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Protestors In Lebanon Torch Danish Mission

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
BEIRUT, Lebanon - Muslim rage over caricatures of the prophet Muhammad grew increasingly violent Sunday as thousands of rampaging protesters ? undaunted by tear gas and water cannons ? torched the Danish mission and ransacked a Christian neighborhood. At least one person reportedly died and about 200 were detained, officials said.

Muslim clerics denounced the violence, with some wading into the mobs trying to stop them. Copenhagen ordered Danes to leave the country or stay indoors in the second day of attacks on its diplomatic outposts in the Middle East.

In Beirut, a day after violent protests in neighboring Syria, the crowd broke through a cordon of troops and police that had encircled the embassy. Security forces fired tear gas and loosed their weapons into the air to stop the onslaught.

The protesters, armed with stones and sticks, damaged police and fire vehicles and threw stones at a Maronite Catholic church in the wealthy Ashrafieh area ? a Christian neighborhood where the Danish Embassy is located.

Flames and smoke billowed from the 10-story building, which also houses the Austrian Embassy and the residence of Slovakia's consul. Protesters waved green and black Islamic flags from broken windows and tossed papers and filing cabinets outside.

Witnesses said one protester, apparently overcome by smoke, jumped from a window and was rushed to the hospital. Security officials said he died.

Thirty people were injured, half of them members of the security forces, officials said, making it the most violent in a string of demonstrations across the Muslim world. All the injuries were from beatings and stones.

Prime Minister Fuad Saniora said before meeting with top Islamic leaders that about 200 people were detained, and police said they included 76 Syrians, 35 Palestinians and 38 Lebanese.

The first apparent victim of the political fallout from the violence was Interior Minister Hassan Sabei, who submitted his resignation. It was not immediately clear if the resignation was accepted.

Sabei said authorities had tried to prevent the protest from turning violent.

"Things got out of hand when elements that had infiltrated into the ranks of the demonstrators broke through security shields," he said. "The one remaining option was an order to shoot, but I was not prepared to order the troops to shoot Lebanese citizens."

Sabei, like other Lebanese politicians and Grand Mufti Mohammed Rashid Kabbani, spiritual leader of Lebanon's Sunni Muslims, suggested Islamic radicals had fanned the anger.

Kabbani said outsiders among the protesters were trying to "distort the image of Islam."

The United States accused the Syrian government of backing the protests in Lebanon and Syria.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in a statement that the resentment over the caricatures "cannot justify violence, least of all when directed at people who have no responsibility for, or control over, the publications in question."

The Danish Foreign Ministry urged Danes to leave Lebanon. The violence Saturday in Damascus prompted a similar warning.

"The government has no intention to insult Muslims," Danish Foreign Minister Per Stig Moeller said on public radio in Copenhagen. "We are trying to explain to everyone that enough is enough."

The Syrian state-run daily newspaper Al-Thawra said Denmark was to blame because its government had not apologized for the September publication of the caricatures in Jyllands-Posten.

The drawings ? including one depicting the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse ? have since been republished in several European and New Zealand newspapers as a statement on behalf of a free press.

In Malaysia, an editor at a small newspaper on remote Borneo Island resigned for reprinting the caricatures and, in a statement Monday, the newspaper apologized and expressed "profound regret over the unauthorized publication." The Sunday Tribune was the only newspaper in mainly Muslim Malaysia to reprint any of the caricatures, and a government official warned that the newspaper may lose its license if it fails to give a satisfactory explanation.

Islamic law is interpreted to forbid any depictions of the Prophet Muhammad for fear they could lead to idolatry.

Denmark's Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen has said he disapproves of the caricatures, but insisted he cannot apologize on behalf of his country's independent press.

Thousands also took to the streets elsewhere in the Muslim world and parts of Europe, including some 3,000 Afghans who burned a Danish flag and demanding that the editors at Jyllands-Posten be prosecuted for blasphemy.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai urged forgiveness.

"God instructs us to forgive. Therefore, we ? as much as we condemn it strongly ? must stay above this dispute and not bring ourselves ... to equating ourselves to those who have published the cartoons," he said on CNN's "Late Edition."


In Indonesia, about 300 protesters demonstrated outside the Danish Embassy on Monday, far fewer than the thousands expected. It was the second protest in the world's most populous Muslim nation against the cartoons.

About 300 Muslims also demonstrated peacefully outside the Danish Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand.

Stepping up the pressure, the Islamic Army in Iraq, a key group in the insurgency fighting U.S.-led and Iraqi forces, posted a second Internet statement Sunday calling for violence against citizens of countries where the caricatures have been published.

A Lebanese security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not allowed to speak to the press, said Danish diplomats had evacuated the mission in Beirut two days earlier, anticipating the protests.

The protesters, who came in buses from all over Lebanon, waved flags and banners.

"There is no god but God and Muhammad is the messenger of God!" they shouted as they pushed against riot police.

Many Muslim clerics were among them.

"Regretfully, the march did more harm to the prophet than it did good," said Sunni Sheik Ibrahim Ibrahim, who was in the crowd. He said he and others tried to stop the mob, but "we got stones and insults."

European leaders also urged calm and respect ? both for religion and freedom of the press.

"The violence now, particularly the burning of Danish missions abroad, is absolutely outrageous and totally unjustified, and what we want to see is this matter being calmed down," British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said in London, adding that the media must exercise its free speech privilege responsibly.

Lebanon's most senior Shiite Muslim cleric, Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, issued an edict banning violence, saying it "harms Islam and Prophet Muhammad the same as the others (the publishers of the cartoons) did."

But Iran's Foreign Ministry announced Tehran had recalled its ambassador to Denmark, joining Syria, Saudi Arabia and Libya in pulling diplomatic representatives.

Iraqi Transport Minister Salam al-Maliki also said his country would cancel its contracts with Danish firms and reject reconstruction money from Copenhagen.

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It's nice to see Muslim leaders denouncing the violence, saying it does more damage than good. If these protestors don't stop, I think the blame has to fall on the police...they must be willing to secure these targets from these violent protestors at any cost, including deadly force, to get their point across.

It is also blatantly clear that Muslims are very serious about images of their Prophet. I found it interesting that Iraqi leaders are going to cancel reconstruction contracts with Danish firms over this.
 
The leaders know they shouldn?t be involved in the creation of the next crusades. So publicly they will do what sounds good to abate the public relations downfall over there.

Yet even when the riots calm down, would you feel safe to walk those streets? We know how those people truly feel about westerners and I don?t think I could ever trust them to be peaceful if given the chance with my life.
 
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The leaders know they shouldn?t be involved in the creation of the next crusades. So publicly they will do what sounds good to abate the public relations downfall over there.

Yet even when the riots calm down, would you feel safe to walk those streets? We know how those people truly feel about westerners and I don?t think I could ever trust them to be peaceful if given the chance with my life.

Given the western world's track record with their lives, the feeling is mutual, I'm sure.

The run up the military conflict with Iran is eerily like what happened with Iraq back in 2003. Lightning struck once, and now our troops will be patrolling their lands until the end of the decade. Can lightning strike again?
 
Originally posted by: Jaskalas
The leaders know they shouldn?t be involved in the creation of the next crusades. So publicly they will do what sounds good to abate the public relations downfall over there.

Yet even when the riots calm down, would you feel safe to walk those streets? We know how those people truly feel about westerners and I don?t think I could ever trust them to be peaceful if given the chance with my life.

Actually, up until this last week or so, you would have been far safer in Lebanon than in most ME countries. Much as we hate to admit it, Lebanon is the only truely functional democracy in the ME, and the one country that has some degree (after 20 years of civil war) of Islam/Christian tolerance and co-existance. There are more nightclubs in Beruit per square mile than New York or Paris, the people are basically peaceful, and there are many Westerners living in Lebanon safely. It is a stunningly beautiful country, and very, very liberal and Western compared to nearly everywhere else in the ME. They consider themselves closer to European than the rest of the ME...go to many of the nightclubs, and everyone is speaking French to show how cultured they are, not Arabic.

I (white and American) was planning on going on vacation there myself in a few weeks to see friends...although now I might wait a bit to see if it settles down...

Future Shock
 
What this shows is that these Muslims have no respect for their leaders. They are a mob bent on distruction.

Once the people of Europe have had enough, these gangs within their borders are going to get crushed and it won't be pretty.
 
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Once the people of Europe have had enough, these gangs within their borders are going to get crushed and it won't be pretty.

Please define "crushed". What do you DO with a few tens of millions of people that refuse to assimiliate, don't honor your values or traditions, and have trans-national leadership via the imans?

They already live at a bare poverty level in government housing...what are you going to take away as punishment if they don't reform? What is your alternative? Mass deportations? Mass graves?

My point it...it's like fighting The Blob, they are massive and shapeless - you can't "crush" them, you can't realistically defeat them...IMHO.

But I wish I was wrong, nonetheless...

Future Shock

 
Originally posted by: Future Shock
Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Once the people of Europe have had enough, these gangs within their borders are going to get crushed and it won't be pretty.

Please define "crushed". What do you DO with a few tens of millions of people that refuse to assimiliate, don't honor your values or traditions, and have trans-national leadership via the imans?

They already live at a bare poverty level in government housing...what are you going to take away as punishment if they don't reform? What is your alternative? Mass deportations? Mass graves?

My point it...it's like fighting The Blob, they are massive and shapeless - you can't "crush" them, you can't realistically defeat them...IMHO.

But I wish I was wrong, nonetheless...

Future Shock

Make no mistake, when for whatever reason the French, German or whatever people become targeted and killed a point will be reached where Muslim gangs go into a neighborhood, and the clubs come out among the native populations. It always happens. Push hard enough, and resistance becomes a fact. After that begins, look for a ban on immigration, and deportation to commence.

If that doesn't work, the next step is really unpleasant.
 
jpeyton
Diamond Member

Posts: 7222
Joined: 08/23/2003
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Although sad, it is a harsh reality. Awesome sig :thumbsup:
 
They are a bit late, putting it mildly.

Will this do any good? What good can it do? Will they apologize to the Danes and others for destroying their property? Their flags?

I really doubt that.

Christians are very serious about the images of Jesus and Mary, yet I don't you see you ever ever defending Christians. Nor do I see people on this forum defend Christians, yet you guys attack them night and day. I didn't see Christians burn down newspaper HQ's and embassies and other violent attacks after their holy figures were put in bodily fluids.

But yeah, muslims are more sensitive about being criticized, yet they can dish it out all day long. It's pretty evident in the cartoons that they publish.

Have you seen the cartoons portraying Jews, Christians, Israelis, Americans, Westerners in muslim cartoons?
 
Dear raildogg, speaking for myself only, your point of "Have you seen the cartoons portraying Jews, Christians, Israelis, Americans, Westerners in muslim cartoons?" is totally invalid. Why? Well, as a Muslim, I could care less how you protray Muslims, our leaders, or our so-called imams. BUT, if the cartoons are explicitly stated to depict our Messenger, then that does cause me distress.

The matter at hand is about respect. If I respect you as a human being, regardless of race or religion, I would not intentionally cause you distress by insulting something you hold dear. Isn that not the definition of being a human being and respect? It does not matter that you do not understand the reason, our psyche for why we are caused such distress. Once you do know that are distressed, then why should you persist in causing us grief? Especially since you stand to gain nothing by it?

I would love to hear your response. Peace.
 
Muslims are burning buildings, destroying property, doing violence to people, and someone is causing THEM grief? haha. That's rich.
Violence is not an acceptable form of protest. It will be met with violence.
Besides, did the Israelis go after Muslims when Iran said they should be wiped from the map? Or when Iran claimed the Nazis didn't murder 6 million Jews?
No, they didn't.
 
Originally posted by: raildogg
Will this do any good? What good can it do? Will they apologize to the Danes and others for destroying their property? Their flags?

I really doubt that.

Lebanon apologised and the Lebanese interior minister stepped down because he couldn't stop the mob.
 
Originally posted by: arsbanned
Muslims are burning buildings, destroying property, doing violence to people, and someone is causing THEM grief? haha. That's rich.
Violence is not an acceptable form of protest. It will be met with violence.
Besides, did the Israelis go after Muslims when Iran said they should be wiped from the map? Or when Iran claimed the Nazis didn't murder 6 million Jews?
No, they didn't.


That violence is wrong. Speaking of Isreal, I have only one question: If the European nations had and have such guilt over the treatment of Jews in WWII, why give the Jews a state in Gernany? Why punish the people of Palestine?

I believe man landed on the man, and I hate when crazies claim it was a hoax. I also believe the holocaust occured, and it is correct to remember it. But the inflicted have become the inflictors. Can this question be answerd: why punish the people of Palestine for the crimes of the German Nazis?????
 
YES YOU HAVE A FRICKIN' RIGHT TO PUBLISH WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!

But there is a difference between a right and a choice. If you want to INTENTIONALLY INSULT Muslims then go ahead.

I could care less how you protray Muslims, our leaders, or our so-called imams. BUT, if the cartoons are explicitly stated to depict our Messenger, then that does cause me distress.

The matter at hand is about respect. If I respect you as a human being, regardless of race or religion, I would not intentionally cause you distress by insulting something you hold dear. Isn that not the definition of being a human being and respect? It does not matter that you do not understand the reason, our psyche for why we are caused such distress. Once you do know that are distressed, then why should you persist in causing us grief? Especially since you stand to gain nothing by it?


Also, I'm bitter about this world. Clash of fcking Civilizations? Hardly! Its the Childishness of Civilizations. I believe that most humans are stupid, regardless of nationality or religion. A LOT of Muslims are extremely stupid. So are Christians, Jews, blah blah. Stupidity trasncends boundaries.

Let me make myself clear. WHY THE FCK IS SO MUCH HUMAN EFFORT SPENT in WAR AND HATE?? The USA's 'defense' budget alone could solve ALL the world's hunger and poverty and easily curable diseases in poor nations. And no, I do not for a moment think it is just the white man who wages war. Look at Africa. Look at what we the Muslims do to ourselves.

For this blind self-destruction, disregard and disrespect for others, humans are the least intelligent species on the planet.

Finally, coming from such a general perspective to a more specific ones, I have questions for you in the USA: I know, I understand, I respect, and share your grief about the attack on the WTC. You ask yourself WHO did that. Why do you not ask WHY it was done if it was done by some muslim group? WHY do they hate us so? Maybe you'll find the answers are not that we are mad, unreasoning creatures, but humans who have been harmed by you. Do not hide behind ignorance or self-righteousness. You know what the US government has been involved in in South America, the Middle East, and Africa. Do not wish away the Palestinian people. If the European nations carry a burden of guilt over the treatment of Jews in WWII, then why not give the Jews a home in Germany? Why punish the people of Palestine?

Oh, and by the way, I hate people like bin laden more than anyone else, because they have become the twisted, corrupt, degenerate face of Islam. They above all are the enemies of my religion. Like I said, I believe stupidity and ignorance transends all boundaries.
 
Originally posted by: UzairH
YES YOU HAVE A FRICKIN' RIGHT TO PUBLISH WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!

But there is a difference between a right and a choice. If you want to INTENTIONALLY INSULT Muslims then go ahead.

I could care less how you protray Muslims, our leaders, or our so-called imams. BUT, if the cartoons are explicitly stated to depict our Messenger, then that does cause me distress.

The matter at hand is about respect. If I respect you as a human being, regardless of race or religion, I would not intentionally cause you distress by insulting something you hold dear. Isn that not the definition of being a human being and respect? It does not matter that you do not understand the reason, our psyche for why we are caused such distress. Once you do know that are distressed, then why should you persist in causing us grief? Especially since you stand to gain nothing by it?


Also, I'm bitter about this world. Clash of fcking Civilizations? Hardly! Its the Childishness of Civilizations. I believe that most humans are stupid, regardless of nationality or religion. A LOT of Muslims are extremely stupid. So are Christians, Jews, blah blah. Stupidity trasncends boundaries.

Let me make myself clear. WHY THE FCK IS SO MUCH HUMAN EFFORT SPENT in WAR AND HATE?? The USA's 'defense' budget alone could solve ALL the world's hunger and poverty and easily curable diseases in poor nations. And no, I do not for a moment think it is just the white man who wages war. Look at Africa. Look at what we the Muslims do to ourselves.

For this blind self-destruction, disregard and disrespect for others, humans are the least intelligent species on the planet.

Finally, coming from such a general perspective to a more specific ones, I have questions for you in the USA: I know, I understand, I respect, and share your grief about the attack on the WTC. You ask yourself WHO did that. Why do you not ask WHY it was done if it was done by some muslim group? WHY do they hate us so? Maybe you'll find the answers are not that we are mad, unreasoning creatures, but humans who have been harmed by you. Do not hide behind ignorance or self-righteousness. You know what the US government has been involved in in South America, the Middle East, and Africa. Do not wish away the Palestinian people. If the European nations carry a burden of guilt over the treatment of Jews in WWII, then why not give the Jews a home in Germany? Why punish the people of Palestine?

Oh, and by the way, I hate people like bin laden more than anyone else, because they have become the twisted, corrupt, degenerate face of Islam. They above all are the enemies of my religion. Like I said, I believe stupidity and ignorance transends all boundaries.

UzairH -
I have taken mostly an inflammatory role on these forums concerning this issue, mostly because the people taking the side if Islam seem fairly blind to our rights. Well at least you have responded that we have the right to publish what we want.

With that, I agree the Muslim cartoons about your Prophet was probably misguided and in bad taste. The real problem is how we reconcile and decide whether it was acceptable to publish those cartoons or not. I feel that though better decisions could have been made, it is totally permissible to show those cartoons about your Prophet. Although it is regretful that someone did have to post them, when we REALLY come down to the issue, I have to take the Danish newspaper's side. Also, I don't feel the core of the matter is respect. Humans in civilized, freedom-based countries do not slaughter each other over matters of respect (and get away with it). Nobody is accorded respect no matter what! Not the President, not your authority figures. Respect is given freely, not demanded or forced.

I think that's the schism that divides the two camps right now. One camp believes that they have some right to respect over their religion, and their Prophet most importantly. The other side is saying that we do not need to give you respect, and that any respect accorded to you is of our own free will, not because you demand it.

The westerners did not draw blood first. I have been taught ever since I was young that the person who throws the stone first is wrong, whether there was verbal combat beforehand or not. In this way, I feel the Muslim radicals are wrong.

I guess the point is - it happened. It had to have happened. Something the Danish posted was amplified and distorted in the ME countries, and now sh*t has hit the fan. But when it comes to this crucial point in time, which side do we take? Do we take the side of Islam and accept the erosion of our basic rights to free speech and press? Or do we say 'no', and stand firm?

I choose to stand firm. The issue is at hand, and one must stake their decisions, for good or for worse.
 
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