Progressive scan DVD player needed?

[SickBeast]

The salesman was telling us that the set we are getting does not require a progressive scan DVD player; he says it has some kind of filter which I'm guessing adaptively de-interlaces the signal. Is this possible? The set is a 50" Sony LCD rear projection, apparently they're all the rage right now. I wanted a plasma, but nobody listens to me.

 

[dsfunk]

That is a sweet tv.

 

[Rage187]

SickBeast:

I can only recommend 1 HDDVD player. The Samsung HD931.


It up converts all your old dvds to 1080 through the dvi port.


Its breathtaking.

 

[SickBeast]

Thanks guys.

That Samsung player looks amazing, I doubt my parents would spend that kind of cash on a DVD player though. Watching movies on our current player (Sony DVP-NS325) I notice all kinds of annoying artifacts that distract me from watching the movie. I would almost rather be watching a standard low-def TV. I watched the beginning of "Along Came Polly" and Ben Stiller's eyebrow kept shimmering and had interlacing artifacts everywhere. Then this other guy's bowtie started to shimmer, then the chef's cap; to me watching something like that isn't much fun, but other people around here don't seem to care and don't notice.

They're not even using component cables at this point, so I've suggested getting some as they will be useful if they get a better DVD player. Now you guys are saying the good players use DVI, so I'm not sure if the cables are even worth getting.

What about our Playstation 2 by the way? Can you get component cables for it? Ours is an old non-progressive scan model.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The salesman was telling us that the set we are getting does not require a progressive scan DVD player; he says it has some kind of filter which I'm guessing adaptively de-interlaces the signal. Is this possible? The set is a 50" Sony LCD rear projection, apparently they're all the rage right now. I wanted a plasma, but nobody listens to me.

The salesman is full of crap. No tv can upconvert an interlaced signal to look as good as a progressive scan signal.

Get a progressive scan dvd player. With most sets, it will look best if you run the tv at 480p to display the dvd signal with no conversion.

As for the playstation2, there are some component inputs for it. But the problem is that there are no hd games. There are some games in 480p (which still beats the heck out of 480i, but doesn't qualify as high high definition). The Xbox is a different story - it has games in higher resolutions.

 

[Rage187]

The HD931 can be found for under $200 off of Fleabay.

 

[jrphoenix]

Hey SickBeast,

I just upgraded my 10 year old 27" to a 50" Samsung DLP (two days ago). I am buying a surround sound system soon and then I'll game a little on a BIG screen.

I bought a progressive scan player about a year ago. I have no idea if these players send continual "progressive scan quality" images or if there is some setting that has to be turned on???????????

Congrats on the new TV!

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Thanks guys.

That Samsung player looks amazing, I doubt my parents would spend that kind of cash on a DVD player though. Watching movies on our current player (Sony DVP-NS325) I notice all kinds of annoying artifacts that distract me from watching the movie. I would almost rather be watching a standard low-def TV. I watched the beginning of "Along Came Polly" and Ben Stiller's eyebrow kept shimmering and had interlacing artifacts everywhere. Then this other guy's bowtie started to shimmer, then the chef's cap; to me watching something like that isn't much fun, but other people around here don't seem to care and don't notice.

They're not even using component cables at this point, so I've suggested getting some as they will be useful if they get a better DVD player. Now you guys are saying the good players use DVI, so I'm not sure if the cables are even worth getting.

What about our Playstation 2 by the way? Can you get component cables for it? Ours is an old non-progressive scan model.

Your parents will not spend $200 on a DVD player for a TV that costs thousands of dollars!?!?!? Give me a break!

Tell them to get a player like the Samsung.

As for the PS2, it does not make a good DVD player. The remote is crap, there is no display on the screen, and it lacks many features on the remote that all basic DVD players have.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
Your parents will not spend $200 on a DVD player for a TV that costs thousands of dollars!?!?!? Give me a break!

Yes, and that attitude is typical coming from them. They would rather listen to a salesman than to me. You should have heard what the guy was telling us:

"Sony always sets the audio and video standards". So I'm like "Really? When was the last time you rented a BetaMax tape from Blockbuster? Have you ever purchased a MiniDisc at HMV?". He's like "BetaMax is the broadcast standard". :roll:

He probably didn't want to sell them cables and a DVD player because he knew that it would push the price above $4000CDN.

By the way, you should see the sound system. TV speakers. On a $4000 set.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Rage187
I can only recommend 1 HDDVD player. The Samsung HD931.

For the record, the HD931 is not a HD-DVD player. It is Progressive with an upconvert. HD-DVD is a blue laser spec by the DVD Forum. The first players should be available in 2H 05.

KiSS Technology is supposed to release the DP-600 and DP-608 that will support Div-X and WMV-HD. They already have released Div-X players. But, they are red laser players.

 

[kki000]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!

DO NOT GET THE HD931!!!

1st of all, the hd931 is a steaming pile of poo. Its of dubious build quality and has a major flaw.

Its color space or more correctly its gamma is tuned to the pc standard for dvi. The video output from the dvi incorrectly throws out information below a certain level of black.
This is called balck-clipping. In essence it will simply leave out alot of shadow detail in low light scenes, causing it to look like a muddy mess.

rear projection lcd already has a hard time with blacks and shadow detail hence, you do not want this player.

I have the 50in sony we610 with a momitsu v880 dvd player.

This player outputs dvi with either 720p, 1080i or a vareity of custom resolutions that has been released for it via fw updates and ones u can create yourself.

This upconversion, (the player upcoverts the native 480i signal on the dvd to any of the high res formats) and subsequent delivery via dvi leads to a great dvd picture.

On fixed panel tvs like lcd and dlp (lcos as well), dvi is almost a necessity to get the highest quality picture.

The sony lcd tvs, though have a great internal scaler and do not benefit so much with these types of player. So the sony tv would be fine with a good 480i dvd player.
However, I have tested 480i/480p players and the dvi upconverting players side by side, and there is a perceptable improvement with the dvi player, especially with fine detail.

This is much more dramatic on dlp based tvs. On my sisters samsung dlp set, the dvi player is an absolute necessity.

momitsu v880

also if u do have your heart set on a samsung dvi dvd player, the 941 should be here very soon. We'll see how good that thing is.
K

 

[Concillian]

All I can say is that my friend got an HDTV and has like a $300 DVD player. After we set up his TV, we were watching a DVD (Ronin) and turning on and off progressive scan.

We were saying things like 'over there... I think there's a difference over there' and 'Freeze it maybe we can see the difference better'

Yeah, I wouldn't knock myself out over progressive scan.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Originally posted by: Concillian
All I can say is that my friend got an HDTV and has like a $300 DVD player. After we set up his TV, we were watching a DVD (Ronin) and turning on and off progressive scan.

We were saying things like 'over there... I think there's a difference over there' and 'Freeze it maybe we can see the difference better'

Yeah, I wouldn't knock myself out over progressive scan.

Some people might not care about the difference between 480i and 480p. But I can tell you one thing with certainty: if you don't think there is a significant difference between 480i and 480p, there's no way in hell you should be spending your money on an HDTV.

The difference between 480i and 480p is much greater than the difference between 480p and 1080i or 720p. If you can't see that, then don't throw away money on a high definition tv.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

Originally posted by: Concillian
All I can say is that my friend got an HDTV and has like a $300 DVD player. After we set up his TV, we were watching a DVD (Ronin) and turning on and off progressive scan.

We were saying things like 'over there... I think there's a difference over there' and 'Freeze it maybe we can see the difference better'

Yeah, I wouldn't knock myself out over progressive scan.

Some people might not care about the difference between 480i and 480p. But I can tell you one thing with certainty: if you don't think there is a significant difference between 480i and 480p, there's no way in hell you should be spending your money on an HDTV.

The difference between 480i and 480p is much greater than the difference between 480p and 1080i or 720p. If you can't see that, then don't throw away money on a high definition tv.

I actually read up a bit on the subject, and the difference between native 480p and upscaled 480p on the set is negligible. They said that with good cables (which we now have), you lose maybe 10 lines of resolution. As it turns out, this set has *excellent* de-scaling/de-blocking/noise reduction capabilities. The cheap DVD player is actually producing pretty stellar images with these features set properly.

I'm extremely fussy when it comes to image quality, and I would classify the quality of this setup as "good". Watching HDTV is stellar, but with DVD it's just good. I would say 8/10. I'm tempted to go to the store where we bought the TV to see the difference a DVI equipped player would make.

As it turns out, the player we have actually outputs to dolby digital/DTS via coax. It's a better player than I thought it was, and will probably last us until the HD-DVD players are out.

At this point I'm thinking the $200-300 for a good DVD player would be better spent on a half-decent sound setup.

Thanks to everyone for the great input. :beer:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: dsfunk
That is a sweet tv.

Yes. Yes it is. I had to eat my words about the plasma. I would highly reccomend this set to people looking for a good 50" HDTV. I'm a huge Sony skeptic and probably would have gone with a Panasonic or Samsung plasma. The resolution that 1080i brings is pretty incredible though, and looking at a 480p plasma next to a 1080i DLP, there was a noticeable difference as far as resolution goes.

My main gripe is with the viewing angles, but if the set is positioned properly it's not a big deal.

You can get a cheap 42" plasma for around half the cost of this unit at the moment, so it's a tough call for most people. I would have probably gone with the plasma because I mostly watch DVDs and I find the IQ and colour reproduction splendid on plasma sets.

 

[ponyo]

I've Zenith DVB318 DVD player I paid $160 shipped. It's very nice progressive scan player that will upconvert to 720p or 1080i via either component or DVI. It comes with both component and DVI cables but I'm using component as my 53" Sony and my X1 only has component. 1080i is very nice and I can see the difference. But difference is very small compared to the huge difference between 480i and 480p. You should definitely at minimum get progressive scan. Even $40 DVD players have progressive scan now.

Another nice player is the Phillips 642 DVD player for $69.99. It's progressive scan DVD player that will also play Divx, Xvid, AVI, Mpeg, MP3, and pretty much any video format out there. It's very nice player especially for the price and my friends and I all own one just for Divx stuff.

You can check out DVD section at AVSforum.com and you should see huge thread on the Zenith DVB318 player. Plenty of people own that due to its ability to upscan 1080i over component. I don't know if Zenith patched that in the newer batch but mine has that ability. I bought it for that reason alone.

 

[Rio Rebel]

I actually read up a bit on the subject, and the difference between native 480p and upscaled 480p on the set is negligible

I have a really hard time believing this. Everything I've ever seen or read would contradict it, but since I haven't seen your specific TV, I can't say that it's not true.

I still think somebody needs to go to Sam's club, pull a couple of 20's out of their wallet, and "splurge" on a progressive scan dvd player by Cyberhome. It will look better than any non-progressive scan dvd player on the market, and it costs 40 bucks.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

I actually read up a bit on the subject, and the difference between native 480p and upscaled 480p on the set is negligible

I have a really hard time believing this. Everything I've ever seen or read would contradict it, but since I haven't seen your specific TV, I can't say that it's not true.

I still think somebody needs to go to Sam's club, pull a couple of 20's out of their wallet, and "splurge" on a progressive scan dvd player by Cyberhome. It will look better than any non-progressive scan dvd player on the market, and it costs 40 bucks.

I had a hard time believing it myself, and I was very serious about replacing our DVD player. Honestly though, the picture quality is good. The Sony set somehow upscales the image right up to 1080i, and applies some nice filters to the image. The image isn't quite crisp enough for my liking, and very rarely there are some minute artifacts. I would say it's good enough for the time being, especially since HD-DVD is hopefully around the corner. I want something that pays back MPEG-4 and WM9 too.

I'm starting to see why people hook small computers up to their HDTV sets.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Naustica
Another nice player is the Phillips 642 DVD player for $69.99. It's progressive scan DVD player that will also play Divx, Xvid, AVI, Mpeg, MP3, and pretty much any video format out there. It's very nice player especially for the price and my friends and I all own one just for Divx stuff.

Yeah that's tempting. Do you know if it has optical/coax output for dolby digital/DTS?

 

[ponyo]

If the TV has something like Faroudja DCDi video processing chip, then the quality of the video processing (de-interlacing) could look just as good or if not better than cheap progressive scan DVD player output.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Naustica
Another nice player is the Phillips 642 DVD player for $69.99. It's progressive scan DVD player that will also play Divx, Xvid, AVI, Mpeg, MP3, and pretty much any video format out there. It's very nice player especially for the price and my friends and I all own one just for Divx stuff.

Yeah that's tempting. Do you know if it has optical/coax output for dolby digital/DTS?

Yes. It has both SPDIF optical out and coax out for dolby digital/DTS.

Forgot to mention this player also supports subtitle files for Divx stuff. Really great bargain at $70 and next best thing to HTPC or modded Xbox.

 

[TheVoid]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel

Originally posted by: Concillian
All I can say is that my friend got an HDTV and has like a $300 DVD player. After we set up his TV, we were watching a DVD (Ronin) and turning on and off progressive scan.

We were saying things like 'over there... I think there's a difference over there' and 'Freeze it maybe we can see the difference better'

Yeah, I wouldn't knock myself out over progressive scan.

Some people might not care about the difference between 480i and 480p. But I can tell you one thing with certainty: if you don't think there is a significant difference between 480i and 480p, there's no way in hell you should be spending your money on an HDTV.

The difference between 480i and 480p is much greater than the difference between 480p and 1080i or 720p. If you can't see that, then don't throw away money on a high definition tv.

There is a big difference between 480i and 480p. But you seem to think that you HAVE to get a progressive scan DVD player to view a progressive, 480p image on an HDTV. Most TVs have built in deinterlacers that will convert a 480i signal to 480p. A cheap progressive scan player usually looks worse than using the TV's deinterlacer. Of course this depends on the TV and the DVD player being used. My point is that just because a DVD player is progressive scan, doesn't mean it will be an improvement. Basically, the salesman was right in this case. Almost any progressive scan DVD player you can buy at stores like Best Buy will not show any improvement over a good 480i player with the TV doing the deinterlacing.

I wouldn't bother getting a progressive scan player unless you get one with a Faroudja or Silicon Image deinterlacer. I have a 51" 16x9 Hitachi Rear projection(51S700) and cheaper DVD players actually looked worse when I ran them in progressive mode. The first DVD player to show an improvement on the 480p output was the Denon DVD-910 which uses the Faroudja DCDi chip. This player was about $300 when I tried it earlier this year. I returned the DVD-910 for a Denon DVD-2200 which used the Silicon Image Sil 504 deinterlacer. I liked the DVD-2200 much better overall and kept it.

I haven't read much about DVD players in the past few months. For a good comparisons of many different players check out the homtheaterhifi DVD Shootout http://www.hometheaterhifi.com...earch&articles=all

Also read avsforum.com, homtheaterspot.com, hometheaterforum.com for more advice on DVD players for your new TV.

 

[RearAdmiral]

There is no question about buying a decent dvd player for a screen that big. With screens that size, artifacts and imperfections are magnified greatly. I havent seen one artifact with a dvd myself though on our new tv. We got a JVC 56" HDTV, cant remember model number. It's a nice machine. We bought a JVC home theatre thing to go along with it:5.1 sound, receiver and dvd player, and the included dvd player was great. You definitely want a model with optical or coax digital out for good sound if you have 5.1. And at least component out on it. The DVI Vs. Component thing is really personal preference. It upconverts it to 1080i usually but it doesnt really do that much because you cant put out more image than you are given, so it makes the image clearer and crisper. Some people might not like it though. You might notice more inadequacies with the picture. I was surprised at the quality of the JVC model, it was $1700, I think, but we wound up getting it for $1400. It has great darks, thats one of the reasons I picked it for the family. Anyone else have this tv?

And for the ps2 component cables, its pretty much the same thing as DVI vs. component. The ps2 makes such cruddy images that it just magnifies the flaws on a tv so big. The colors though are expectional if you dont mind the excessive jaggies.

We have Dish network for our HD stuff, as I hear their HD channels have the highest bit rate around, and its gorgeous.

Enjoy your new toys, watch our for burn in

 

[ponyo]

Very very few players upconvert to 1080i using component. Manufacturers don't want to get busted and pay major fines for doing that.

 

[Auric]

Most DVD's are progressive so interlacing the output is one conversion and de-interlacing the input is another. TV's can have excellent de-interlacers but everything being equal the ideal is maintaining progressive.