News Protests against Covid lockdowns in China now leading to calls for resignation of Xi Jiping

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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,181
2,042
126
That makes no sense at all, their economy is struggling due to low growth among other things. Their birth rate is low. They need people alive and being productive.

Im not sure if you knew this, but they currently have a population of ONE BILLION FOUR HUNDRED MILLION people. The world itself is already way overpopulated, therefore a larger worldwide population is the solution to nothing.

However I do agree with you that a productive populace is the best kind to have. But I think they should be free from communist rule.
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,382
3,111
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Im not sure if you knew this, but they currently have a population of ONE BILLION FOUR HUNDRED MILLION people. The world itself is already way overpopulated, therefore a larger worldwide population is the solution to nothing.

However I do agree with you that a productive populace is the best kind to have. But I think they should be free from communist rule.

Their current population is irrelevant when determining their birth rate.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
Their current population is irrelevant when determining their birth rate.
I created a thread about the subject of birth rates in the developed world a couple of months ago and encountered the same mental blockage. People can't quite seem to grasp that not everyone is the same age and that differences in age demographics are of great importance economically.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,625
5,368
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However I do agree with you that a productive populace is the best kind to have. But I think they should be free from communist rule.
You mean totalitarian rule?

Because if you have not noticed, China is more capitalistic then we are. So if you want to embrace true capitalism, go to China.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
I think China is proving lock downs do not work since the virus spreads regardless of the time period. We cannot isolate forever.

Masks I think do make some difference but humanity just has to endure until only the strong survive, just like in nature Its a cold reality and I myself am in declining health. Who knows.
Chinese COVID lockdowns should not be compared to any of the temporary measures seen in America and most elsewhere. This isn't like your favorite restaurant is closed or you have to wear a mask at the grocery store. The Chinese people have been under de facto martial law for nearly 3 years now. Often under house arrest for months at a time. Anyone whose phone doesn't show the green health code is basically screwed.
And I also want to point out that the number of Americans who support Xi and the CCP is effectively zero. I know it's a favorite talking point amongst your media-brainwashed crowd that half of America supports the CCP, but that's just partisan delusion.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,029
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Actually China rolled out one of the first COVID vaccination programs with a home-grown vaccine, which they dubbed CoronaVac. It's been said they've innoculated virtually their entire population, and I wouldn't doubt they have a very high (forced) "adoption rate." They even got a few foreign countries to purchase the vaccine. Unfortunately the efficacy was pretty poor once SARS-CoV-2 started mutating; and many countries bailed on CoronaVac and pivoted to Western mRNA instead.

I don't recall hearing anything about boosters in China, but I'm sure it's a thing. The reality is that most of their population is still "naive" to COVID, and most got the shitty vaccine so they are highly vulnerable to Omicron right now. With the impending onset of winter, it's actually strategically kind of a dumb time for President Xi to have relaxed the zero COVID policy, as they are quickly finding out (and again locking down mega cities in a futile attempt to get back to zero). They should have done it months earlier to let COVID simmer at a rate that doesn't threaten hospital systems.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,305
136
You mean totalitarian rule?

Because if you have not noticed, China is more capitalistic then we are. So if you want to embrace true capitalism, go to China.

I cannot support this statement. What I will say is that China is what capitalism looks like when the largest institutional investor is also the govt, unhindered by any legal constraints.
For sure it's nothing like Marx or Lenin envisioned as communism, but that's because those idiots were so fixated on their economic ideologies that they ignored the importance of the rule of law.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,435
6,091
126
Allright, is this now "Freedom winter"? First Iran, now China. Funny how the American Pubs want to embrace Russian totalitarianism, while the other part of the world is getting sick of it.
Clearly liberals are worse than fascists.
 
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Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
7,409
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I don't like the Chinese government, but to be fair they aren't really communist...they are something even worse. Sort of a weird hybrid system, along with a totalitarian ruling body opressing over 10^9 people. I hope for everyone's sake, especially the Chinese people, that someone can oust their current government.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
30,453
8,112
136
Actually China rolled out one of the first COVID vaccination programs with a home-grown vaccine, which they dubbed CoronaVac. It's been said they've innoculated virtually their entire population, and I wouldn't doubt they have a very high (forced) "adoption rate." They even got a few foreign countries to purchase the vaccine. Unfortunately the efficacy was pretty poor once SARS-CoV-2 started mutating; and many countries bailed on CoronaVac and pivoted to Western mRNA instead.
I don't think that their vaccine was that effective in the first place, lots of numbers were thrown around but the overriding impression was that it wasn't anywhere near the Western ones.

They won't import any of the new vaccines against the new varieties because they don't want to look like they can't develop them on their own.

So as their primary weapon has been lockdowns the fear is that you've got a densely populated country with an elderly population that has little natural or acquired immunity to the current variants, and that if the virus gets loose it could catastrophically overwhelm the health care system.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
95,030
15,140
126
I don't like the Chinese government, but to be fair they aren't really communist...they are something even worse. Sort of a weird hybrid system, along with a totalitarian ruling body opressing over 10^9 people. I hope for everyone's sake, especially the Chinese people, that someone can oust their current government.

Err it would take a revolution. It's written into PRC's constitution that it can only be ruled by the CCP. Xi's name has been enshrined in the CCP's party charter.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,552
9,929
136
I think China is proving lock downs do not work since the virus spreads regardless of the time period. We cannot isolate forever.

Masks I think do make some difference but humanity just has to endure until only the strong survive, just like in nature Its a cold reality and I myself am in declining health. Who knows.
Lock downs work for slowing the initial outbreaks, but it is completely unrealistic to do them forever. Especially as the virus has gotten more contagious.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,552
9,929
136
That makes no sense at all, their economy is struggling due to low growth among other things. Their birth rate is low. They need people alive and being productive.
Not saying he is right. But COVID mostly kills the unproductive parts of the population.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
95,030
15,140
126
Not saying he is right. But COVID mostly kills the unproductive parts of the population.


this is data I grabbed from CDC, don't know if it matches PRC's distribution

Age GroupCOVID-19 DeathsPercentage
All Ages
1,072,281​
100%​
Under 1 year
385​
0%​
0-17 years
1,368​
0%​
1-4 years
208​
0%​
5-14 years
427​
0%​
15-24 years
2,853​
0%​
18-29 years
6,682​
1%​
25-34 years
11,859​
1%​
30-39 years
19,122​
2%​
35-44 years
29,056​
3%​
40-49 years
44,833​
4%​
45-54 years
69,299​
6%​
50-64 years
195,882​
18%​
55-64 years
153,800​
14%​
65-74 years
243,333​
23%​
75-84 years
278,052​
26%​
85 years and over
283,009​
26%​
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,063
48,073
136
Actually China rolled out one of the first COVID vaccination programs with a home-grown vaccine, which they dubbed CoronaVac. It's been said they've innoculated virtually their entire population, and I wouldn't doubt they have a very high (forced) "adoption rate." They even got a few foreign countries to purchase the vaccine. Unfortunately the efficacy was pretty poor once SARS-CoV-2 started mutating; and many countries bailed on CoronaVac and pivoted to Western mRNA instead.

I don't recall hearing anything about boosters in China, but I'm sure it's a thing. The reality is that most of their population is still "naive" to COVID, and most got the shitty vaccine so they are highly vulnerable to Omicron right now. With the impending onset of winter, it's actually strategically kind of a dumb time for President Xi to have relaxed the zero COVID policy, as they are quickly finding out (and again locking down mega cities in a futile attempt to get back to zero). They should have done it months earlier to let COVID simmer at a rate that doesn't threaten hospital systems.
I’ve read something very different, which surprised me given China’s generally repressive nature. In fact if I’m not mistaken China hasn’t had vaccination mandates of any kind until this year. (Lock you in your house for months? No problem. Require you to get a two second shot? No way!)

China’s main problem is it has refused more effective vaccines, presumably because they are foreign, and so as you mention they are stuck with their homegrown, shitty one.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
95,030
15,140
126
I’ve read something very different, which surprised me given China’s generally repressive nature. In fact if I’m not mistaken China hasn’t had vaccination mandates of any kind until this year. (Lock you in your house for months? No problem. Require you to get a two second shot? No way!)

China’s main problem is it has refused more effective vaccines, presumably because they are foreign, and so as you mention they are stuck with their homegrown, shitty one.

Can't have white devils be better than Middle Kingdom!
 
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manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,029
2,151
126
I’ve read something very different, which surprised me given China’s generally repressive nature. In fact if I’m not mistaken China hasn’t had vaccination mandates of any kind until this year. (Lock you in your house for months? No problem. Require you to get a two second shot? No way!)

China’s main problem is it has refused more effective vaccines, presumably because they are foreign, and so as you mention they are stuck with their homegrown, shitty one.
No, their primary vaccination rate is quite high (if one can believe their numbers):

The most recent news is they are ramping up boosters for seniors. I suspect you are partially right as well. They must know their two inactivated virus vaccines are shitty, so they aren't pushing boosters very hard at gen pop. I suspect President Xi and other elites are boosted with Western vaccines. I believe they're working on mRNA tech as well, but no idea what mutant humans they will be creating. ;)

As an aside, the verbiage "fully vaccinated" against COVID should probably be retired. It's useless since at least the advent of Omicron, and most of the adult population can benefit from an annual "seasonal" booster. I'm not wholly convinced boosting the young is effective policy, but that's a different discussion.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,063
48,073
136
No, their primary vaccination rate is quite high (if one can believe their numbers):

The most recent news is they are ramping up boosters for seniors. I suspect you are partially right as well. They must know their two inactivated virus vaccines are shitty, so they aren't pushing boosters very hard at gen pop. I suspect President Xi and other elites are boosted with Western vaccines. I believe they're working on mRNA tech as well, but no idea what mutant humans they will be creating. ;)
It makes sense to not push ineffective boosters on people and maybe they've decided they can't admit the Chinese vaccines are not very effective so as to save face. I still don't get what their plan is other than a Trumplike 'it will just go away like magic' thing.

As an aside, the verbiage "fully vaccinated" against COVID should probably be retired. It's useless since at least the advent of Omicron, and most of the adult population can benefit from an annual "seasonal" booster. I'm not wholly convinced boosting the young is effective policy, but that's a different discussion.
I think 'fully vaccinated' should probably never have been a term to begin with as it was based solely on the vaccination series submitted to the FDA. J&J submitted a one shot regimen so one shot of that and you're fully vaccinated. Pfizer/Moderna submitted a two shot series so it takes two to be fully vaccinated. Are those two 'fully vaccinateds' equal? Not at all!

As far as who we are boosting and who we aren't I think the best/easiest strategy is to vaccinate anyone who wants to take it. I think the initial push to vaccinate the elderly with our (at the time) limited resources was absolutely the right move but these days who cares, let's have a vaccination party for anyone who wants to come.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,054
7,982
136
They won't import any of the new vaccines against the new varieties because they don't want to look like they can't develop them on their own.

I assume that's part of it, but presumably, given the size of the population, the other issue is that it would cost them a fortune to buy in a better, foreign, vaccine?
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
95,030
15,140
126
I assume that's part of it, but presumably, given the size of the population, the other issue is that it would cost them a fortune to buy in a better, foreign, vaccine?
Money is not the issue, propaganda/ideology is.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,063
48,073
136
I assume that's part of it, but presumably, given the size of the population, the other issue is that it would cost them a fortune to buy in a better, foreign, vaccine?
Whatever the costs of buying vaccines I am confident they pale in comparison to the costs of these lockdowns.
 
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