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Prosecutor: Bible is 'fighting words'

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It's ironic that this behavior by gays goes largely unpunished:

In vivid contrast to the dignified non-violence which characterized the African American civil rights movement as led by Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, gay extremist attempts to ride the civil rights bandwagon have been anything but civil.

Recently, gay activists vandalized California State office buildings. Burned State flags and California's governor in effigy after his veto of a special gay advantage bill. And pelted the governor himself with garbage at a speaking engagement following his veto.

In 1989, gay "AIDS activists" invaded a Roman Catholic mass at New York City's St. Patrick's Cathedral, shouting obscenities and defiling Communion elements. A few participants in this blatant desecration incurred slight legal penalties.

On Saturday, November 16, 1991, "A group of AIDS demonstrators dressed in suits and ties infiltrated the Family Concerns Conference brunch Saturday at First Baptist Church of Atlanta, then peppered the diners with hundreds of condoms while chanting `Safer sex saves lives.' The demonstrators were removed by church security guards and police. Outside, 90 placard-waving protesters marched in front of the church at Peachtree and Fifth streets, chanting and waving at automobiles as drivers honked and waved. There were no arrests.

"The action was staged by the National Organization for Women, Atlanta Pro-Choice Action Committee, and ACTUP/Atlanta [a radical gay activist organization]. The groups oppose the conservative Christian group's stands against both abortion and high school sex education courses that provide information about the use of condoms to prevent AIDS transmission" ("AIDS activists crash church brunch," Atlanta Journal Constitution, Sun., Nov. 17, 1991, emphasis added).

"A catalogue to an AIDS art show, partly funded by the National Endowment for the Arts, reflects the general tone [of gay "arts" attacks against the Roman Catholic Church]: [New York's] Cardinal O'Connor is a `fat cannibal in skirts' and his cathedral is a `house of walking swastikas'... Savage mockery of Christianity is now a conventional part of the public gay culture. A ridiculous looking Jesus figure carrying a cross is always featured in the gay Halloween parade in New York..." ("The gay tide of Catholic-bashing," U.S. News and World Report, April, 1991, p. 15.)

The National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) has given generous grants to homophile "works of art" which blatantly blaspheme traditional religious and family values -- to the applause of liberal gay advantage supporters who would doubtless fight any suggestion of federal funding for religious art "tooth and claw."

Gay activists' behavior at non-violent, pro-life Operation Rescue protests has been notoriously violent and even obscene. The Los Angeles Times, October 6, 1991, reported:

"Members of ACT UP, the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power, spit on, kiss and stick needles into Operation Rescue members and then shout `Welcome to the world of AIDS,' claims Bill Soucie, a Glendale abortion foe. Some ACT UP members push and shove Operation Rescue members, while others drop their trousers and moon their opponents or lift T-shirts to expose their breasts, he said...
About the nudity, ACT UP member David Barton is quoted: "`Sure, it's militant behavior,' he said. `These people are so offensive to us, we do whatever we can to offend them.' Nudity is sometimes just a spontaneous action, said [ACT UP member Judy] Kristel, who exposed her breasts at [a] June 29 demonstration. Her action and that of three others who exposed themselves was videotaped and the tape given to El Monte police for possible prosecution."

It is surely a measure of gay activists' political power that no arrests were made and no charges were filed. Nor were charges filed or arrests made at San Francisco's 1990 and 1991 Gay and Lesbian Pride Parades, of which we have video footage depicting:
Public nudity, both male and female. Lewd and lascivious acts, including public fondling of genitalia and several acts of what appears to be public anal sex between homosexuals. Transvestism, "leather culture," sadomasochistic paraphernalia, open promotion of pedophilia and savage ridicule of religious objects and symbols. Clear evidence of police presence, plus footage of San Francisco's mayor, who rode in and endorsed these parades. San Francisco police authorities were contacted and asked why no arrests were made. Their explanations were as follows:

1. Police officers present "may not have seen indecent behavior or received formal complaints." 2. Police "may have seen such behavior," but primary responsibility on that date was to "reflect community standards and maintain crowd control." 3. Mayor Art Agnos endorsed and participated in the parade, and the police department had to assume that his sanction was on anything that took place. 4. "These people [gays present] have shown they will riot at the drop of a hat, and it was the primary responsibility of police officers to keep the peace, even at the possible cost of tolerating public indecencies." In Madison, Wisconsin, on Sunday, September 8, 1991: "About 100 ACT Up protesters charged the Capitol... defacing the hallway leading to the governor's office with food and stickers and staging a `die-in' in the rotunda. They were protesting what they call `criminal' state policies against prison inmates with AIDS... The protesters were met by Capitol police and security officers, who closed the governor's office and blocked the group's entry. The protesters then tossed sandwiches and towels toward the door, and left numerous ACT Up stickers on the walls that portray [Wisconsin's governor Tommy] Thompson as a public health menace because of the prison policies. Other protesters used some type of black marker to write on the marble floor..." ("AIDS protesters deface Capitol," The Capital Times, September 9, 1991).

No arrests were reported in relation to this incident.

Obviously, that gay extremists can indulge in this kind of license, while ordinary rules of law are suspended, reflects considerable political power -- power gay activists themselves boast of having achieved. As recently as 1987, a report issued by the Federal Elections Commission stated that "The Human Rights Campaign Fund" [HRCF], the national homosexual PAC, was at that time the "16th largest independent political action committee (PAC) in the nation" and "the 39th largest PAC overall." Considering that at the time, more than 4,500 PACS had registered with the FEC, this represents enormous political power. The HRCF's Executive Director, Robert Basile commented on this news: "We have clearly become a big-league PAC, which means the gay and lesbian community has increasing power in American politics... This means we have recognizable clout in the election and in the legislative process of this country... For better or for worse, politics in this country responds to money, and politicians now know they had better respond to our community" (The Dallas Voice, June 19, 1987).

During the 1986 elections, HRCF raised more than $1.4 million. This put it in the top 1% of PACS nationwide. HRCF funded candidates in 112 political races -- "an incredible political achievement," according to political experts. By fiscal year 1991-1992, the HRCF's budget had grown to nearly $4 million. Recently, the HRCF announced a 1992-1993 projected budget of over $5 million (The Washington Blade, May 8, 1992, "Activists from around the country descend on the Hill"). The HRCF and affiliated gay PACs spent nearly $3 million in just six months of 1993, in attempts to see the ban on gays in the military lifted ("No Quick Fix," Out, Dec./Jan. 1994, p. 90).

In addition to the HRCF, gay militants have established the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund (GLVF), a Washington, D.C.-based PAC aimed at funding local, openly gay candidates, with an eye to changing public perception of gays, especially in mid-to-small-size cities and towns. GLVF boasts current national membership support in excess of $550,000 (The Washington Post, "Gays Are Gaining Ground in Local Politics," May 23, 1993, p. A22).

Political scientist J. David Woodward comments:

"Gay, lesbian and bisexual interest groups are among the fastest-growing and best-financed lobbies in the country. In 1993 the top six gay groups raised more than $12.5 million for operating and political purposes. In 1987 the same six groups had combined budgets of only $3.2 million [though, as observed above, this sum already qualified gay militant political power as `big league']. The Human Rights Campaign Fund, the leading homosexual political action group, ranked in the top 50 of more than 4,700 Political Action committees on the 1992 Federal Election Commission report. Contributions to HRCF were up 136 percent over donations in the previous reporting cycle. This one group is said to have given $3.5 million to the Clinton campaign in the last presidential election, and HRCF contributed to 190 Senate and House candidates with an 85 percent success ratio. In close contests where the homosexual lobby chose to concentrate its efforts by contributing between $7,000 to $10,000, HRCF candidates won 21 out of 28 times.

"The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force boasts of having won `countless victories' for homosexuals. The homosexual groups draw on over 150,000 regular donors and have a combined mailing list of about half a million. There are over 90 nationally based homosexual organizations, including professional subunits in the academic disciplines of sociology, psychology, and political science. On college campuses gay and lesbian studies programs are expanding, and `Gay Pride' events are a regular part of the academic calendar."(World Magazine, Oct. 30, 1993, reported in The Journal, Jan. 1994, pp. 6,7.)
10 Percent, a gay magazine, quotes current HRCF Executive Director Tim McFeeley as follows: "`By conservative estimates, the [gay] people who went to [Washington] D.C. [for the 1993 March on Washington] spent $100 million. That's the kind of money our community spends and [our political] organizations so desperately need'" ("Capital Gains," Fall 1993, p. 76). The Washington, D.C., Convention and Visitors Association's official estimate was "that the event brought more money to the capital -- $177 million -- than any other single event they'd tracked. Bill Clinton's inauguration, by contrast, brought in just $65 million" (Out, op. cit., p. 91, emphasis added).
Time magazine has commented: "Because [homosexuals] are highly mobilized and tend to have more discretionary income, gays have an impact on elections that is disproportionate to their number." Highlighting gay militants' sizeable donation to the Clinton presidential campaign, Time adds: "This power has even greater effect on the congressional level" ("The Shrinking Ten Percent," April 26, 1993, p. 29).

All this bespeaks anything but political powerlessness.

Link
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
If you watch the video, you'll see that the group is moving away from the stage and simply asking why those who are obstructing them in violation of Pennsylvania law weren't being addressed.

and if you watch the video, you can see that they were asked to leave the event, and they refused. you make it sound like they were cooperating with police, and it is obvious they were not.

So you think that praying, singing, and reading the Bible in a public area is grounds for imprisonment?

you make it sound like they were just your average church goers having a nice picnic or something. this guy was using a bullhorn to scream the bible out at people.

what i find surprising is your willingful ignorance of what is going on in the video. i thought you were smarter than this, riprorin.
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: BarneyFife
I give up. Its like talking to a wall.
It's the Martyr Syndrome Barney. The Fundies seem to thrive on it.

tell me about it... never mind the fact that the vast majority of public officials, politicians, judges are christian... never mind the fact that our frickin' president is a fundie... they still somehow think that there is some kind of nation-wide conspiracy to kill christianity. :roll:
 
How many different posters have to bold the same lines from the article Rip posted before he and Alchy decide to acknowledge it? WAtch the video and read the damn article and it paints a clearer picture of the entire events. Tunnel vision much? Hey, keep bleating on with that righteous indigation.
 
The real question here is why he feels so much animosity towards gays, which of course he will deny, but obviously considering his repeated outrage at the idea that these hostile nutjobs were treated with less respect in his mind, than the gay people. Obviously he posesses. I mean really, just go about your own business if you are so incapable of accepting other people in this world, than just ignore it if thats the best you are capable of. Rather than ranting about it and being a passive-aggressive bigot. And by the way, Jesus told us to love one another as he loves ALL of us. Probably the most powerful message he gave us. Jesus is our intecessor with God for forgiveness and salvation. The New Testament as I said before is the basis of the Christian faith. The Old Testament in case you don't know it, is the original covenant, the New Testament is just that, a new covenant. So were these Jews out there protesting .. or Christians ?
 
Yes, yes, it's a vast conspiracy against Christians. And you might even have some kind of free speech point, if it wasn't plainly obvious you're not in favor of free speech at all, just free speech for your "side". Yeah, I know you didn't say that. You don't have to. I have NEVER seen Rip, or any of you guys defending these idiots, EVER say anything about free speech for anyone you disagree with. Even reading what you posted in this thread, it's pretty clear you aren't interested in free speech as an idea so much as you are offended that you feel your side didn't get their say.

To put this in perspective...suppose I find a church event on public property and go read some pro-gay literature through a bullhorn. Would you support my right to do that, even though I'm almost certainly inciting violence? Or is it just because these guys are Christians. Don't answer, because frankly I don't care. But maybe you'll actually engage that brain God gave you, hmm?
 
Activist Larry Kramer is not nice
Kramer urges KSG students to ACT UP: 'Confront the system. Take no prisoners.'
By Beth Potier
Harvard News Office

Larry Kramer, writer and AIDS activist, doesn't believe leadership can be taught. "We really made it up every day as we went along," he said of his years with ACT UP, the international AIDS advocacy and protest organization he founded. "If I were to teach anything here it would be how to confront the system, not work within it. Hit it over the head with a bat and take no prisoners."

Such bold, iconoclastic statements, while not surprising to anyone familiar with Kramer's activism, struck an ironic chord at his Sept. 30 talk, which was sponsored by the Center for Public Leadership at the Kennedy School of Government (KSG). Yet even as he dismissed both "leadership" and "government" as ineffectual avenues for change, Kramer charmed the standing-room-only audience at the Charles Hotel with his quiet wit and fearless outspokenness.

Kramer was an accidental leader, thrown into action in the earliest days of the AIDS epidemic when his friends began getting infected. "I was just a New York fagg0t like everyone else who was gay then," he said. "I didn't march in Pride. We used to be at Fire Island and make fun of all that." An accomplished playwright, screenwriter, novelist, and journalist, Kramer described himself as an essentially shy person who "gets nervous when I'm away from my computer." He won an Obie Award for his 1993 play "The Destiny of Me," which was also a runner-up for the Pulitzer Prize, and his screenplay for the film "Women in Love" (1969) was nominated for an Academy Award.

Motivated by fear, as AIDS threatened the lives of his friends, and fueled by anger at government and policy inaction against the epidemic, Kramer co-founded Gay Men's Health Crisis, the first and world's largest service provider to people with AIDS, in 1981. Frustrated by that organization's nonconfrontational nature, he launched the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power - ACT UP - in 1987, leading a grassroots effort to accelerate the approval process for drugs to treat AIDS. At its height from the late-1980s to the mid-1990s, ACT UP boasted 140 chapters nationwide.

Despite his ongoing success as an activist, Kramer had few traditional leadership tips to share. "I'm a very instinctive person, and prickly," said Kramer in the easygoing discussion with Jonathan Katz, executive coordinator of the Larry Kramer Initiative for Lesbian and Gay Studies at Yale University. "Everything I said is out of my own passion."

Casually distinctive in bib overalls and a cardigan sweater, Kramer encouraged the audience of students and faculty from Harvard College, the KSG, and other graduate schools to find their passion in anger, focus their activism, and circumvent traditional leadership counsel for confrontational techniques. Coalition building, he said, is "very nice" but difficult to achieve in the real world. "People in groups don't behave well, and there's nothing you can do about it," he said.

Still, Kramer and ACT UP tempered their guerilla-style actions with high-level negotiations, often playing both good cop and bad cop to great success. "You have to be the enemy and get behind enemy lines," he said. "They've got to be frightened of you."

Similarly, he and fellow activists educated themselves on the considerable science and politics of drugs and drug approvals. "We knew what we were talking about. We knew more about the science and medicine of AIDS than the scientists and doctors did," he said.

ACT UP is now a much smaller organization than it was 10 years ago, and Kramer sees confrontational activism in general on the decline. He's frustrated, he said, by complacency about AIDS in this country.

"It's heartbreaking to see infections on the rise again in the gay world when people know better now," he said. "It's like a slap in the face to everyone who died. We didn't fight like hell to get you the medicine so that you could go out and get infected."

To a KSG student who asked how to address the overwhelming AIDS epidemic in her native Kenya, Kramer delivered a response he warned she wouldn't like.

"There's remarkably little activism of a confrontational nature in these countries," he said of Africa. "Your people have to be made to shove it in their faces. Tie up governments, tie up industry, tie up traffic. Pour fake blood in department stores."

Kramer's brand of activism trades politeness and diplomatic savvy - qualities arguably embraced by many in the audience - for shock value and confrontation.

"You do not get more with honey than with vinegar. You get it by being harsh and demanding and in-your-face - constantly," he said. "We're all anxious to have everyone love us. It's difficult to maintain that if you have strong opinions."

Link

To the gay activists, this kind of behavior is okay, but pray, sing songs, and read Bible verses and you're looking at 47 years in prison.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Activist Larry Kramer is not nice
Kramer urges KSG students to ACT UP: 'Confront the system. Take no prisoners.'
By Beth Potier
Harvard News Office

Larry Kramer, writer and AIDS activist, doesn't believe leadership can be taught. "We really made it up every day as we went along," he said of his years with ACT UP, the international AIDS advocacy and protest organization he founded. "If I were to teach anything here it would be how to confront the system, not work within it. Hit it over the head with a bat and take no prisoners."

Such bold, iconoclastic statements, while not surprising to anyone familiar with Kramer's activism, struck an ironic chord at his Sept. 30 talk, which was sponsored by the Center for Public Leadership at the Kennedy School of Government (KSG). Yet even as he dismissed both "leadership" and "government" as ineffectual avenues for change, Kramer charmed the standing-room-only audience at the Charles Hotel with his quiet wit and fearless outspokenness.

Kramer was an accidental leader, thrown into action in the earliest days of the AIDS epidemic when his friends began getting infected. "I was just a New York fagg0t like everyone else who was gay then," he said. "I didn't march in Pride. We used to be at Fire Island and make fun of all that." An accomplished playwright, screenwriter, novelist, and journalist, Kramer described himself as an essentially shy person who "gets nervous when I'm away from my computer." He won an Obie Award for his 1993 play "The Destiny of Me," which was also a runner-up for the Pulitzer Prize, and his screenplay for the film "Women in Love" (1969) was nominated for an Academy Award.

Motivated by fear, as AIDS threatened the lives of his friends, and fueled by anger at government and policy inaction against the epidemic, Kramer co-founded Gay Men's Health Crisis, the first and world's largest service provider to people with AIDS, in 1981. Frustrated by that organization's nonconfrontational nature, he launched the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power - ACT UP - in 1987, leading a grassroots effort to accelerate the approval process for drugs to treat AIDS. At its height from the late-1980s to the mid-1990s, ACT UP boasted 140 chapters nationwide.

Despite his ongoing success as an activist, Kramer had few traditional leadership tips to share. "I'm a very instinctive person, and prickly," said Kramer in the easygoing discussion with Jonathan Katz, executive coordinator of the Larry Kramer Initiative for Lesbian and Gay Studies at Yale University. "Everything I said is out of my own passion."

Casually distinctive in bib overalls and a cardigan sweater, Kramer encouraged the audience of students and faculty from Harvard College, the KSG, and other graduate schools to find their passion in anger, focus their activism, and circumvent traditional leadership counsel for confrontational techniques. Coalition building, he said, is "very nice" but difficult to achieve in the real world. "People in groups don't behave well, and there's nothing you can do about it," he said.

Still, Kramer and ACT UP tempered their guerilla-style actions with high-level negotiations, often playing both good cop and bad cop to great success. "You have to be the enemy and get behind enemy lines," he said. "They've got to be frightened of you."

Similarly, he and fellow activists educated themselves on the considerable science and politics of drugs and drug approvals. "We knew what we were talking about. We knew more about the science and medicine of AIDS than the scientists and doctors did," he said.

ACT UP is now a much smaller organization than it was 10 years ago, and Kramer sees confrontational activism in general on the decline. He's frustrated, he said, by complacency about AIDS in this country.

"It's heartbreaking to see infections on the rise again in the gay world when people know better now," he said. "It's like a slap in the face to everyone who died. We didn't fight like hell to get you the medicine so that you could go out and get infected."

To a KSG student who asked how to address the overwhelming AIDS epidemic in her native Kenya, Kramer delivered a response he warned she wouldn't like.

"There's remarkably little activism of a confrontational nature in these countries," he said of Africa. "Your people have to be made to shove it in their faces. Tie up governments, tie up industry, tie up traffic. Pour fake blood in department stores."

Kramer's brand of activism trades politeness and diplomatic savvy - qualities arguably embraced by many in the audience - for shock value and confrontation.

"You do not get more with honey than with vinegar. You get it by being harsh and demanding and in-your-face - constantly," he said. "We're all anxious to have everyone love us. It's difficult to maintain that if you have strong opinions."

Link

To the gay activists, this kind of behavior is okay, but pray, sing songs, and read Bible verses and you're looking at 47 years in prison.

blind. :roll:

I repeat: And by the way, Jesus told us to love one another as he loves ALL of us. Probably the most powerful message he gave us. Jesus is our intecessor with God for forgiveness and salvation. The New Testament as I said before is the basis of the Christian faith. The Old Testament in case you don't know it, is the original covenant, the New Testament is just that, a new covenant. So were these Jews out there protesting .. or Christians ?


but you just ignore. ignorance=bliss ?
 
I'm not a gay activist, but no, its NOT ok to use these tactics, whoever you are. As the article points out, Kramer is not a maintream activist.

From the article:

To a KSG student who asked how to address the overwhelming AIDS epidemic in her native Kenya, Kramer delivered a response he warned she wouldn't like.

"There's remarkably little activism of a confrontational nature in these countries," he said of Africa. "Your people have to be made to shove it in their faces. Tie up governments, tie up industry, tie up traffic. Pour fake blood in department stores."

Rip, the reason you have no credibility here is because you consistently misrepresent the meaning of the articles you post and then make arguments with no logical reasoning.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
To the gay activists, this kind of behavior is okay, but pray, sing songs, and read Bible verses and you're looking at 47 years in prison.
 
RealityTime.. He won't respond with a straight answer. He'll either post another poll, bible verse, or ask you a question. I repeatedly tried to tell him in another thread that the crime that occured wasn't in the video and he kept on telling me to watch the video. He's in denial. - Barney Fife

If they committed a crime, why weren't they arrested then and there as it happened?

Stii won't watch the video, will you?
 
Like the news articles from other sites said, the video doesn't show everything that happened. You are just as guilty as those who condemn our troops for alleged Iraq attrocities based on a couple seconds of tape.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Stii won't watch the video, will you?

 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Activist Larry Kramer is not nice
Kramer urges KSG students to ACT UP: 'Confront the system. Take no prisoners.'
By Beth Potier
Harvard News Office

Larry Kramer, writer and AIDS activist, doesn't believe leadership can be taught. "We really made it up every day as we went along," he said of his years with ACT UP, the international AIDS advocacy and protest organization he founded. "If I were to teach anything here it would be how to confront the system, not work within it. Hit it over the head with a bat and take no prisoners."

...

Link

To the gay activists, this kind of behavior is okay, but pray, sing songs, and read Bible verses and you're looking at 47 years in prison.

Larry Kramer is one of the more extreme, 'over the top' activists in the gay community. Lots of gay people think he is a bit crazy, and make fun of him, or criticize his methods. So you posting about Larry Kramer, as if all gay people or all "gay activists" support his methods, is stupid. If I wanted to be as sleazy and disingenuous as you, I could post about anti-choice activists shooting doctors who perform abortions, or Fred Phelps "celebrating" the death of Matthew Shepard by picketing at his funeral, and hint that such behavior was representative of all xians who oppose the right to choose.

 
I don't know who if anyone I represent in saying this, but I am 100% behind the right of the christians to protest the gays. I mean it is as much their right as it is the right of the KKK to have parades or concerned citizen to give a speech about what he thinks sucks about the government. But, there are some lines that can be crossed, I personally think they are decent lines. One of said lines is fighting words. If they crossed a line, they went to far and deserved to be arrested, if they didn't then good great grand wonderful. Personally I think they should have been able to sit out there and shout bible verses or say "God said adam and eve, not adam and steve" or whatever the hell derogatory remarks they wanted all day. But since we all know that video doesn't show everything, and we all know there are lines that can be crossed, I'm just saying its possible they crossed it. Fortunately their jury will decide if they did or not, and until then all of these are merely allegations.

I think my point is, I support the freedom of speech in all facets, I also support the freedom not to listen. I would fight for my worst enemy to be able to talk about things that I hated, I may wish he wouldn't and never go see him do so, but if it was within my power I would make sure he had the right to do it.
 
Rip wont't respond to reasonable posts like this. He is simply unable to make logical arguments.

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Larry Kramer is one of the more extreme, 'over the top' activists in the gay community. Lots of gay people think he is a bit crazy, and make fun of him, or criticize his methods. So you posting about Larry Kramer, as if all gay people or all "gay activists" support his methods, is stupid. If I wanted to be as sleazy and disingenuous as you, I could post about anti-choice activists shooting doctors who perform abortions, or Fred Phelps "celebrating" the death of Matthew Shepard by picketing at his funeral, and hint that such behavior was representative of all xians who oppose the right to choose.

 
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