PS4 - Playing Media

[DaTT]

Are there plans in the future for Sony to patch the PS4 to play movies off an external storage device? I know there has been talk about this among the community, just wondering if anyone has heard anything concrete.

 

[mmntech]

Well, the PS4 can stream locally through Plex, but it requires a Plex Pass. I take objection at being made to pay a monthly fee to play my own videos from my own server.

I wouldn't bet on true local playback. Sony is really pushing their streaming services. Then again, it took nearly two years to push suspend/resume out the door.

If you don't already own any of the new consoles and want a comprehensive media device, the Xbox One is your best bet. If you already have a PS4, there's plenty of inexpensive streaming boxes out there. Raspberry Pi 2 is cleap and will handle HD playback using Kodi.

 

[Kneedragger]

Yeah at this point I dont really think we will see any support for local playback except Plex. It kind of sucks but if the devs for Kodi wanted and had the time to make a PS4 app our problems would be solved.

 

[Aikouka]

Well, the PS4 can stream locally through Plex, but it requires a Plex Pass. I take objection at being made to pay a monthly fee to play my own videos from my own server.

(1) Plex for PS4 (and Xbox One) is currently in beta, which is why it requires PlexPass. Plex promotes making beta features available to their subscribers as one of the perks. Otherwise, Plex is completely free (for all fairly normal features) on all standard computing devices (i.e. not Roku, Xbox, PlayStation, iOS or Windows Store).

(2) Plex is not from Sony. I feel like I need to make this statement, because people come under the impression that Plex is the streaming solution for the PS4. God knows when Sony will get off their rears and take media seriously -- keep in mind that we still lack a media remote -- but the PS4 should eventually get baked-in DLNA support.

 

[tdawg]

I still have my PS3 connected just to serve as my media player. Why Sony won't just port the PS3 DLNA and MP3 support to the PS4 is beyond me. I'm not holding my breath for Sony to take action...

Maybe Sony is waiting until they design and can produce the "perfect PS4 bluetooth remote" before they give us the ability to play music and movies stored on our networks... :/

 

[jeff_rigby]

I still have my PS3 connected just to serve as my media player. Why Sony won't just port the PS3 DLNA and MP3 support to the PS4 is beyond me. I'm not holding my breath for Sony to take action...

Maybe Sony is waiting until they design and can produce the "perfect PS4 bluetooth remote" before they give us the ability to play music and movies stored on our networks... :/

Official Confirmation in the Playstation blog: PS4 Update 2.50 “Yukimura” Preview: Suspend/Resume and More

Q: Forward thinking console? Can we have online friend alerts and DNLA?! Something your last console had th should’ve been present at launch!

A: + Scott McCarthy on March 11th, 2015 at 5:28 pm said: We want PS4 versions of these features, not a cut/ paste from last gen. Stay tuned.

= DLNA 2 with metadata support, Three box model and more like Plex Client and metadata compatibility ?

Q: Can we get an update to play videos from our external hard drives like the ps3 already does? Or the ability to stream from our wd external cloud devices?

A: + Scott McCarthy on March 11th, 2015 at 5:43 pm said: We want PS4 versions of these features, not a cut/ paste from last gen.

The PS4 will be a media hub and will use DLNA to stream a Blu-ray disk over the home network, Playready sideload and serve media over the home network again using DLNA and much much more. What's planned for the PS4 can be seen in numerous Sony patents.

Game streaming as well as DLNA Client and Server features in the PS4 are in part how Playstation Vue, Now and Store get accessed by other platforms in the home.

The Connected home and all this home network sharing gets a kick in the ass with the FCC mandate requiring Cable company DVRs to support streaming this June 2015.

Keep cable but lose the box with VidiPath, a new wireless way to watch

DLNA-Vidipath

Moore told us the first approved VidiPath devices will begin hitting the market as early as the second quarter of this year.

“there are (game) consoles that I know of that will be VidiPath certified as well.” With Sony in the mix, it’s not a stretch to assume the PS4 could incorporate the technology. And DLNA Marketing Manager Katie Gengler also hinted that TV manufacturers are looking into firmware updates that could potentially make some existing smart TVs compatible with VidiPath. While we’re still waiting for the VidiPath veil to be lifted, it appears the protocol will hit the ground running once it premieres in the next few months.

Now that suspend/resume will be here with Firmware 2.5, DLNA which comes last is now possible.

Examples:

Plain old PS3 client DLNA could be easily implemented but the following are going to be supported.

DLNA three box model where the PS4 is able to be controlled by a phone or tablet requires AOAC network standby support where the phone can turn on the PS4 and have the PS4 turn on a stereo or TV using CEC depending on media to be played (Music or Video) and control the PS4 DLNA Player/renderer.

The PS4 as a DLNA server on the home network, the same network standby but not turning on a local TV or stereo and transcoding as well as DASH (adaptive streaming) media using DLNA over the home network with DTCP-IP DRM. DASH is needed because it could be a WiFi network.

Consolidating multiple DLNA RUI server menus in one Menu on the PS4 (patent). Churn which is described as customers leaving your UI (with access to your store and services) to use another services UI is to be avoided....you want the customer to always have easy access to your service where you make money.

 

[jeff_rigby]

What does this all mean?

1) The FCC DSTAC will likely recommend Sony's passage and Microsoft Playready on TEE level (2.5 or above) hardware for a downloadable Cable TV DRM able to be used by PS4, XB1, Phones, Tablets and TVs with ARM trustzone and maybe a PS3. When will we know; Sept 2015, when can it be used; Jan 2016. No cable boxes needed and the XB1 and PS4 will be used as DVRs. REPORT OF WORKING GROUP 4 TO DSTAC DRAFT July 7, 2015
2) PS3 and PS4 will be Vidipath clients
3) Tuner support for both Cable and Antenna TV is coming (Game Consoles as DVRs)
4) A new smart TV or Set Top Box (game console) for older TVs is needed to display features coming to Antenna TV and Cable; the ATSC 2.0 features are 1080P, S3D and XTV. A Vidipath TV or STB supports ATSC 2.0 coming to Antenna TV.
5) New media delivery schemes and home media sharing using a common DRM (Playready) are to be implemented soon. The PS4 and XB1 will be supporting HEVC, likely the PS3 also to reduce the internet bandwidth used.
6) Playready ND support for in home 4K streaming support for game consoles which implies Playready 3 (OTT, Sideloaded, Ultraviolet, 4K blu-ray digital bridge)

For the PS3 a PDF on Passage was just released at the latest FCC DSTAC (Downloadable Security Technical Advisory Committee) meeting. Page 12 has a chart showing a PS3 being used as a Vidipath STB.

Second Sony Passage Paper to the FCC DSTAC has a picture of the PS3 labeled PS4 on page 11 using a Hauppauge USB Tuner. Also on that page is a HD Homerun network tuner feeding a home WiFi router to portables. The 2010 Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint (XB1) has the HD Homerun listed third row down, third column from the left. These two tuners were chosen by the W3C's TV working group as standards and their control schemes will be used as the APIs for the Network and USB tuner control standards supported by W3C extensions to Javascript. HTML5 TV tuner Control will work for both Cable TV and Antenna TV.

Comcast just signed an agreement with Sony to use Passage. This plus last year's Sony Job posting for a Sony representative to help cable companies with Vidipath, Miracast and more mean it's likely soon.

After Jan 2015 Microsoft is not charging for the use of their Playready server. They would only do that if they think it would become a standard used by Cable TV. The current listed DTCP-IP DRM for Vidipath is WMDRM10 which is a subset of Playready versions lower than 3. Vidipath's Cable TV FCC mandate was delayed by a Tivo suit to June 2015 and it was always planned for Vidipath to be upgraded to support HEVC and 4K media by 2016. WMDRM10 is not secure enough to support what content owners want for 1080P and higher resolutions like 4K; thus Playready ND and Playready ports 2.5-3 (see Playready ports below).

Vidipath was supposed to be implemented June 2014 with Playready for OTT VOD from the cloud and the subset WMDRM10 supporting 1080i and lower resolutions for in home streaming (DTCP-IP) which were the limits of Cable TV broadcast at that time. There are now two versions of Playready in home streaming 1) WMDRM10 now called WMDRM ND and 2) Playready ND. Playready can Digital bridge between the two and media can tell Playready whether it's Master quality requiring the highest DRM security to lowest (500K pixels) not requiring DRM.

It appears Playready ND and WMDRM10 ND used for DTCP-IP can coexist. This paper from Microsoft section 8 deals with DTCP WMDRM ND media being issued a Playready ND license. Section 13 sets the same "local" home networking restrictions for Playready ND that are set for WMDRM ND when used with DTCP-IP.

From Microsoft's Playready 3 site: Supporting In-Home Content Distribution with PlayReady for Network Devices page 14

"The game console, acting as a PlayReady ND transmitter, has obtained a license from the service and it sends media files to valid PlayReady ND receivers that are part of the same in-home network. It also uses PlayReady technologies to build and issue local licenses to authorized receiving devices. Note that this model can also be applied to both live streams, video-on-demand and DVR content."

This confirms the XB1 and PS4 will be streaming 4K media in the home (from Cable TV and OTT) and supports both as 4K blu-ray players with digital bridge.

In addition the PS4 and XB1 will be DVRs and media servers of 1080P and 4K blu-ray using Playready ND or side loaded media from the cloud to Playready receivers. 4K will be downscaled to 1080P for platforms that don't support 4K or Playready 3.

The current PS4 DLNA player is a placeholder for the final DLNA player. It does not support DRM and was built as a game mode app. The reason for the PS4 DLNA delay is the wait for Playready 3, HEVC and 4K blu-ray standards to be released. The reason the PS3 hasn't received any visible update to features is nearly the same; a wait for Playready, HTML5 <Video> ME, HEVC and other standards to evolve. All these are part of what's required for Vidipath. For an Idea of what's coming for the PS3, XB1 and PS4 read the Vidipath Guidelines.

Sony is set to implement four business models for IPTV, they do have GetTV in those same markets mentioned for Playstation Vue and it's a OTA Network. All models take advantage of h.265 (HEVC)

1) DLNA CVP2 = Vidipath support for Cable TV channels with Sony offering VOD movies and TV programs in addition to those offered by Cable TV. Temporarily using Cable TV DVRs to convert RF to IPTV in the home and after 2016 using Sony Passage and USB or Network tuners with "Certified" DRM platforms and DSS (DSTAC's recommended Downloadable Security Scheme) which are also Vidipath. This is the transition scheme till consumers have STBs and cable develops it's infrastructure to handle all IPTV traffic (about 2017+). This is also in one of the Sony Passage PDFs.

2) Playstation Vue for the cable cutters in major cities with faster Internet and trunk lines that can carry the traffic.

3) OTA (Antenna TV) Media Hub ATSC 2.0 support for those not on cable and using even a slower Internet service like DSL. NRT or Sideloading movies downloaded at DSL speeds for later viewing. This goes along with Sony's GetTV OTA. All TVs except newer Smart TVs will require a Vidipath STB connected to them with either network tuners or USB tuners which are seen supported for Cable in the Sony Passage PDFs. A Vidipath STB or TV also has support for ATSC 2.0.

OTA (Antenna TV) for those with faster Internet; in addition to the above, Playstation Vue will be offered. Multiple networks are offering unbundled VOD channels for this model...so after 2016 a person on an Antenna can receive on average 35 channels from the antenna with some of them offering (ATSC 2.0) 1080P with S3D in addition to XTV support and their choice of Networks via VOD unbundled and untill recently only available on Cable TV.

4) Satellite whole home DVR DLNA RVU/RUI (Essentially DLNA CVP2 for satellite) with slower DSL or Cable Internet. This is already in place with the PS3 supporting DLNA RVU.

Playready ports:

Playready Porting has several versions based on the underlying security scheme with the higher being more secure as seen in the chart below. All versions of Playready stream and negotiate keys in the same manner but Playready knows higher porting versions like "3" are more secure and content owners of 4K media may require 3. The XB1 and PS4 support TEE level (Playready 3) DRM required for 4K media including the HDMI chip's HDCP with the PS4 supporting all ARM recommendations allowing on-line transaction support.

The PS3 did/does not have embedded playready support; it's currently being ported to the PS3. The purple block on the left represents Playready support provided by the player; I.E. Netflix would have playready in the app software. The next block labeled 2.5 has embedded Playready with various levels of support/security which the PS3 should support. The next to last is probably Intel which has it's own version of a security processor. The one on the far right is ARM TEE level DRM which is supported by all AMD's APUs and I think all ARM phones and tablets since sometime after 2006. The XB1 and PS4 have ARM blocks managed by a ARM trustzone processor in the APU and Southbridge respectively using Xtensa stream processors for Codecs and more.


PS4 and XB1 hardware to support being a media hub (includes 4K blu-ray support)
HTML5 browser used as RUI for Vidipath (start at last post and walk backwards)
Connected home starts when Vidipath platforms become ubiquitous

Hotchips # 18 2006 released Sept 2013 Who owns the living room

Slides from Hotchips 18 below:

]Who Owns the Living Room? Bill Curtis - Hot Chips

Who Owns the Living Room? Glen Stone Director, Standards & Strategy Sony Electronics Inc. Chair: DLNA Technical Committee becomes DLNA CVP2 = Vidipath with common DRM = Playready



Since the PS4 and XB1 will be 4K blu-ray players I've also posted this on Blu-ray.com If I get banned on NeoGAF you can find me on Blu-ray.com

 

[poofyhairguy]

It kind of sucks but if the devs for Kodi wanted and had the time to make a PS4 app our problems would be solved.

I am pretty sure the Kodi guys want to never be on a console again, as that divorce from the Xbox took years. The future of Kodi is ARM stuff, they are super happy to be in the Google Play Store finally.

Yall are looking to the wrong place when you look to the PS4 for media playback. Not only will Sony not give support for the file types needed, but even IF there was such a thing as Kodi for PS4 as soon as you tried to play something with cinavia in the encode the console would commit suicide. Sony has this huge media division that will pitch a fit if it gets any easier to play content in a way they don't approve on a Sony device. MS doesn't have that same media division, and hence they DO support mkvs and the like out of the box.

The most annoying thing about the 2000's for me personally was people forcing the Ps3 to be a content playback device instead of using a proper HTPC. The Ps4 is actually worse for playback than a Ps3! If you want to playback local files a Pi 2 or a Chromebox running Openelec is the way to go.

 

[artemicion]

I am pretty sure the Kodi guys want to never be on a console again, as that divorce from the Xbox took years. The future of Kodi is ARM stuff, they are super happy to be in the Google Play Store finally.

Yall are looking to the wrong place when you look to the PS4 for media playback. Not only will Sony not give support for the file types needed, but even IF there was such a thing as Kodi for PS4 as soon as you tried to play something with cinavia in the encode the console would commit suicide. Sony has this huge media division that will pitch a fit if it gets any easier to play content in a way they don't approve on a Sony device. MS doesn't have that same media division, and hence they DO support mkvs and the like out of the box.

The most annoying thing about the 2000's for me personally was people forcing the Ps3 to be a content playback device instead of using a proper HTPC. The Ps4 is actually worse for playback than a Ps3! If you want to playback local files a Pi 2 or a Chromebox running Openelec is the way to go.

Haven't tried it but Sony released the "Media Player" app last month that has DLNA support. Not sure if it works with external storage though, nor am I sure what file types it supports.

TBH, it was a big feature for me with the PS3, but I've since bought a TV with built in DLNA capability which is a lot faster than booting up the PS4 (and uses less power).

 

[cmdrdredd]

Neither the XB1 or PS4 play my Anime MKVs for what that's worth.

 

[artemicion]

PS4 Media Player Announcement:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/06/15/media-player-coming-to-ps4/

FWIW, it supports MKV, though maybe not the particular codec used in your MKV files.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Yeah no streaming player I have found can play them. Either I run them from my PC or maybe plea would work but I never used it.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Neither the XB1 or PS4 play my Anime MKVs for what that's worth.

Anime mkvs are often encoded 10bit, which cannot be decoded by many hardware x264 decoders. I know all the ARM stuff I have seen can't do it, neither can Haswell level Intel GPUs (some 720p content is doable). That leaves CPU decoding, and you need an i3 level CPU to pull it off every time.

Just FYI.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Anime mkvs are often encoded 10bit, which cannot be decoded by many hardware x264 decoders. I know all the ARM stuff I have seen can't do it, neither can Haswell level Intel GPUs (some 720p content is doable). That leaves CPU decoding, and you need an i3 level CPU to pull it off every time.



Just FYI.

The PS3 I think would play them but no subtitles on the particular ones I have tried.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Oh well then it might just be a higher profile normal h264 file.

 

[tdawg]

PS4 Media Player Announcement:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015/06/15/media-player-coming-to-ps4/

FWIW, it supports MKV, though maybe not the particular codec used in your MKV files.

I can't get the media player to play any video files from my home server (WHS version 1). The XB1 media player isn't much better; I just put plex media server on my laptop that pulls from my server and then run movies from that via the XB1 media player. Cumbersome, but it works for me.

 

[Aikouka]

The PS3 I think would play them but no subtitles on the particular ones I have tried.

I remember trying the PS3 with anime just using that PS3 Media Server program, and I always had trouble with subtitles. I eventually gave up using that, because when it did work, it made the subs look slightly better than DVD subtitles. 😛

 

[jeff_rigby]

UHD Game Consoles shipped in 2013 but won't be firmware updated to support it till 2016.. These Papers are from Microsoft and Sony and apply to both equally. BOTH have the same timetable. Vidipath appears to be a part of this timetable.

There is a second paper naming both the XB1 and PS4 as UHD game consoles.

So this is understood as confirmed:

The PS4 has a HDMI 2 port with HDCP taking place in Southbridge and the GPGPU block mentioned by Eurogamer in the PS4 and XB1 are Xtensa DSP accelerators that are used for HEVC and OpenVX (Vision processing and Codecs using GPGPU with special blocks that are 20-100X more efficient than CPU or GPU GPGPU at some tasks.)

And for the Player software and License for UHD Game Console

There is a BDA Licence for UHD Blu-ray game consoles and Sony has a License for a BD-ROM4 Movie Player/BD-ROM Game Console/BD-ROM Test Player and a License for a UHD Blu-ray PC application.. BD-ROM4 is the UHD blu-ray version. What was confusing was that it was for a Category that included all Embedded platforms where the Manufacturer has control over the drive and all DRM; I.E. Stand alone UHD Blu-ray players and Game Consoles.

There is no such thing as a UHD drive; there is no UHD Drive in the PS4 or the coming Neo.

A modern HD Blu-ray drive can be firmware updated to support UHD (Version 2 disks). They must buy a Licence and provide a server for pairing/Key encryption between the drive and Player across the USB or eSATA bus. ALL blu-ray drives can read three or more layers. It's the disk that is special not the drive; this is mentioned in Wiki pages.

Key is understanding that UHD in all it's forms and Vidipath use the same open source standards >> HTML5 and a UHD TV display is a web page. ALL UHD including TV supports DRM via HTML5 <video> MSE EME standard and a common DRM chosen for Vidipath is Playready.

The FCC is considering using STBs to accelerate the adoption of ATSC 3; you think someone has a plan? PS4, XB1 as UHD Blu-ray with digital bridge can be those STBs when connected to a Vidipath network Antenna TV Tuner.

1) Vidipath from Cable TV DVRs with tuners and after Cable Moves to all IPTV from a Cable Modem without DVR or Tuner using a Downloadable Security scheme & Sony Passage (1.8 years)
2) Vidipath from Antenna TV tuners (May optionally include Hard disk for DVR) = Sony Nasne
3) Vidipath from UHD Blu-ray Digital bridge (Has mandated Hard Disk can support DVR) = PS4 & XB1 This is why I have mentioned Vidipath in just about every Thread for the last two years.


ATSC 3.0 Is Going To Revolutionize Free, Over-The-Air TV


It's Free with optional DRM for Pay TV Premium Channels
The Antenna can be tiny (Multiple towers Like Cell Phones)
It can broadcast to smartphones, tablets (Uses the same Modulation and frequency bands)
It supports Mobile for even cars without flutter
Same TV network Towers in different cities can be Frequency Synced (No skip issues and you can watch a program uninterrupted on the same network across multiple cities while sitting in a Car.
It works with the Internet (XTV) and something like Playstation Vue can be included for those channels that are not on Antenna TV. A E-Guide that includes both is why the FCC DSTAC proposal for the Cable card replacement is so important. With Cable TV's proposal you can't have a common E-Guide with both Cable TV's and Antenna TV's programming. With Vue you could.
It can support 4X as many channels as we now have

The FCC may mandate support for ATSC 3 in Cell phones to support the Emergency alert. With this and all the above, Cable TV programming will move to what will be the larger market..... Free Antenna TV with many more cable cutters.

Because the FCC wants to sell more TV spectrum to Cell Phone companies, the FCC will have to accelerate the adoption of ATSC 3. Any UHD Blu-ray player that supports the Digital bridge that Sony proposals wanted to MANDATE, can support being a STB for ATSC 3 able to downscale for 1080P TVs. It would need a network to IPTV tuner as would every other 4K TV on the market till they are included internally. Fortunately there is a standard for that called Vidipath using Playready ND that is also in Sony proposals for the Digital bridge.

Microsoft mentions Game consoles using Playready ND (Vidipath DTCP-IP DRM for in home Streaming of 1080P and 4K) for Game consoles of DVR and Live content and both the XB1 and PS4 (from 2013) are listed in Official papers as UHD Capable and will be UHD blu-ray players after (Jan 2016 mentioned in a April 2015 paper) firmware update which might have been just UHD IPTV. UHD Capable is all that is mentioned but it includes all UHD media delivery schemes because they all use the same Open source delivery software stack. Only the DRM on Disk for Blu-ray differs (AACS 2 & BD+ which are slighty changed from what is in HD Blu-ray except for the requirement that they run in the same TEE the UHD media DRM requires. Modern HD Blu-ray drives can be firmware updated to support Version 2 disks (33 GB/layer) and all blu-ray players can read 3 layers.

The FCC is considering using STBs to accelerate the adoption of ATSC 3; you think someone has a plan? PS4, XB1 as UHD Blu-ray with digital bridge can be those STBs when connected to a Vidipath network Antenna TV Tuner.

Vidipath from Antenna TV tuners (May optionally include Hard disk for DVR)
Vidipath from UHD Blu-ray Digital bridge (Has mandated Hard Disk can support DVR) = PS4 & XB1 This is why I have mentioned Vidipath in just about every Thread for the last two years.

LG Demos ATSC 3.0 Wireless Network Antenna

The ATSC 3.0 wireless network antenna is based on an LG-developed unidirectional antenna array with electronic steering logic designed to optimize indoor reception. LG is integrating a chip-based ATSC 3.0 tuner-demodulator with the antenna, which can be placed anywhere in a home&#8212;the attic, in a window, in a closet&#8212;wherever reception is best.

The steerable network antenna is coupled with a network interface to communicate with the in-home WiFi router to allow connected devices to blend ATSC 3.0 signals and services with over-the-top Internet-delivered content. The Wireless Network Antenna also is designed to receive current ATSC 1.0 DTV transmissions and similarly route them to an array of consumer devices.

Combo ATSC 1 & 3 TV tuner to IPTV which should be selling by LG and others the end of 2016 or by Q1 2017. They will be Vidipath Antenna/Network tuners.

 

[sze5003]

I did play a few mkv files on the ps4. A week ago I tried another one on the ps4 and it did not play. But I didn't have issues playing it through the Xbox one.

As a resort I can connect my laptop to a home network and share a folder to my xbox or ps4 to play stuff.