proposed system build - wait?

[waldoh]

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Primary use: gaming
Secondary use: multimedia/web design/getting into audiophile territory

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

$1500 (not including case/os)

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

USA

4. IF you're buying parts OUTSIDE the US, please post a link to the vendor you'll be buying from.
We can't be expected to scour the internet on your behalf, chasing down deals in your specific country... Again, help us, help YOU.

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

Intel - No preference on ATI vs nVidia

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

Current PC:
Intel i7 950 w/ CM Hyper212
EVGA 460GTX
Crucial RealSSD c300 128gb SATA 3 MLC
6gb Corsair Dominator DDR3-1600
ASUS Rampage 3 Gene LGA 1366
CM Storm Sniper Black Edition
OCZ GameXStream 600W (from previous PC, so 6 yrs old)

I plan to re-use the case, and maybe the hard drive.


7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

I would like to OC for the first time (this will be my 3rd build). The system needs to run as cool as possible since the hotter months are coming up.

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?

Currently Samsung 2233rz 120hz.
In the future I would like to purchase a Asus VG248QE 144hz for gaming and a 27-30 inch for multimedia/work.

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Note that it is usually not cost or time effective to choose your build more than a month before you actually plan to be using it.

1-3 Months

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?

No


------------------------------------------------

Build:
Intel i7 3770k $330
Corsair H80i $90
Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600 $57x2= $114
Samsung 840 Pro 256gb $250
Creative Sound Blaster ZxR $250

Mobo: ?
GPU: ?

I am lost on what Mobo to choose for this build and also what GPU will not bottleneck the system without spending $1k on it.

Also will the ivy bridge provide enough of a performance boost to validate the upgrade from my current system?

Should I wait for Haswell to do the CPU/Mobo upgrade and buy the other components first?

 

[Sleepingforest]

Well, you say you won't have the money for this (or whatever) for 1-3 months. Desktop Haswell releases in early June, last I heard, which is 3 months from now. You might as well just wait for June to build--no sense in buying only a month or two before the new processor comes out.

This is only true if Haswell is roughly at price parity with Ivy Bridge though. I'm hoping that Sandy i5-2500K will be $180-190, Ivy Bridge i5-3570K will sit around $200-210 (where Sandy Bridge sits now), and Haswell i5-4670K will be $215-230.

You can settle for a lower priced sound card like the XFi Titanium HD even for an audiophile setup--you'd be better off spending the extra money on headphones or speakers.

You should try to get your RAM in 2x8GB sticks since it'll leave more room for an expansion. It is also probably cheaper. Furthermore, unless you frequently use Photoshop or a program known to benefit from more than 4 cores, the i5-3570K is a better choice for CPU (most programs don't use that many cores/threads).

Finally, the Noctua D14 outperforms the H80i, and frequently for less money. If you want to water cool, go ALL THE WAY. ($90 for basic 240mm radiator, $10-30 for fans, CPU block for $40, and tubing/barbs/zip ties for $20 or so. Distilled water for a couple bucks. A total of $160-180).

 

[Turbonium]

As mentioned, if you don't plan on building for up to three months or so, definitely wait for Haswell.

 

[Torn Mind]

Your GPU needs upgrading first. At the current moment, the best single GPU cards performance-wise are the GTX 680 and Radeon HD 7970. The GTX 680 is more expensive and probably not worth it over the 7970 or GTX 670.

 

[waldoh]

Assuming I wait for Haswell, I might go ahead and upgrade my current power supply, sound card, monitor/speakers.

Would this be a mistake? Should I just 100% new build for Haswell?

 

[Sleepingforest]

I don't see any PSUs, sound cards, or peripherals in the pipeline, so you should be fine.

 

[Termie]

Your CPU still has enough life left in it to get you to Haswell, which arrives on June 2nd. If you had a less powerful CPU, Ivy Bridge would make sense, but for your purposes, there is no rush.

I'd pick up an HD7950 now - there are several on sale at Newegg. There won't be anything new by June, and the 7970/680 have recently gone up in price.

You could get by on your PSU for now - just don't overclock the GPU much, because the PSU isn't high-quality. When it comes time to build, get a 550-650w unit from Corsair, Seasonic, or Antec.

 

[waldoh]

I bought the Corsair AX860i because it was a good deal, 10% off + $20 rebate, ends up being $187.

Is this PSU semi-future proof to be able to handle a possible OC Haswell + some form of SLI/Crossfire setup? or should I return it and invest in a 1000-1200w platinum certified?

 

[Torn Mind]

Power consumption is decreasing every GPU generation these days. A quality 750 watt PSU should serve a dual Crossfire setup just fine. Dual Crossfire does have microstutter issues though. Tri-Crossfire doesn't seem to be badly affected, but it's a terribly expensive investment, requiring an really high end motherboard and three expensive GPUs.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I bought the Corsair AX860i because it was a good deal, 10% off + $20 rebate, ends up being $187.

Is this PSU semi-future proof to be able to handle a possible OC Haswell + some form of SLI/Crossfire setup? or should I return it and invest in a 1000-1200w platinum certified?

I would have much rather had a Corsair CX750 which is merely $80 after a $10 MIR. The reason: 80 Plus ratings are a guarantee of efficiency, not quality. If you look at the typical load of a computer during gaming (150W for a single card, my card pulled at most 180W from the wall in Borderlands 2 at 1080p, 60 frames per second, and all the effects plus 16x AA), you'll see that the 860i is 91.24% efficient, and the CX750 is 83% efficient (based on a smaller model). The difference between them at load is a mere 0.0163 Kw. At 12 cents per KwH, you'd need to run the computer for just more than 6126 hours, which amounts to 255.3 days without pause, to recoup the increase in PSU cost. You can think of it as gaming for two hours every day for 8 years.

Now, the AX860i does have somewhat better components. However, you can get a Seasonic M12II 750W unit 80 Plus Bronze for a mere $100--Seasonic is pretty much the best PSU manufacturer. If you believe CFX and SLI to be a bad use of money (like I do), you can settle for a 500W unit like the Seasonic made, Antec branded, Earthwatts 500W for $61.17.

CFX and SLI as a way to "upgrade" is wasteful for three reasons:

• It takes up way too much electricity.
• You can get very close to the same graphical power by upgrading to the next generation instead and selling the old card.
• It heats up your case, which reduces longevity and puts strain on the coolers and components.
• It requires a more expensive PSU.
• It doesn't even always work.

Okay, that was more than three reasons. But it's a bad idea.

 

[Termie]

I'm not quite as pessimistic about your PSU choice (or CFX/SLI) as SleepingForest, but I will say the PSU is complete overkill for yours or just about anyone's needs. That means you paid more than you needed to, regardless of the sale price.

That said, it's a fabulous PSU, as found here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/AX860i/

It will serve you for a long time to come.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I wouldn't say I'm pessimistic--I'm just saying that it'll take longer than the warranty period (7 years) even with consistent usage to make up the cost delta.

 

[mfenn]

I bought the Corsair AX860i because it was a good deal, 10% off + $20 rebate, ends up being $187.

Is this PSU semi-future proof to be able to handle a possible OC Haswell + some form of SLI/Crossfire setup? or should I return it and invest in a 1000-1200w platinum certified?

I think you should return it, but not for the reason that you expect. While you may have gotten a discount on the AX860i, that does NOT make it a good deal. At the end of the day, you are paying $187 for a power supply that is way overkill for your needs.

You can get what you want (good components, possible upgrade path) with a $70 AP Rosewill Hive 750W.

 

[Termie]

I'll just add one more thing - since you have this thread going, you might as well bounce your ideas off of us before jumping on deals, so we can tell you more about what you're buying and how it will work for you.

I just realized you asked if you should return the 860w unit and buy a 1200w unit. I have to say that I think you may have some misinformation about the power needs of the system you're contemplating. Even with dual video cards, you'll need at most 650w.

 

[waldoh]

So I ended up keeping the 860w, maybe in the future I will SLI/Crossfire + OC.

Now I am looking at GPUs.

I have it narrowed down to:

ASUS GTX670 Top DC2 ($410 newegg)
Sapphire Vapor-X HD 7950 ($320 newegg)
ASUS HD 7950 DC2 ($340 newegg)

580/7970/7970ghz are out of my price range (I also do not like to buy top of the line for GPUs)

The 7950s come with much better (to me) games, the Geforce deal is lame.
The 7950s have a cost savings, but its not that huge to me.

Correct me if I am wrong here:
nVidia > ATI - drivers (care a lot)
ATI > nVidia - value per performance (care a little)
nVidia > ATI - temps/power consumption (dont really care)

What should I do?


I plan to play games at 1080p on a 120/144hz monitor. I play FPS but occasionally will play WoW, SC2, LoL.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I wouldn't say that Nvidia actually has better drivers. They are less error prone in SLI, if it matters, but drivers are primarily there to allow the GPU to perform better. There is no "driver quality" so much as performance--and in that, AMD is winning.

Also, you can get a 7970 for $380 for sure (less than the GTX 670 DCII TOP). It'll perform the best out of any card you listed--though the Asus 670 is the second place card.

 

[waldoh]

I wouldn't say that Nvidia actually has better drivers. They are less error prone in SLI, if it matters, but drivers are primarily there to allow the GPU to perform better. There is no "driver quality" so much as performance--and in that, AMD is winning.

Also, you can get a 7970 for $380 for sure (less than the GTX 670 DCII TOP). It'll perform the best out of any card you listed--though the Asus 670 is the second place card.

I will look into the less expensive 7970s.

On a total other note, my original plan was to re-use my cm storm sniper black edition case which is very capable but my friend is giving me a good deal on his used raven 01 case with the vertical mobo orientation.

Would I want a blower style for the raven 01?

 

[Sleepingforest]

You pretty much never want a blower card. Their design means air must travel further and more turbulently, so it's less effective. Plus the smaller fan is whinier and thus more annoying at the same Db. It's more about good airflow and cable management, as seen here.

 

[waldoh]

Small update - decided to throw the budget out the window and spend a little more on this build.

So far I have:

Corsair AX860i
Creative Sound Blaster ZxR
Raven 01

Waiting for:

4770k
1150 Mobo (pref Asus)


Should I wait to buy RAM?

I'm considering upgrading the GPU before Haswell.

SLI Titans are shiny and new but I think my wallet might cry and more importantly I would cry if the 780gtx gets released (soon?) and comes close in performance for half the price.

Looking at the 7970 or the 680. I would only go with the 680 for EVGA step up possibility. Otherwise it's going to be a 2 slot 7970.

Any opinions on this matter would be appreciated.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Whoa! For a single GPU, or even 2 GPUs, 860W is overkill. 550W is appropriate for any single GPU and 750-800 is enough for SLI/CFX. The 7970 GHz edition already comes close to the Titan for less than half the price ($450, usually). RAM is only getting more expensive, so buy some sooner rather than later. Asus motherboards are usually overpriced for the features you get--and why are you waiting for Haswell? It does't offer much for a desktop user, and the initial rollout will have USB 3.0 problems.

On the sound side: do you have the speakers/headphones/music file quality to justify getting a soundcard? do you have the PCIe lanes to spare? Would you a USB DAC/amp like the Fiio E10? If the answer to the first two questions is yes, but you don't want an external DAC/amp: Creative doesn't make very good soundcards (only a few gems left, like the Titanium HD) anymore--look into the Asus Xonar DG or DX for gaming.

 

[waldoh]

Whoa! For a single GPU, or even 2 GPUs, 860W is overkill. 550W is appropriate for any single GPU and 750-800 is enough for SLI/CFX. The 7970 GHz edition already comes close to the Titan for less than half the price ($450, usually). RAM is only getting more expensive, so buy some sooner rather than later. Asus motherboards are usually overpriced for the features you get--and why are you waiting for Haswell? It does't offer much for a desktop user, and the initial rollout will have USB 3.0 problems.

On the sound side: do you have the speakers/headphones/music file quality to justify getting a soundcard? do you have the PCIe lanes to spare? Would you a USB DAC/amp like the Fiio E10? If the answer to the first two questions is yes, but you don't want an external DAC/amp: Creative doesn't make very good soundcards (only a few gems left, like the Titanium HD) anymore--look into the Asus Xonar DG or DX for gaming.

I plan to (attempt to) OC the CPU and run SLI (in the future), also the PSU was bought awhile ago.

This might be incredibly stupid but the only reasons I am waiting for Haswell is, I would rather buy at the start of a socket rather than the end and I am hoping I will not have to de-lid Haswell to OC it.


I have a pair of Sennheiser HD600 and most of my music is ripped from CD's or at the bare minimum off of Spotify. From what I understand the main negative of Creative cards are he drivers but the ZxR has improved upon that and uses fairly high quality components.


Seems like the obvious choice is the 7970. I like those Titans for SLI performance (especially because they don't stutter) but I don't think I could swallow $2000 when 2x 780 gtx will probably compare.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Your reasoning isn't stupid, but it is a little foolish. Yes, Haswell is "newer." But it doesn't offer any new features for desktop users with a dedicated graphics card (and in fact may make USB 3.0 malfunction) and Ivy Bridge overclocks perfectly well up to 4.5 or so on air without delidding (plus, overclocking voids your warranty already!)

I'd recommend a USB DAC/amp simply because it won't suffer from interference from the motherboard and other cards, and it will leave more PCIe lanes open for SLI later (since you seem to want to do that). A Fiio E10 is $75 off Amazon and will perform just as well, if not better.