Mapping a port to a VM is NOT the same as granting direct access to the hardware. Anything running on top of Windows NT and higher (2000,XP, etc) CANNOT access the hardware directly. Being a VM doesnt change that. Now it does say there are certain versions of the RSS app that support NT,2000,XP if the OP had one of those I could see it working fine in a VM but I dont believe that is the case.
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Program requires booting into DOS outside of Windows
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Mapping a port to a VM is NOT the same as granting direct access to the hardware. Anything running on top of Windows NT and higher (2000,XP, etc) CANNOT access the hardware directly. Being a VM doesnt change that. Now it does say there are certain versions of the RSS app that support NT,2000,XP if the OP had one of those I could see it working fine in a VM but I dont believe that is the case.
videobruce
Golden Member
The progran itself requires two floppies. I would want it on a bootable CD or a USB flash drive if that would work. Never done a USB boot before.
If thats the case and I was in your shoes I would find the oldest working PC I could strip all the hardware out that didnt need to be there, review the "in summary" section to see if there was any other needed BIOS\IO changes, Format that systems C drive, boot from the 6.22 floppy and copy the contents of the 2 program floppies to the C drive and run it from there (rather than swapping disks constantly). Its been soooo long since Ive used DOS I thought there is a switch you can use on either the fdisk or format command that will copy the system files to the drive, that way you wouldn't even need the boot disk again.
Getting it on a CD\Flash drive will be additional hastle becasue in most cases you are still limited to a standard 1.44 or 2.8MB floppy disk image without geting into additional complexity to access additional files.
videobruce
Golden Member
I read that elsewhere regarding a size limit when using a CD or flash drive. Why??
Im not an expert on the topic and cant say for sure its just some legacy limitations, all of the times Ive done custom boot cds\flash it always started with a floppy image. That said you could access the additional info on them it would just be a different partition (and in the case of the CD I believe you would have to load a dos CD driver).
Like I was saying Id get that data on the hard drive and go from there even if you got the program on the CD and working are you 100% sure that none of the files are edited durning the process? If they need to be editable you couldnt do that from a CD and would be coping the data to the hard drive anyway (or using something like a ramdrive).
If the program itself is floppy based, all you need is a DOS boot disk to get started. You boot from the DOS diskette, remove it from the machine , then insert your program disk and start your executable.
That's the way all PC programs worked 25 years ago. You don't need anything else -- no Virtual Machine, no USB key, or CD drive.
If you don't have a DOS boot disk, go to an old Win9X machine and create one....or buy one off eBay.
GeekDrew
Diamond Member
Yeah, you guys are getting him going as far as getting a PC booted into DOS goes, but reading some of those links.... it could very well require serial ports w/ particular types of controllers (FIFO buffer disabled), and it looks like some versions of RSS can't even deal with the blazing speed of a 486, much less a modern PC.
I think that Mo'Slo Deluxe package is supposed to help with all that. It says it will slow down Pentium III and later machines.
The real problem here though, is that the OP has to learn how to work with naked DOS.
The real problem here though, is that the OP has to learn how to work with naked DOS.
videobruce
Golden Member
I blush easily. That's what I'm concerned about and the inherant problem(s) with serial ports.
My advice would be to find the oldest machine you can, get a very small hard disk and install DOS on that. You can get a full copy of PC-DOS off e-Bay for less than $30 delivered. It should have instructions for installing DOS on the disk. Do not try to dual boot with a current version of windows, just set up a dedicated vintage machine for this purpose.
Play around with DOS a bit before you try to connect to a radio. If you can't get a Pentium I or older machine, try that Slo'Mo package. Once you figure out how program the radios, document everything you had to do and print out some clear instructions about how to actually program the radios.. Then put the documentation in a clear plastic pouch and tape it to the vintage CPU -- which should be stored it in a closet somewhere.
Play around with DOS a bit before you try to connect to a radio. If you can't get a Pentium I or older machine, try that Slo'Mo package. Once you figure out how program the radios, document everything you had to do and print out some clear instructions about how to actually program the radios.. Then put the documentation in a clear plastic pouch and tape it to the vintage CPU -- which should be stored it in a closet somewhere.
Modelworks
Lifer
I have worked with tons of programming software. Everything from eprom programmers to spi programmers.
They all use MS-DOS. That is all you need. You don't need bat or config files. Usually best not to load anything like himem, or other drivers. You cannot run it in a dos box or emulator. The reason is because of the way these programs use the ports. Serial and parallel ports can be used for a lot more than connecting printers and modems. Many of these devices exploit that. They use things like the RTS lines on the serial port for powering the programmer. Or the Paper pins on a parallel port for toggling write/erase cycles. To do all this they use very strict timing loops. Loops that if run in a dos box or emulated are way off. That results in commands being sent to the device in the wrong format. Timing is critical , if it is off by 10ms some devices will corrupt. Some programmers that run in windows require special drivers that allow the programmer direct control of the interface bypassing windows.
Most of these programs are written in assembly language because they have to have bit perfect timing. The reason the method is so popular is because you don't need a lot of extra hardware to do the job. Usually just a parallel port and few components. If they did these with USB they would have to add USB controllers, microcontrollers, buffering chips, etc.
You can't even use usb parallel port adapters.
I keep a compaq 930mhz p3 for just this purpose.
They all use MS-DOS. That is all you need. You don't need bat or config files. Usually best not to load anything like himem, or other drivers. You cannot run it in a dos box or emulator. The reason is because of the way these programs use the ports. Serial and parallel ports can be used for a lot more than connecting printers and modems. Many of these devices exploit that. They use things like the RTS lines on the serial port for powering the programmer. Or the Paper pins on a parallel port for toggling write/erase cycles. To do all this they use very strict timing loops. Loops that if run in a dos box or emulated are way off. That results in commands being sent to the device in the wrong format. Timing is critical , if it is off by 10ms some devices will corrupt. Some programmers that run in windows require special drivers that allow the programmer direct control of the interface bypassing windows.
Most of these programs are written in assembly language because they have to have bit perfect timing. The reason the method is so popular is because you don't need a lot of extra hardware to do the job. Usually just a parallel port and few components. If they did these with USB they would have to add USB controllers, microcontrollers, buffering chips, etc.
You can't even use usb parallel port adapters.
I keep a compaq 930mhz p3 for just this purpose.
Modelworks
Lifer
You would end up with dead devices.
These type of programmers do not use the port like other devices.
videobruce
Golden Member
I re-read that link I posted (both parts) of that excellent article. I also took another look at the Readme file of the software.
This version of the software (V3.1 copyright 1999) states it was written for Windows 95. After reading about the difference between Me/2k and after vs Win98 and before, can I assume I can't use XP?
I don't believe the processor speed is a issue here since this appears to be a more recent version of the software, not one of the earlier versions that was discussed in that two part article.
Also, the 'interface device' I'm using is not their RIB, but a adapter that takes the place of the battery with a power and serial port cable attached. When I try to 'read' the radio al I get is a 'blip' from a green LED on the back of the adapter. There is also a red power LED (that is lit) that is powered from a separate power supply.
I only have COM 3 & 4 available. I'm using a separate serial port card with a MCS 9901 chipset (which I use on three other devices that use serial ports for programming etc). None are in use at the time.
This version of the software (V3.1 copyright 1999) states it was written for Windows 95. After reading about the difference between Me/2k and after vs Win98 and before, can I assume I can't use XP?
I don't believe the processor speed is a issue here since this appears to be a more recent version of the software, not one of the earlier versions that was discussed in that two part article.
Also, the 'interface device' I'm using is not their RIB, but a adapter that takes the place of the battery with a power and serial port cable attached. When I try to 'read' the radio al I get is a 'blip' from a green LED on the back of the adapter. There is also a red power LED (that is lit) that is powered from a separate power supply.
I only have COM 3 & 4 available. I'm using a separate serial port card with a MCS 9901 chipset (which I use on three other devices that use serial ports for programming etc). None are in use at the time.
Modelworks
Lifer
No you cannot use XP unless the software explicitly says XP. XP prevents direct hardware control and will not work. You also will need a slow computer. Using something like moslo will not work.
http://www.batlabs.com/newbie.html
http://www.batlabs.com/newbie.html
If it says it was written for Win95, you need a Pentium I or slower machine.
You seem to want a quick and dirty shortcut that doesn't exist. Find a Win9X machine and create a DOS boot disk. Until you do that, you aren't going to get anywhere at all.
I'm not sure what you are doing here. All the documentation on the various links say you should be working in DOS: not a "DOS box" but DOS. And since we know that you have yet to create a DOS boot disk, you can't be working in DOS...which means that you can't expect to do anything but sabotage your radio.
You seem to want a quick and dirty shortcut that doesn't exist. Find a Win9X machine and create a DOS boot disk. Until you do that, you aren't going to get anywhere at all.
Correct. 95,98,ME were based off of DOS. 2000/XP where based off NT. Two completely different things.
Id strongly recommend you getting a 95 box running or finding an old machine that has it.
Also, given your experience level with tech of this age I also strongly recommend that you set your system to have the serial port be COM1 (not 3 or 4). Yes its likely the radio\software could use other ports but from what I've read its defaulted to that and its likely your going to have to get knee deep in other settings to make it work.
edit
Every item that differs from the list of supported\recommended settings is just an extra level of troubleshooting you will have to perform to make it work.
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