Proof black lives don't matter - the execution of Philando Castile (30 page TL;DR added to OP)

[Skel]

I know it's pointless to try, but would it shock you to learn (again and again and again) that twice as many whites are killed by police?

Does that make you sick for "not caring about their lives" and so forth?

If you could get off the emotional rollercoaster and think clearly, you'll see you're greatly, GREATLY exaggerating and will never be able to solve an actual problem in this state of mind where it's all emotion, rhetoric, exaggeration and accusation in order to fuel anti-police hatred.

Link to this bullshit claim?

Putting words in my mouth and attacking that instead. Super classy!

A. "Innocent" is certainly debatable. You're implying most/all black people shot by evil, evil cops were poor, innocent victims. That's rarely the case.
B. "Scary and dangerous" was your implication, not mine. But they have a hand in their own reputations - dress gangsta' and act like a thug (again, regardless of colour) don't be surprised when treated as such.


Would loooooove to see a citation for that claim.

If citations are important why do you rarely include them in your statements?

 

[buckshot24]

If i shoot a guy who poses no threat what so ever to me, who has no gun visible nor in his hand then what would be the charge? If a copper who is supposedly held to a much higher standard does the same thing then in your mind he's justified? How about if it's you? Still justified?

I don't mind the police in the UK at all but then again if a copper did something like that in the UK he would be serving a lifetime sentence for murder.

You just don't get it, probably because you are Canadian.

I believe the standard is that there must be a reasonable belief that there is a threat not that a threat actually existed. He had a reasonable belief that there was a gun since he was informed that there was one.

 

[Skel]

I would really love to see some camera footage of the moments before the publicly released version to have a fuller sense of everything that transpired between him and the cops. If he'd not done anything wrong it would further justify legal action against the city. Not being privy to the testimony and evidence presented in the cops trial I truly cannot render an opinion on this shooting. The evidence from the cell phone camera suggests that he was wrongfully shot, however, the jury must of seen something that motivated them to acquit the cop.

Did you watch the video in the OP from the LEO's dashcam? It showed him walking up to the car..

 

[buckshot24]

Gnostic from the Latin word gnosis refers specifically to knowledge about the existence of a God, you're using the word wrong.

He saw now gun but in his imagination he was at risk... I don't think this is a valid defence.

No I'm not.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/agnostic

 

[Dr. Zaus]

The point is you don't assume a guy is lying when he tells you that he has a gun. The cop had good reason to assume there was in fact a gun. Him seeing it or not doesn't matter.

Just keep in mind that I think this was a BAD SHOOT and Castille should be alive today.

Hardly conclusive evidence. People do all kinds of weird stuff. I think he probably wasn't reaching for his gun but I don't know he wasn't. I'm just wondering how you're so certain.
Elementary! People are strange and do strange things all the time so I don't think you've exhausted the possibilities
Great, we agree.

Back to my questions from before then:

What is the thesis you are aiming at? What are you trying to get at - that you agree it's literally irrational for the cop to have shot this Philando? That there are no objective criteria available that would lead a rational person to fear Philando? It's much closer to a schizophrenic break on the cop's part. Are you just trying to establish it's "not murder when the cops do it"? Because the cop was either literally out of his mind criminally insane (which is the only way you have presented to defend an alternative reading) or he committed what, ethically, should be considered murder.

And while I'm no MENSA member my IQ is significantly closer to being qualified for membership than it is to 65.

I believe you, I really really believe you. I mean 65 is three standard deviations low, the best available balance of evidence indicates your IQ is likely around 93.5. And while IQ is not an good judge of anyone, most particularly minorities for whom it is very bias, it's not unfair to say someone sub-standard, like yourself, is going to have trouble keeping up with folks who... and let's be honest... are too smart to think Mensa's buck-thirty, or 20 out of every 1000 people, is all that special (nothing wrong with such a social club... though watch the video below).

Now, Sr., since you called me 'nasty' I will give you an artistic-rendition of what I thin 'nasty' actually looks like, remember the space between the first set of ****s and the second set of ****s is performance art, and not actually directed at you.

****​

But don't think that just because you are a sub-standard human you are actually a sub-human. Stupid asshole lives matter - and stupid assholes get a LOT of bigotry against people like you just because they can't follow a simple conversation, or think about anything more complex than your dick and your guns (but I repeat myself).

Honestly, I would use an epithet to point out how effeminate you are in dishing out really nasty accusations, but not being able to even look at questions that ask about your relation to what you literally just accused me of, but some of the most emotionally strong people I know are homosexuals and women. So let me put it to you this way:

You are so effeminate, you make the most effeminate of other effeminate persons seem like a totally roided up t800 with a shot gun. Pussy up you tiny, soft, sensitive testicle.

***​

x

First let me thank you for trying to engage in an honest conversation. I take you at your word at this and will try the same. As you can see from the rest of the thread, I got jack and shit out of Buck-O here, but I think we can both tell that was a neigh impossibility. He's closer to a benobo's 80 than whatever the hell it takes to think past one's dick.

I know it's pointless to try, but would it shock you to learn (again and again and again) that twice as many whites are killed by police?

Yes, the systematic bigotry against my own people, poor white people, is something I'm very angry about as well. However, I must admit, even driving a broken ass honda civic with a tail light out I was treated well by the cops - except the two times I was arrested for having a minority's rare name (I'm white - the place is 92%+ Hispanic for 250 miles in any direction - my rare white name is the same as my dad's - he wrote a bad check and the cops just wouldn't believe there could be TWO of US).

Does that make you sick for "not caring about their lives" and so forth?

If someone literally wants to make 1 out of 1000 people slightly more comfortable at the cost of the ability of 26 people out of 1000 people to have any chance at a life - yea that's sick.

I may well be sick though, I dote on my children too much and give to the poor too little. But I'm a human, so I know that's what humans do - thus why we need a leviathan to intervene to save us from our shitty animal nature.

I mean Jesus, half of the people in the US have an IQ below 100 (by definition).

If you could get off the emotional rollercoaster and think clearly, you'll see you're greatly, GREATLY exaggerating and will never be able to solve an actual problem in this state of mind where it's all emotion, rhetoric, exaggeration and accusation in order to fuel anti-police hatred.

Look man, I'm literally begging for a counter argument. Did you see when someone made a good and rational counter argument? I was so delighted... I so desperately want someone who doesn't already agree with me to be in a room with me. I've looked high and low, curated as many relationships as I can, and put up with all sorts of nonsense.

But nothing.

I'm begging you, address my points against the basic conservative talking points, re-posted below.

Black lives matter isn't about saving black lives because they ignore the black on black murder epidemic or the genocide of black babies via abortion.

OK, now I get where you're coming from!

I'm so staunchly anti-abortion I've become a democrat. You aren't going to stop abortion, the best you can do is help mothers not feel so much despair about their lives that they feel it's better to end the life of their unborn child. You aren't going to stop impoverished people from acting out, the best you can do is help a generation of people obtain the best possible education so they can engage in higher paying jobs - part of that education is a safe home life - and important part of which is knowing you'll have a home with electricity, and the ability to get antibiotics when you have a ear infection and a temperature of 103 (something I did not have from time to time as a poor person growing up in south Texas).

The problem isn't sharing the wealth (socialism), its NOT sharing the ability to gain wealth with blacks, via Urban Ghettos and 'red-lining' that kept blacks from the suburbs. This was spurred on by a racist democrat named LBJ who initiated the socialized housing that put poor blacks on top of poor blacks, a recent historic cause for not better overcoming the truly-horrific historical actions our society has taken against this community and the "black murder epidemic" you are railing against.

If YOU really do care about black lives, then why the holy hell are you a conservative? You should want to help black mothers not feel so desperate, you should want to help black children have a better education, you should know they need access to health care. Now be honest: Do black lives matter to you? Or are they an out-group who you see as "just wanting hand outs"? Because republicans are 100% against hand UPS (enough funding for school, reasonably low-density housing, and access to health care) and act100% for maintaining ghettos and laws that kill a single mom's social-support if she gets married.

Did you know that republicans voted in "cuts" to the social safety net that make it so a two earner house hold with 3 kids has more resources at 30k than 50k? This wasn't always the case, but right in the middle there's a doughnut where marginal access to resources is negative - poor people can't escape this poverty trap because they are worried about how they will pay for pampers AND formula. As a matter of human psychology (not a choice, but how humans are built) - if we allowed people to find self-respect and a place in society where they were respected, they wouldn't be so inclined to engage in anti-social behavior.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Putting words in my mouth and attacking that instead. Super classy!

A. "Innocent" is certainly debatable. You're implying most/all black people shot by evil, evil cops were poor, innocent victims. That's rarely the case.
B. "Scary and dangerous" was your implication, not mine. But they have a hand in their own reputations - dress gangsta' and act like a thug (again, regardless of colour) don't be surprised when treated as such.


Would loooooove to see a citation for that claim.

A. Innocent as in not posing a deadly threat and still get murdered by the cop. No one is actually innocent of everything.

B. "black people are, on average, committing far more dangerous/violent crime than whites are which is WHY they get a different reaction when facing the police." That was your justification, dipshit.

 

[Blue_Max]

Link to this bullshit claim?

If citations are important why do you rarely include them in your statements?

Because this evidence has been provided so many damned times on this forum. Shall we do it all over again for the lefties to ignore.... again?

 

[J.Wilkins]

No I'm not.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/agnostic

Yes you are.

Do we really have to do this?

agnostic
noun [ C ]
uk /æɡˈnɒs.tɪk/ us /æɡˈnɑː.stɪk/


someone who does not know, or believes that it is impossible to know, if a god exists:

Although he was raised a Catholic, he was an agnostic for most of his adult life.

Cambridge dictionary.

 

[Blue_Max]

I believe you, I really really believe you. I mean 65 is three standard deviations low, the best available balance of evidence indicates your IQ is likely around 93.5. And while IQ is not an good judge of anyone, most particularly minorities for whom it is very bias, it's not unfair to say someone sub-standard, like yourself, is going to have trouble keeping up with folks who... and let's be honest... are too smart to think Mensa's buck-thirty, or 20 out of every 1000 people, is all that special (nothing wrong with such a social club... though watch the video below).

But don't think that just because you are a sub-standard human you are actually a sub-human. Stupid asshole lives matter - and stupid assholes get a LOT of bigotry against people like you just because they can't follow a simple conversation, or think about anything more complex than your dick and your guns (but I repeat myself).

...do you even realize that you just called pretty much EVERY SINGLE ONE of your "marginalized group" pals, sub-standard humans for having IQ's under 100?
Soft bigotry of low expectations at very least.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Because this evidence has been provided so many damned times on this forum. Shall we do it all over again for the lefties to ignore.... again?

Considering whites outnumber black people with 5:1 do you have any relevant figures to show how whites are killed at any rate even close to that?

 

[interchange]

Don't give a fuck about the video, copper never saw a gun, shot the guy without ever seen a gun in his hand or anywhere else.

Don't give a fuck about how the copper felt either, he was anxious, twitchy and no matter what the guy would get shot. The guy stops moving and has his hands down, he's dead, the guy pulls his hands out and the cop will think he's pulling a gun he doesn't see out, the guy's dead. Twitchy cop in a benign situation ends with innocent guy dead. No biggie, it wasn't you this time.

Don't give a fuck about race bullshit except for actual facts and statistics.

Twitchy copper murdered and innocent civilian, end of story.

You are welcome to come to a different conclusion than me on what happened.

But I will not be moved by your assertion that your conclusion is superior when it is based on active refusal to consider actual video evidence of the event in question.

 

[buckshot24]

Back to my questions from before then:

What is the thesis you are aiming at? What are you trying to get at - that you agree it's literally irrational for the cop to have shot this Philando? That there are no objective criteria available that would lead a rational person to fear Philando? It's much closer to a schizophrenic break on the cop's part. Are you just trying to establish it's "not murder when the cops do it"? Because the cop was either literally out of his mind criminally insane (which is the only way you have presented to defend an alternative reading) or he committed what, ethically, should be considered murder.

The justice system acquitted him of criminal wrongdoing. Its time for you to move on. I'd imagine the cop is going to be sued for wrongful death or something which he probably would lose.

I believe you, I really really believe you. I mean 65 is three standard deviations low, the best available balance of evidence indicates your IQ is likely around 93.5.

That would be further from MENSA levels, so you don't believe me or you're a moron.

If you want to get any answers out of me you will need to apologize for using such a shameful and dishonest form of argumentation.

 

[J.Wilkins]

You are welcome to come to a different conclusion than me on what happened.

But I will not be moved by your assertion that your conclusion is superior when it is based on active refusal to consider actual video evidence of the event in question.

I do not care if you ignore the facts and reality of the situation to make yourself feel better about it but be aware that that is what you are doing.

Fact: Cop did NOT see a gun and executed him out of fear rather than actually being threatened. (this is my main point, copper did not see a gun, he said that he did not see a gun, no gun pointed at you, no gun in the guys hand, no gun visible... and the cop fucking unloads in his face)

If you want to make believe, go ahead, I'll stick with what is absolutely known and admitted by the copper.

 

[buckshot24]

Considering whites outnumber black people with 5:1 do you have any relevant figures to show how whites are killed at any rate even close to that?

If you adjust for violent crime rates the disparity disappears.

 

[buckshot24]

Yes you are.

Do we really have to do this?

agnostic
noun [ C ]
uk /æɡˈnɒs.tɪk/ us /æɡˈnɑː.stɪk/


someone who does not know, or believes that it is impossible to know, if a god exists:

Although he was raised a Catholic, he was an agnostic for most of his adult life.

Cambridge dictionary.

Definition 3, idiot.

 

[buckshot24]

I do not care if you ignore the facts and reality of the situation to make yourself feel better about it but be aware that that is what you are doing.

Fact: Cop did NOT see a gun and executed him out of fear rather than actually being threatened. (this is my main point, copper did not see a gun, he said that he did not see a gun, no gun pointed at you, no gun in the guys hand, no gun visible... and the cop fucking unloads in his face)

If you want to make believe, go ahead, I'll stick with what is absolutely known and admitted by the copper.

Again, actual threats do not need to be established. Educate yourself.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

And what the fuck, for the sixth time i'm asking this, does what ordinary citizens of any given ethnic group do to one another have to do with the cultural problem of police violence?!

It's bloody amazing how none of you degenerates will look this question in the eye.

And for your information, a cop does not specifically need to be a kard-karrying-Klan member himself to be affected by this. When the avalanche is in motion it doesn't matter which pebble fell first.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Did you watch the video in the OP from the LEO's dashcam? It showed him walking up to the car..

It doesn't show anything going on in the car. The conversation is calm at first before things go south, however, we cannot see the events in the car. I am linking both versions for anyone to watch for themselves.

 

[Skel]

Because this evidence has been provided so many damned times on this forum. Shall we do it all over again for the lefties to ignore.... again?

Just so I'm clear.. you won't provide links to where you got some stats you want everyone to go upon because it's been done before in other threads, but you still expect everyone to give you citations?

 

[J.Wilkins]

Definition 3, idiot.

Read my post again, that is the one and only definition from the Cambridge dictionary but even from the dictionary.com link the third option involves the injection of God.

I'm doubtful is what you wanted to say, don't reject learning things just say thank you and move on.

 

[buckshot24]

Read my post again, that is the one and only definition from the Cambridge dictionary but even from the dictionary.com link the third option involves the injection of God.

I'm doubtful is what you wanted to say, don't reject learning things just say thank you and move on.

I read your post and you're wrong. I used it correctly. I'm right and you're just being a useless idiot in trying to make a point. It is EXACTLY what I wanted to say.

 

[Skel]

It doesn't show anything going on in the car. The conversation is calm at first before things go south, however, we cannot see the events in the car. I am linking both versions for anyone to watch for themselves.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're asking..

I would really love to see some camera footage of the moments before the publicly released version to have a fuller sense of everything that transpired between him and the cops. If he'd not done anything wrong it would further justify legal action against the city. Not being privy to the testimony and evidence presented in the cops trial I truly cannot render an opinion on this shooting. The evidence from the cell phone camera suggests that he was wrongfully shot, however, the jury must of seen something that motivated them to acquit the cop.

From this it seems like you were thinking there was more to it before the LEO walked up to the car. Part of the point of what's being argued is even not being able to see in the car, there's nothing here to show that the guy did anything to justify his death. It happens so fast, and the gun in question was reportedly in his pocket completely out of view. The LEO in the video is concerned that the guy is pulling it out, even though there's nothing to back this view up.

 

[buckshot24]

Seriously, you talk about trolling and you try and nitpick on the usage of words that are perfectly appropriate. Maybe you got some of that dog feces in your ears or something.

Here's another one for you.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic

"2: a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something political agnostics"

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/agnostic


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agnostic

"2. Doubtful or noncommittal: "Though I am agnostic on what terms to use, I have no doubt that human infants comewith an enormous 'acquisitiveness' for discovering patterns" (William H. Calvin)."

 

[J.Wilkins]

I read your post and you're wrong. I used it correctly. I'm right and you're just being a useless idiot in trying to make a point. It is EXACTLY what I wanted to say.

I give up, you are one of those idiots who cannot admit when he's wrong and having a discussion with one of those idiots is useless.

Full fucking etymology and all the shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

I'm done with you.

 

[buckshot24]

I give up, you are one of those idiots who cannot admit when he's wrong and having a discussion with one of those idiots is useless.

Because I'm not wrong. You are projecting.