the evo8. its aweeeeeesome!
Vic
Elite Member
Eli:
The WRX has the EJ205 or 2.0L turbo Bore/Stroke: 92x75mm
The STi has the EJ257 or 2.5L turbo Bore/Stroke: 99.5x79mm
The EJ25, or ~175bhp 2.5L NA version that is similar to the STi engine but is not blown and has no AVCS or turbocharging, can be found in the '98-'01 Impreza 2.5RS models, the '02-'04 Impreza 2.5RS, the '98-'04 Forester XS models, and on most Legacy models from (IIRC) '97 on (except the Legacy Outback Limited, which has the 3.0L H6). The EJ25 has a lot of low-end torque but falls off a bit on the high-end with a redline of only 6,000 rpm.
The '98-'01 2.5RS is a fun little car to drive though. With AWD, it has respectable off-the-line numbers, although it does tend to run out of wind at high speeds. Performance-wise, it came up comparable to a similar year GTI 1.8T or Integra GSR, but usually with better handling, especially if modified. Not many know about the car though, as it seemed to fly under the radar in the US and sales were modest.
My GF was supposed to have bought an '01 2.5RS a couple of months ago, but the deal fell through because the seller try to play games with the price at the last minute so we told him to take a hike (he's still trying to sell the car btw 😛).
I've owned/worked on quite a few VW aircooled's, and none that had any good performance numbers got good gas mileage. The engine I owned the longest was a 120hp 1776cc dual-port with dual 36mm carbs. That got about 25mpg I think, although I don't really know as it was in my old '60 which had no gas guage (just the floorboard switch). The 225hp 2085cc that was in my '69 only got about 15mpg!
The WRX has the EJ205 or 2.0L turbo Bore/Stroke: 92x75mm
The STi has the EJ257 or 2.5L turbo Bore/Stroke: 99.5x79mm
The EJ25, or ~175bhp 2.5L NA version that is similar to the STi engine but is not blown and has no AVCS or turbocharging, can be found in the '98-'01 Impreza 2.5RS models, the '02-'04 Impreza 2.5RS, the '98-'04 Forester XS models, and on most Legacy models from (IIRC) '97 on (except the Legacy Outback Limited, which has the 3.0L H6). The EJ25 has a lot of low-end torque but falls off a bit on the high-end with a redline of only 6,000 rpm.
The '98-'01 2.5RS is a fun little car to drive though. With AWD, it has respectable off-the-line numbers, although it does tend to run out of wind at high speeds. Performance-wise, it came up comparable to a similar year GTI 1.8T or Integra GSR, but usually with better handling, especially if modified. Not many know about the car though, as it seemed to fly under the radar in the US and sales were modest.
My GF was supposed to have bought an '01 2.5RS a couple of months ago, but the deal fell through because the seller try to play games with the price at the last minute so we told him to take a hike (he's still trying to sell the car btw 😛).
I've owned/worked on quite a few VW aircooled's, and none that had any good performance numbers got good gas mileage. The engine I owned the longest was a 120hp 1776cc dual-port with dual 36mm carbs. That got about 25mpg I think, although I don't really know as it was in my old '60 which had no gas guage (just the floorboard switch). The 225hp 2085cc that was in my '69 only got about 15mpg!
Vic
Elite Member
True. However, see my other posts.
Never mind, I'll explain it again: the issue with the boxer design that causes the gas mileage problem is their wide footprint. The width of the engine is literally edit:triple the stroke plus the heads. In order to fit the engine between the wheels and still have a decent engine displacement, the stroke must be short in relation to its bore diameter. Thankfully, the boxer engine is great for generating torque. Unfortunately, larger bore diameter worsens gas mileage because it means more combustion contact area.
The other issue with EFI boxers is long intake runners. This is why dual-carbed/dual-port engines were/are so favored among aircooled VW's.
mAdD INDIAN
Diamond Member
In this pic, anyone notice the license plate on the van in front is "5252 ARM" ? Wouldn't it be cool if it was "5252 RPM" instead?? Thats what I thought it was first, then I double checked. Heh.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 24K
-
-
