PS3 Power?

[dfloyd]

Now I dont know for sure what will be the final product but as a note for speculation the below statement is very telling imo of what we can and cannot expect.

This was posted about the videos were seen runing at E3.

"None of the game footage was taken from software running on systems using the final PS3 graphics chip, the Reality Synthesizer (RSX). ... The most stunning demo, Killzone PS3, was from an actual game engine running on an alpha kit--at less than five frames per second. The footage was sped up to 60fps in post-production."

Now I may be completly wrong but looking at that statement it appears the PS3 is going to be a heck of alot less powerful than has been claimed. Maybe even less powerful overall than the 360.

Maybe I am reading more into that, but I have seen the alpha box games that the 360 was running and comparing the two its pretty obvious the PS3 cannot maintain the level of graphics detail they are wanting to. I mean think about it, they are getting 5fps now. It would take a miracle to maintain 60 fps at that level of detail from where they currently are standing.

This is bad news imo as I had hoped for a very competitive war. What do you think?

And what does this mean for the graphics card industry. If the 360 takes over the market and the Revolution does pretty well then Ati is going to be sitting on top of quite a large stockpile of cash to put into some serious development.

All of this is pure speculation of course, but fun speculation imo.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Both M$ and $ony are full of $hit. They take the best case senario numbers from their hardware and report it as if we're supposed to be impressed. Sony gave out numbers on the PS2 that made the GameCube look like crap, even with being a year older than the Cube. Yet we know which system can produce better looking games...

Nintendo has been the only company of the 3 that reports less than flattering and most likely realistic numbers. They even refused to talk up the power of the Revolution because they seem to understand that specs of power mean jack compared to the games you pump out. PSX and PS2 are proof, easily being the dog of their generation in terms of power, they were still the most successful. So the least powerful system supporting the worst graphics of the available consoles is the one console dominating the market. Clearly you don't need to have the fastest system to "win" or produce good games.

PS3 shouldn't be slower than 360, however Sony's mistake is not with not having the clear advantage in power, its not coming out first like they did with PSX and PS2. They're breaking their trend, people jumped on the PS2 bandwagon because it was there first, it was the update to the beloved PSX and there was no competition (due to the largely failed rushed DC effort) so people bought into it with no regrets. Now that PS3 is coming out possibly last, Sony is going to have a much harder time maintaining their position as PS2 let them entrench themselves even furhter whereas they'll have to have a LOT of promising titles available upon release to convince users to stay loyal through the gap when they could have been enjoying next gen games on another system.

The same holds true for the other systems, in order for them to convince users not to wait, they'll also have to have plenty of great titles available ASAP in order to snatch up gamers. Perfect Dark for 360 is a good start but not enough. Halo 3 wouldn't even be enough. A great game in just about every major category would be a pretty good blow but I don't see it happening so easily.

 

[Ronin]

/me stares at the Nintendo employee.

 

[videoclone]

These programmers just don?t have the time before launch to release games that use all 7 cores within the PS3 and 6 threads in X360? rather they are programming single threaded games that gives them about the power of a 1.4Ghz P3 for both Xbox2 and PS3 ? It will take many years before PS3 games come out that are using all 7 processors and games to use 6 threads on X360.

Don?t expect much from the first or even second batch of games.

This isn?t so good for the consol market but its great news for the PC market ? as games ported over from these consoles that use 2 , 3. or 4 threads will take advanctage of AMD and Intel 2x and 4x CPU?s .. that are going to be commen in 2006

If it wasn?t for these consols being so multithreaded .. the slow crawl for PC games to be multithreaded would of taken many years to happen.

The consols are nothing more then a step in the right direction ?. But we wont see anything spectacular until 2007.

 

[Bona Fide]

It's just cycles. The last year belonged mostly to the PC, with the exception of Halo 2. Titles such as Doom 3, Half-Life 2, Far Cry, Battlefield 2, The Sims 2, etc. all made big waves.

*Side note : You can see most of them are sequels to mega-mega-hit games.

So anyway, now it's time for the consoles to take over again. But I won't be surprised if there's one PC game that totally blows them all out of the water. One that can fully appreciate the power of dual-core technology and the new graphics advances.

 

[Preti9cboi]

Nintendo is a sinking boat. It doesn't matter how many good games Nintendo has. It's just slowly going to it's own grave. I'm sad to say it but Nintendo will be the next Sega, developing games for the all mighty M$ and Sony.

 

[firerock]

Nintendo will survive...if they keep on cranking out those different version of the same handheld...

 

[johnnqq]

cmon guys. nintendo is so damn rich. they just aren't doing as top notch well like they were pre camecube.

mario 64 is still the best adventure game ever imo.

 

[eelw]

More BS from Sony Computer Entertainment CEO Ken Kutaragi - Text

Cell is not like that. Application programs can no longer directly access the hardware; instead, they will have to be written in high-level, object-oriented language. That was done for security reasons. If processors of high performance and wide bandwidth like the Cell were linked together without sufficient security, a worldwide system crash could occur with one attack.

Yes, Sony has somehow made the all mighty super computer used in Terminator to take down humans.


And as to the comments about Nintendo going bankrupt. With over $7 billion in cash reserves, they are going no where at least the next decade.

 

[freethrowtommy]

I honestly think, Nintendo will be out of console hardware after this next one. The only problem is, they still do pretty well in Japan. They may be third in the states, but the are second in Japan... which means more to them than us. They would make more money if they just focused on software and the handhelds. The PSP hasn't had the dent you thought it would in the handheld sector, and the Game Boy has always been a cash cow.

 

[Preti9cboi]

I never said Nintendo will go bankrupt. I just said they are going to end up making games for sony and microsoft. The only way they will turn around is if Sony or Microsoft misses a launch date. That'll provide ample time for Nintendo to take over the market.

I use to be a Nintendo fan long ago. So i'll say this.
Nintendo needs to realize that their audience is no longer 12 year old boys. We grew up and we make money. Therefore, I don't find games fun when my character is a small round puffy guy or some young teen looking boy holds a sword. I dont find consoles attractive when they are shaped like a small cube with rainbow colors, especially purple. It looks like a freaking 12 year old's lunch box for crying out loud. And the slogan "quality games over quanity games" is a bunch of ass crap. Everyone knows it. Nintendo's marketing team=idiots.

 

[dfloyd]

The point about this discussion I find most amusing is this statement:

""None of the game footage was taken from software running on systems using the final PS3 graphics chip, the Reality Synthesizer (RSX)"

Remember when PS3 was so powerful that it did not even need a graphics card? Now they seem to be relying heavily upon it to be able to even compete. Definatly does not make Cell sound nearly as impressive as the initial bs claimed. And people are right, Sony is about the king of BS. The PS2 Bs practically killed the Dreamcast, which was a dang good system for when it came out. And they are trying the hype approach again it appears. Just going to be really interesting to see final numbers and too see how many people buy into Sonys bs a second time around.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: eelw
More BS from Sony Computer Entertainment CEO Ken Kutaragi - Text

Cell is not like that. Application programs can no longer directly access the hardware; instead, they will have to be written in high-level, object-oriented language. That was done for security reasons. If processors of high performance and wide bandwidth like the Cell were linked together without sufficient security, a worldwide system crash could occur with one attack.

That's not BS. The whole cell idea allows executable cells to migrate automatically from one physical machine to another without user intervention. Cell has essentially created a whole new infection vector for viruses (good job IBM). Of course, the funny thing is that for the PS3 you just know that the game engine programmers are gonna be programming on fricken assembler for quite a few performance critical things.

 

[Soccerman06]

And what does this mean for the graphics card industry. If the 360 takes over the market and the Revolution does pretty well then Ati is going to be sitting on top of quite a large stockpile of cash to put into some serious development.

Did you know that ATI and Nvidia dont actually make the cards themselves? Its up to Sony and M$ to make the cards, ATI and Nvidia just give them the rights to make the cards and get a chunk of money for each system that is sold.

Now I may be completly wrong but looking at that statement it appears the PS3 is going to be a heck of alot less powerful than has been claimed. Maybe even less powerful overall than the 360.

Do you really think that the PS3 is going to have a completely working system a whole year before the system is released? No. The GPUs that the systems are based off of hadnt even been released or been reviewed (or talked much about). Have any of you ever beta-tested a video game before open beta or even closed beta? I doubt it, because the games are very choppy and low fps, for example F.E.A.R. runs at 20fps average with a 6800gt at low settings and it isnt even in open beta yet. I'm sure the Xbox360 wouldnt look as good if it were shown/pre-rendered at E3 in 2004. So dont say that the picture quality of games arent going to be high, because you just cant tell from this stage.

I dont know where you guys get the idea that the PS3 is going to suck balls, you cant really go on the article that Anand released because you dont know how well the cpus work together. You guys do know that the PS3 and Xbox360 cpus are both made from IBM right? They use the same basic core design (yes I know theres a difference between them, I read the article) and will work in tandem.

I believe that buying a PS3 is going to be the better choice at the moment because of the included blu-ray player. Right now they go for $3000 in Japan, and getting one for $400 sounds like a bargin. But then again, blu-ray will be put into mass production in the US by then so who knows the price when the PS3 comes out.

I reserve my judgement on which one I pick until both systems are out and have a decent quality of game (and because I'll be in college and cant afford anything).

 

[hans030390]

Yes, the ps3 alpha kit...one early cell cpu (underclocked a good bit) and 6800gt's in SLI. The new setups include a still underclock cell cpu (not available for the e3 demos) and a 7800gtx...which, isn't quite as good as the RSX will be. We have no other specs, so maybe there is different ram in the kits or something.

The real dev kits for ps3 wont be out till october.

You also have to understand that the Killzone ps3 engine had to be made in just a few short months (while still maintaining, slightly, the killzone online part) and then they had to "film" it.

From what I've seen on xbox 360 games, sure they run better, but I think their alpha kits were less of alpha than the ps3 kits were. Plus, none of those games looked nearly as nice as the PS3 games, except maybe GoW.

Anandtech once had an article claiming that neither xbox 360 or ps3 are as powerful (cpu wise) as they make themselves to be, but the gpus are.

If you saw the Warhawk or I-8 demo, those were all running in real time...no cheating like Killzone ps3 did. none. and those are on alpha kits.

Pretty darn good for just an alpha kit.

So, I find it very realistic for PS3 to have games like that Killzone presentation sometime in its life. Maybe not right away, but sometime.
Also, Guerilla games is very good at pushing the system they're working on to its limits. I believe they could make a next gen KZ title just as the e3 demo showed. Sure, KZ looked great for ps2, but was obviously in need of work. If given a few months, I think it would have been a much better game than it is. GG is aware of the mistakes they made with KZ. I doubt they will make the same mistake with next Killzone titles, especially a next gen title.

I dont think we'll be disappointed with next gen systems.

 

[Drayvn]

The thing is the Xbox360 is using a next gen PC GPU.

The PS3 is using an upgraded G70 which is current gen. And we will never see this in the G80 as the G80 is rumoured to be unified.

Anyway as Hans has said, i doubt any of us will be disappointed with the nex gen consoles. And hey we will get some great looking games which will use multiple threads so our dual cores will come in handy!

 

[Munky]

I agree on the fact that this early before the official launch you cant expect the consoles to be pumping out amazing graphics. Not only does the hardware need to be finalized, but the devs need time to learn how to use it. But I hav no doubt that in a few months after the launch of the PS3 devs like PD will be pushing the graphics evelope once again, and we'll see just how good the new consoles are.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Drayvn
The thing is the Xbox360 is using a next gen PC GPU.

The PS3 is using an upgraded G70 which is current gen. And we will never see this in the G80 as the G80 is rumoured to be unified.

Anyway as Hans has said, i doubt any of us will be disappointed with the nex gen consoles. And hey we will get some great looking games which will use multiple threads so our dual cores will come in handy!

Nextgen vs current gen because nVidia actually launched their product? You need to do some more research on the GPUs in the consoles before making such comments.

 

[eelw]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Drayvn
The thing is the Xbox360 is using a next gen PC GPU.

The PS3 is using an upgraded G70 which is current gen. And we will never see this in the G80 as the G80 is rumoured to be unified.

Anyway as Hans has said, i doubt any of us will be disappointed with the nex gen consoles. And hey we will get some great looking games which will use multiple threads so our dual cores will come in handy!

Nextgen vs current gen because nVidia actually launched their product? You need to do some more research on the GPUs in the consoles before making such comments.

True. The R500 core in the 360 will be available in R520 products a few months before it's release. Unlike the Revolution which is speculated to have a R580 core. But by the time the Revolution is released, R580 products would also be in the market long before then. So as highly rated the next gen consoles are supposed to be, PCs are still more powerful.

 

[DarkKnight]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Drayvn
The thing is the Xbox360 is using a next gen PC GPU.

The PS3 is using an upgraded G70 which is current gen. And we will never see this in the G80 as the G80 is rumoured to be unified.

Anyway as Hans has said, i doubt any of us will be disappointed with the nex gen consoles. And hey we will get some great looking games which will use multiple threads so our dual cores will come in handy!

Nextgen vs current gen because nVidia actually launched their product? You need to do some more research on the GPUs in the consoles before making such comments.

He's talking about the unified shaders, the xbox360 gpu is gonna be much different than he r520 and G70 cause of this.

 

[jasonja]

Originally posted by: Preti9cboi
...I use to be a Nintendo fan long ago. So i'll say this.
Nintendo needs to realize that their audience is no longer 12 year old boys. We grew up and we make money. Therefore, I don't find games fun when my character is a small round puffy guy or some young teen looking boy holds a sword. I dont find consoles attractive when they are shaped like a small cube with rainbow colors, especially purple. It looks like a freaking 12 year old's lunch box for crying out loud. And the slogan "quality games over quanity games" is a bunch of ass crap. Everyone knows it. Nintendo's marketing team=idiots.

I'm pretty sure the world is still full of 12 year old boys and parents that don't want their kids playing GTA. Although you grew out of Nintendo, they still have a market it's just no longer you or I.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: DarkKnight

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Drayvn
The thing is the Xbox360 is using a next gen PC GPU.

The PS3 is using an upgraded G70 which is current gen. And we will never see this in the G80 as the G80 is rumoured to be unified.

Anyway as Hans has said, i doubt any of us will be disappointed with the nex gen consoles. And hey we will get some great looking games which will use multiple threads so our dual cores will come in handy!

Nextgen vs current gen because nVidia actually launched their product? You need to do some more research on the GPUs in the consoles before making such comments.

He's talking about the unified shaders, the xbox360 gpu is gonna be much different than he r520 and G70 cause of this.

Thank you, the R500 is using unified shader pipelines, meaning each pipeline can do various tasks. Not like what the R520 or R580 can do, they have programmable shaders pipelines, totally different.

The PC part is going to be the R600 which has unified shader pipelines. Which is next gen which is coming supposedly out end of next year for the PC.

The RSX which is in the PS3 is using a improved G70, it has a higher clock, more pipelines but all the same as the G70 dont know about how many ROPs it has, and a few other improvements like 0.9nm but pretty much its based on the G70. This is current gen.

While the G80 is supposedly going to be unified shaders it was said in an interview. Which is next gen.

 

[Soccerman06]

(crickets)

 

[hans030390]

(moo)

 

[Jaskalas]

Current Gen, next Gen, I don't care what a GPU is called, if it performs for the console then all this argument that it is older is moot.