proper Socket 939 Heat sink Fan removal

[ComputerWizKid]

So how do I prevent this from happening again in the future? I tried to remove the stock HSF (I used the Stock Thermal Interface Material or T.I.M. as AMD Calls it) unit from my 3500+ because I sold the mother board to a person on the forums and when I went to remove the HSF the CPU came off with it and a pin was bent (I tried unsuccessfully to straighten it out but I just ended up bending more pins and two pins broke off) So I now need an new CPU for my main computer (Holiday time so I might get one for the holidays) I'm typing on my HTPC but I really want to put this CPU in my main box but I don't want to ruin another CPU or have it stick to the bottom of the HSF on this CPU I used AS5 as I bought it used and the AMD T.I.M was already used and you can't reuse those says AMD
Thanks
RIP AMD Athlon 64 3500+ may you have a proper funeral and be made into my key chain

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: ComputerWizKid
So how do I prevent this from happening again in the future? I tried to remove the stock HSF (I used the Stock Thermal Interface Material or T.I.M. as AMD Calls it) unit from my 3500+ because I sold the mother board to a person on the forums and when I went to remove the HSF the CPU came off with it and a pin was bent (I tried unsuccessfully to straighten it out but I just ended up bending more pins and two pins broke off) So I now need an new CPU for my main computer (Holiday time so I might get one for the holidays) I'm typing on my HTPC but I really want to put this CPU in my main box but I don't want to ruin another CPU or have it stick to the bottom of the HSF on this CPU I used AS5 as I bought it used and the AMD T.I.M was already used and you can't reuse those says AMD
Thanks
RIP AMD Athlon 64 3500+ may you have a proper funeral and be made into my key chain

If it Was a Retail Box Processor....within the 3 year warranty AMD will RMA it..... they are responsible for the poor design, and I have RMA'd a few....

Call Their Tech Support and they will stand behind it....

 

[ComputerWizKid]

yeah it was a retail box processor

 

[carl0ski]

after rmoving the clip lock on each side

twist the heat sink back and forth for a little while to loosen the paste as much as possible
(you want be able to tur much due to the retainer)

continue lightly twisting while lifting

 

[John]

Originally posted by: Mr Fox
If it Was a Retail Box Processor....within the 3 year warranty AMD will RMA it..... they are responsible for the poor design, and I have RMA'd a few....

Call Their Tech Support and they will stand behind it....

Mr Fox, AMD doesn't cover negligence. In this case the OP is at fault and it's clearly not a manufacturing defect. In the future please don't recommend that people defraud a company.

ComputerWizKid, good luck on explaining the broken pins and how AMD's poor design caused them to break off after they were wiggled back and forth. Chalk it up as a learning experience. I've yanked my fair share of AMD and Intel cpu's out of the socket.

 

[Jschmuck2]

John is kind of an ass.

 

[lxskllr]

To answer the question though, you want to twist the heatsink first without pulling up. Just a bit side to side to break adhesion, then try to lift it. Also, your cpu may not be dead. All of the pins aren't essential for operation. If you got lucky the ones you broke off weren't that important. If any of the other pins are still bent you'll want run a credit card or something like that between the rows to straighten them out. If the pins are bent too far to get a card through. First bend them up slightly with a knife. Not too much though. All you're trying to do is make enough room for the credit card.

Good luck, it may be your lucky day

Edit: Doh!! I totally missed carl0ski's post. What he said

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
John is kind of an ass.

For not supporting RMA fraud?

Sorry, but ComputerWizKid waited to ask how to safely remove a HSF until after he ruined the CPU.

If ComputerWizKid explains exactly what happened and AMD decides to help him out, then AMD is being a great company but they're not obligated to do so by their warranty.

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: John

Originally posted by: Mr Fox
If it Was a Retail Box Processor....within the 3 year warranty AMD will RMA it..... they are responsible for the poor design, and I have RMA'd a few....

Call Their Tech Support and they will stand behind it....

Mr Fox, AMD doesn't cover negligence. In this case the OP is at fault and it's clearly not a manufacturing defect. In the future please don't recommend that people defraud a company.

ComputerWizKid, good luck on explaining the broken pins and how AMD's poor design caused them to break off after they were wiggled back and forth. Chalk it up as a learning experience. I've yanked my fair share of AMD and Intel cpu's out of the socket.

With all due respect.... AMD will stand behind it as they have many heatsink and fans that leave you no room to twist the Heatsink and fan and get the Thermal Material to Release...

It is that aspect that they are aware of as I have personally returned 3 - 4 of them that have had this issue.... AMD wants you Business and Understands the issue exists....

It is a design and Manufacturing issue that they did not properly control Dimensional Tolerances at the Heatsink Suppliers, and some were on the High End in Length Overall.... This Creates a Stack-up Dimensional issue with not allowing the heatsink to be twisted properly, an almost interference fit with the Heatsink Tray.


AMD makes the Final Decisions on something such as this? Not John the Forum Whore?

Please let them make that decision? and keep your Ethical Crapola to yourself?

OP when you call AMD they will want the Lot Number that is ink stamped on the side HSF... they will use that data in the RMA approval process...

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
John is kind of an ass.

Really ?? I never noticed !!

 

[Budman]

Originally posted by: carl0ski
after rmoving the clip lock on each side

twist the heat sink back and forth for a little while to loosen the paste as much as possible
(you want be able to tur much due to the retainer)

continue lightly twisting while lifting

that's the proper way to do it, done it myself a few times and this works perfectly every time.

 

[Geomagick]

I have always found that having the CPU nice and warm helps alot when removing a HS.

As for bent pins, if in doubt don't try and bend it back, they are very fragile and it is very easy to do more harm than good.
However if you do want to bend them back I would recommend the following tools.
A razor sharp knife, I find the one on a leatherman tool to be ideal, and an automatic pencil I use a 0.5mm one.
You will also want a very good light source, a halogen desk lamp is good for this and if your sight isn't perfect then a magnifying glass is also useful.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Originally posted by: George Powell
I have always found that having the CPU nice and warm helps alot when removing a HS.

As for bent pins, if in doubt don't try and bend it back, they are very fragile and it is very easy to do more harm than good.
However if you do want to bend them back I would recommend the following tools.
A razor sharp knife, I find the one on a leatherman tool to be ideal, and an automatic pencil I use a 0.5mm one.
You will also want a very good light source, a halogen desk lamp is good for this and if your sight isn't perfect then a magnifying glass is also useful.

Pre-heat by running a stress test, use a hair dryer or better yet, a heat gun.
If the hair dryer/heat gun are used, make a cardboard dam around the HS to contain the heat and keep it off other componets, like caps.

If AMD saves the day, please let us know. If not, http://www.motherboardrepair.com/ will replace 5 CPU pins for $35+shipping. The guy IS good!
Most that straighten thier own pins end up with a CPU that does not install into it's socket smoothly. This is a non-issue but do be aware of it. If you get the $35 re-pinning it will install as if new.

Note: John is one of THE most helpful members on this board.....PERIOD!

Peace,

...Galvanized

 

[ComputerWizKid]

AMD Honored my RMA the guy on the phone was very nice and said in the future NEVER to pull straight up move side to side to brake the seal of the thermal compound and once it's broken then pull up

 

[SparkyJJO]

I guess I'm lucky, never pulled a CPU out of the socket yet....

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: ComputerWizKid
AMD Honored my RMA the guy on the phone was very nice and said in the future NEVER to pull straight up move side to side to brake the seal of the thermal compound and once it's broken then pull up

That's good news, and :thumbsup: for being honest with them about what happened.

 

[Oyeve]

Ive pulled a fair share of cpus out of their sockets and even bent and broke a pin or 20. The CPUS always worked tho. As for removing the cpu from the HS, I assume its still on the HS and not in the socket anymore, I have just run the cpu under hot water and slide it off. The cpu is sealed so water will not ruin it. Just make sure you dry it fast as no mineral deposits are left on it.

 

[Markbnj]

It is that aspect that they are aware of as I have personally returned 3 - 4 of them that have had this issue.... AMD wants you Business and Understands the issue exists....

Seriously, if you have had to do this 3-4 times the "issue" is clearly outside the case.

No way is AMD responsible for your inability to remove the heatsink. I agree with Dave and John, if you tell them what happened and they help out, that's one thing, but to RMA it as some sort of engineering defect is ridiculous. The little pins that hold AGP cards in their sockets were hard to release too. So were the little pins they used to use to hold RAM in the socket. If you take the proper steps you will never yank the CPU out with the HSF. If you do, and you get a bent pin, and can't recover from that without bending it more and breaking two others off, well then to be honest you might not want to ever handle a CPU again.

AMD Honored my RMA the guy on the phone was very nice and said in the future NEVER to pull straight up move side to side to brake the seal of the thermal compound and once it's broken then pull up

That was the very best way to handle it, and AMD deserves props for being big about it.

 

[AVP]

ZOMG dont defraud the big old corporation! that is EVIL! I just lol when I read these boards sometimes....

 

[imported_Imp]

While on the topic: How does one properly removed the clips in the first place? I've tried removing the heatsink once, but couldn't get a good feel so gave up. I've seen "insert screwdriver here", but is there a thoroughly explained process to release the clips?

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: AVP
ZOMG dont defraud the big old corporation! that is EVIL! I just lol when I read these boards sometimes....

You must not read this board very often if you're surprised by that reaction.

 

[Markbnj]

Originally posted by: Imp
While on the topic: How does one properly removed the clips in the first place? I've tried removing the heatsink once, but couldn't get a good feel so gave up. I've seen "insert screwdriver here", but is there a thoroughly explained process to release the clips?

Releasing the clips isn't usually the issue. The issue is separating the mated surfaces of the heatsink and the integrated heat spreader. The foolproof way is to get it good and warm, shut down, release the clips or screws that hold the sink down, then gently rotate the sink back and forth to loosen the bond. When it rotates pretty freely kind of slide it off and up. The key is not to pull straight up, but to come off and up at an angle.

 

[Bill Brasky]

(I used the Stock Thermal Interface Material or T.I.M. as AMD Calls it)

That would also be a cause. I've had a few friends that had problems when they used the stock thermal pad. In my experience, AS5 doesn't bond like that and makes removal quite a bit easier. And like the others said, run a stress test before hand.

Sorry to about your loss. My old 3700+ was such a great overclocker, I became pretty attached to it also.

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: ComputerWizKid
AMD Honored my RMA the guy on the phone was very nice and said in the future NEVER to pull straight up move side to side to brake the seal of the thermal compound and once it's broken then pull up

Glad to Hear !!

Note: John is one of THE most helpful members on this board.....PERIOD!

Peace,

...Galvanized

I agree with what you say here.....


But, John is always quick to attack what he sees as unethical... without having a view of the Reality of Situation..... Based upon his view of the world the OP had a $200.00 Key FOB...

Based upon my Suggestion the OP will be back in Buisness in a week or so.

As I have stated many times... The Number of Posts that you have on a Forum... does not translate to Dictating Policy to others. His post was not assistive in any way....

It was ranting Personal Ethical Views upon others.

Originally posted by: Markbnj



No way is AMD responsible for your inability to remove the heatsink. I agree with Dave and John, if you tell them what happened and they help out, that's one thing, but to RMA it as some sort of engineering defect is ridiculous.

AMD has Design Responsibility all the way around. They are who draw all of the Blueprints, and provide dimensional data to their Vendors, and Partners. AMD has responsibility here because they specify the Thermal Interface Material, and they Provide Vendors with Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerances.

If you don?t have Adequate Clearance on the sides of the heatsink to the retainer tray, you cannot rotate the heatsink enough to get it to release from the Thermal Interface Material. This is a Design Issue?.. the consumer had nothing to do with this?

Design Issues are things that you as a consumer cannot control. And they fall firmly in the court of AMD in this case?. AMD gets the Lot information off of the side of the heatsink? and then AMD does a chargeback to the Vendor.

The issue is that some of the heatsinks are at or above the high end of the specifications that were supplied to the vendor?


That is why AMD just kinda grins and deals with it....

 

[Markbnj]

AMD has Design Responsibility all the way around. They are who draw all of the Blueprints, and provide dimensional data to their Vendors, and Partners. AMD has responsibility here because they specify the Thermal Interface Material, and they Provide Vendors with Geometric Dimensioning and Tolerances.

If you don?t have Adequate Clearance on the sides of the heatsink to the retainer tray, you cannot rotate the heatsink enough to get it to release from the Thermal Interface Material. This is a Design Issue?.. the consumer had nothing to do with this?

There certainly could be a design issue. On the other hand, the fact that some people have a hard time with heat sink removal is not evidence that there is a design issue. The typical end-user of a computer is not expected to have their hands in the case, and certainly not expected to remove the CPU. I don't have numbers, but it seems safe to say that the vast majority of computers will never have the CPU removed post-manufacture. There are tons of other devices lying around my house right now which could suffer serious damage if someone who did not know the specific procedures attempted to open one and remove components from it. Computers are not designed to be used like VCRs by the end-user public, constantly sticking stuff in and out. If they were, then they would have a slot in the front panel, over which would be stencilled the words "Insert CPU."

As for "ranting on ethics," which you mentioned with regard to John, I like the fact that Anandtech as a community doesn't tolerate "wink wink" ethical bullshit with respect to software piracy and sticking it to hardware OEMs. I'm glad AMD stood up for the OP. He was honest with them, and they made a good, and generous, CRM decision. If he had sent the thing back claiming some sort of design failure with the heatsink mount, they should rightfully have gotten a good laugh out of it. If he had sent it back claiming shipping damage, he probably would have gotten a new chip in that case too, but would be a thief. He made the right decision, and I hope that's the kind of advice we continue to see dispensed at AT.

 

[John]

Originally posted by: Mr Fox

AMD makes the Final Decisions on something such as this? Not John the Forum Whore?

But, John is always quick to attack what he sees as unethical... without having a view of the Reality of Situation..... Based upon his view of the world the OP had a $200.00 Key FOB...

Based upon my Suggestion the OP will be back in Buisness in a week or so.

As I have stated many times... The Number of Posts that you have on a Forum... does not translate to Dictating Policy to others. His post was not assistive in any way....

It was ranting Personal Ethical Views upon others.

When you break something, accidental or not, and try to RMA it to the mfg that is unethical behavior. However it appears the OP was able to get AMD to warranty the cpu so it's AMD's decision to modify their own warranty policy. If he was truthful with them and they still warrantied the item that's even better.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/Tec...alResources/0,,30_182_867_2139,00.html

This limited warranty does not cover damages due to external causes, including improper use, problems with electrical power, accident, neglect, alteration, repair, improper installation, or improper testing.

Mr Fox, I didn't attack anyone; I simply stated facts. You on the other hand resorted to childish name calling. You've been around here for less than two months and you want to call me out? :roll: Sometimes people appear bright until they speak.