Protesters = Terrorists? They are according to this proposed law.

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
Yes, it does. This is America. Love it or leave it.

You, sir, have just won the award for stupidest post of the year.
That's right... this IS America. Land of the Free, Home of the Brave. Not the tyranny you seem to want to make it.
BTW, protesting (whether you like it or not, I personally am not a big fan) is a 1st Amendment protected right.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Why don't YOU love it or leave it, ok?

Thanks for the compliment. I HAVE served my country with several years of military service. I AM a citizen of this country. I DO appreciate having the right to freedom. However, the protestors are just plain stupid. They have NO IDEA what they are protesting. They are "just going along with the crowd" in most cases.

I LOVE America. I have no reason to LEAVE America.

Thank you, very much.

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: zippy

Originally posted by: Amused
While I disagree with the knee-jerk reactionism of this bill, I must say something:

Protesters today have no idea what civil disobedience is. It's the act of breaking an unjust law, and forcing judicial review. It IS NOT the act of breaking just laws, and denying other individuals their civil rights to protest something completely unrelated to the law you are breaking and the rights you are violating.

Rosa Parks: Justifiable civil disobedience. She broke the Jim Crow laws because they were unjust. She did not break laws unrelated to the one she was protesting.

People who chain themselves to businesses and/or block traffic to protest something that is not related to trespassing and traffic laws: Idiots who deserve prosecution.

Agreed, prosecuted as terrorists? They may be stupid, but does stupidity warrant 25 years in prison?

Yes, it does. This is America. Love it or leave it.

Are you being sarcastic, or do you have a point I'm missing?

I thought I had a very clear point when I made the post. Either you support our country fully, or get the hell out. America doesn't need to have any tolerance for those who are not supporting the war. Heck, kick the draft back into gear and get those punk protestors put through some military training. Their attitude would change real quick.

Oh, I fully support the protesting measure. Living outside of D.C., that silly "tractor guy" created quite a mess. When "tractor guy" had the attention of the police agencies and the media, what would have stopped some terrorists from taking out a major portion of D.C.???? That's right. Protestors are a nuisance ... and they are getting in the way of protecting the peace. Sooner or later, protesters are going to create a good diversion that some terrorist group is going to take advantage of. Once that happens, your opinion will probably change real quickly.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech
Yes, it does. This is America. Love it or leave it.

You, sir, have just won the award for stupidest post of the year.
That's right... this IS America. Land of the Free, Home of the Brave. Not the tyranny you seem to want to make it.
BTW, protesting (whether you like it or not, I personally am not a big fan) is a 1st Amendment protected right.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Why don't YOU love it or leave it, ok?

Thanks for the compliment. I HAVE served my country with several years of military service. I AM a citizen of this country. I DO appreciate having the right to freedom. However, the protestors are just plain stupid. They have NO IDEA what they are protesting. They are "just going along with the crowd" in most cases.

I LOVE America. I have no reason to LEAVE America.

Thank you, very much.

Well... first let me say thank you for serving our country, even though I find that fact irrelevant to this current debate.
The intelligence of the protesters is also irrelevant. What they are doing is a protected right, insofar as they protest peacefully. I may not like what they do, but I will defend their right to do it.
By all means, love America and stay here. But recognize that America means not just defending your own rights and freedoms, nor just defending the rights and freedoms of those who agree with you, but defending everyone's rights and freedoms, even (or perhaps especially?) when you disagree.

 

Holy crap - this has gone wayyyy to far. Civil disobedience should be an arrestable offense, but the perps should DEFINITELY NOT be tried as terrorists! If they believe laws are unjust, then they should have to pay the price for disobeying CIVIL laws...not for being terrorists.

 

[waggy]

i do think that the protesters blocking traffic and hurting business should get harsh punishment but calling them traitors and 25yrs of prison is nuts.

the parts of the bill:
38) Unlawful labeling of a sound recording, as defined in ORS 164.868.
(39) Unlawful recording of a live performance, as defined in ORS 164.869.
(40) Unlawful labeling of a videotape recording, as defined in ORS 164.872.

i dont get. what exactly are they against?

ohwell it will never pass. the punishment does not fit the crime.

 

[TallBill]

Take up your problems with John Minnis and whoever backs the bill, not the US Government.. He proposed the bill, and its not going to pass. You all are way overreacting.

 

[jaeger66]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech


I thought I had a very clear point when I made the post. Either you support our country fully, or get the hell out. America doesn't need to have any tolerance for those who are not supporting the war. Heck, kick the draft back into gear and get those punk protestors put through some military training. Their attitude would change real quick.

Oh, I fully support the protesting measure. Living outside of D.C., that silly "tractor guy" created quite a mess. When "tractor guy" had the attention of the police agencies and the media, what would have stopped some terrorists from taking out a major portion of D.C.???? That's right. Protestors are a nuisance ... and they are getting in the way of protecting the peace. Sooner or later, protesters are going to create a good diversion that some terrorist group is going to take advantage of. Once that happens, your opinion will probably change real quickly.

McCarthyism-alive and well in the 21st century. Some people just never learn I guess.

 

[Fausto]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: zippy

Originally posted by: Amused
While I disagree with the knee-jerk reactionism of this bill, I must say something:

Protesters today have no idea what civil disobedience is. It's the act of breaking an unjust law, and forcing judicial review. It IS NOT the act of breaking just laws, and denying other individuals their civil rights to protest something completely unrelated to the law you are breaking and the rights you are violating.

Rosa Parks: Justifiable civil disobedience. She broke the Jim Crow laws because they were unjust. She did not break laws unrelated to the one she was protesting.

People who chain themselves to businesses and/or block traffic to protest something that is not related to trespassing and traffic laws: Idiots who deserve prosecution.

Agreed, prosecuted as terrorists? They may be stupid, but does stupidity warrant 25 years in prison?

Yes, it does. This is America. Love it or leave it.

Are you being sarcastic, or do you have a point I'm missing?

I thought I had a very clear point when I made the post. Either you support our country fully, or get the hell out. America doesn't need to have any tolerance for those who are not supporting the war. Heck, kick the draft back into gear and get those punk protestors put through some military training. Their attitude would change real quick.

Hmm...."support the country fully or get out". So you're basically saying that every law, lawmaker and decisions made by those persons are unassailable? Doesn't that sound just a little bit like papal infallability to you? This country was founded by people who had a gripe, you served our country to protect the result of those gripes, but subsequent gripes are verboten? Where's the logic in that?

Oh, I fully support the protesting measure. Living outside of D.C., that silly "tractor guy" created quite a mess. When "tractor guy" had the attention of the police agencies and the media, what would have stopped some terrorists from taking out a major portion of D.C.???? That's right. Protestors are a nuisance ... and they are getting in the way of protecting the peace. Sooner or later, protesters are going to create a good diversion that some terrorist group is going to take advantage of. Once that happens, your opinion will probably change real quickly.

Uhuh....better get rid of the "Rallies for America" too....there were thousands of those jingoistic jokers clogging up downtown Atlanta and other cities a few weeks ago....god knows what some terrorist could have pulled.

 

[TallBill]

McCarthyism-alive and well in the 21st century. Some people just never learn I guess.

Except he wasnt pointing out individuals of power and stripping their power and livlyhood from them in an effort to better himself. Some people just dont know history.

 

[gwlam12]

do protestors intend to disrupt business, transportation, schools, gov't, or free assembly? i dont think that is their intention so protestors would not fall under the category. also, police officers who try to disband protestors would be violating the right to free assembly, making them a terrorist as well.

 

[TallBill]

There is a major difference between our founding fathers and current lawlessness. Our founding fathers had a revolution, and risked their very lives to overthrow an entire government. THey were not just upset about a law. Would you give your life to try to change things, I think not.

 

[jaeger66]

Originally posted by: TallBill


Except he wasnt pointing out individuals of power and stripping their power and livlyhood from them in an effort to better himself. Some people just dont know history.

Same underlying principle regardless of motivation-zero tolerance for opinions contrary to our government's.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: gwlam12
do protestors intend to disrupt business, transportation, schools, gov't, or free assembly? i dont think that is their intention so protestors would not fall under the category. also, police officers who try to disband protestors would be violating the right to free assembly, making them a terrorist as well.

Neither of those points are true. In major cities across the country, so called protesters decided to block traffic, which distriupts a lot of things in a crowded city. Even if they didnt purposefully block traffic, they still dont have the right to disrupt the lives of others.

And police officers are not just disbanding protestors whenever they want. Protests are legal, but must meet local ordinance. You cant cram a ton of protestors in a certain location if its a fire hazard. I have heard of zero stories of police just busting a protest because they didnt like it. There were law violations or safety concerns in every case.

 

[TallBill]

Same underlying principle regardless of motivation-zero tolerance for opinions contrary to our government's.

After rereading his post, i understand where your coming from. I agree with his negative feelings towards disrupting things, but yeah I dont think a terrorist will blow something up because a police had to go arrest someone else.

 

[T2T III]

Fausto1,

Thanks for the nice debate. I really appreciated the opportunity to "vent" my beliefs and have them challenged. Getting them challenged was not my intent - but, it was a result of my posts and my beliefs.

 

[KevinH]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: Vic
Deeko, you live in Oregon? No. So kindly STFU and work to pass the law in your own state. Leave my state alone from your idiotic, bigoted, and ill-informed bullsh!t.

bigoted? Where the hell are you getting bigoted? And go cry to mommy if you don't like it.

I just love it how you dismiss everyone who has a point, you don't fight the point, you just wiggle your hips a bit and come up with an answer like that...

Alright, would you prefer I repeat myself? I could repeat myself. Is that valuable? Fine.

Being ruled a terrorist is too strict for such actions. However, current punishments are apparently not enough to stop people from doing it, or just not being enforced. So if people are continually doing this, logical course of action is to introduce new legislation. Do you really think that someone is going to get 25 years for blocking traffic? Highly, be the law there or not, but the punishment will likely be more severe than it is now.

Oh, I see, so if certain punishments aren't enough of a deterrent, then we need to keep legislating stiffer and stiffer punishments until they do? WTF kind of monkey-assed reasoning is this? Think of every freaking law that gets broken. By that logic, should we need to make stiffer penalties for each and every single one, and subsequently continue to do so until NO ONE COMMITS A CRIME? Jeez, if this really needs to be elaborated further, you need some serious help.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: rahvin
I agree with Amused. I think I need a bath now.

I just took one...

It didn't help. :Q

 

[StageLeft]

And so the fury is flamed as the country works itself into a frenzy. Man, if an outside observer was to look at some of the reactions to 9/11 they'd think that it killed half the country and that 2/3 of people are terrorists and shopping malls and busses and bombings are occuring every hour.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused
People who chain themselves to businesses and/or block traffic to protest something that is not related to trespassing and traffic laws: Idiots who deserve prosecution.

Yes, but with laws already on the books, Amused. You probably know that better than I. This label of "Terrorism" is absolute BS.

edited: formatting

OK, one last time:

I do not support this bill.

It should have been clear enough when I called it "knee-jerk reactionism in the post you reference.

Got that?

One more for good measure:

I do not support this bill.

In case someone does not speak English:

No apoyo esta cuenta

Ich stütze nicht diese Rechnung

Non sostengo questa fattura

Eu não suporto esta conta

I can't make Japanese, Korean or Chinese symbols, so Asians are outta luck.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: Fausto1

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: zippy

Originally posted by: Amused
While I disagree with the knee-jerk reactionism of this bill, I must say something:

Protesters today have no idea what civil disobedience is. It's the act of breaking an unjust law, and forcing judicial review. It IS NOT the act of breaking just laws, and denying other individuals their civil rights to protest something completely unrelated to the law you are breaking and the rights you are violating.

Rosa Parks: Justifiable civil disobedience. She broke the Jim Crow laws because they were unjust. She did not break laws unrelated to the one she was protesting.

People who chain themselves to businesses and/or block traffic to protest something that is not related to trespassing and traffic laws: Idiots who deserve prosecution.

Agreed, prosecuted as terrorists? They may be stupid, but does stupidity warrant 25 years in prison?

Yes, it does. This is America. Love it or leave it.

Are you being sarcastic, or do you have a point I'm missing?

I thought I had a very clear point when I made the post. Either you support our country fully, or get the hell out. America doesn't need to have any tolerance for those who are not supporting the war. Heck, kick the draft back into gear and get those punk protestors put through some military training. Their attitude would change real quick.

Oh, I fully support the protesting measure. Living outside of D.C., that silly "tractor guy" created quite a mess. When "tractor guy" had the attention of the police agencies and the media, what would have stopped some terrorists from taking out a major portion of D.C.???? That's right. Protestors are a nuisance ... and they are getting in the way of protecting the peace. Sooner or later, protesters are going to create a good diversion that some terrorist group is going to take advantage of. Once that happens, your opinion will probably change real quickly.

I didn't know that this was the state of the US, i hope you guys can come to terms with the fact that not everyone agrees with everyone and that free speech is valued first and foremost some day...

Then you could actually have what you claim that your country stands for... I live in Sweden, if anyone were to infringe of our freedom like that, heh, impossible...

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused
People who chain themselves to businesses and/or block traffic to protest something that is not related to trespassing and traffic laws: Idiots who deserve prosecution.

Yes, but with laws already on the books, Amused. You probably know that better than I. This label of "Terrorism" is absolute BS.

edited: formatting

OK, one last time:

I do not support this bill.

It should have been clear enough when I called it "knee-jerk reactionism in the post you reference.

Got that?

One more for good measure:

I do not support this bill.

In case someone does not speak English:

No apoyo esta cuenta

Ich stütze nicht diese Rechnung

Non sostengo questa fattura

Eu não suporto esta conta

I can't make Japanese, Korean or Chinese symbols, so Asians are outta luck.

Just addin it in Swedish...

Jag stöder inte förslaget!

There you go, free of charge and all...

BTW, remember our bet, seems you lost...