Professor Quits Dept. Post After 9/11 Stir

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: conjur
Maybe I'm misreading your post. Still on sinus meds.

But, your statement:

"Would someone who did not make an effort to overthrow a knowingly repressive regime be guilty in some way themselves? I am sure there were plenty of good German folk wondering this at times in the past"

seems to imply some responsibility on the citizenry to stop evil actions of their government, even if they aren't militarily capable.

Interesting point, yes and not many here would agree with me, but whats new?
I do feel that all of us no matter what party are responsible for what we are letting them get away with.
In some way our complacentcy has enabled bushco to get where he is. And we are all responsible -in a way.
Things are not as bad a national socialist germany but I am quite sure myself if I lived back then would be in some part involved in the resistance. Just as I will be if this doesen't end and this country becomes an enemy of free-thinking sorts.

You know what the problem behind that is? People are spoiled.

People have been used to cheap gas and big cars for decades. They want their SUVs or luxury sedans with ABS, TCS, AM/FM/XM/CD/MP3/DVD and they want the cheap gas to put in it. Our highways are clogged with sole-occupant vehicles while public transportation projects get shot down due to the rejection of a small increase in taxes. If people want to make their voices heard by the energy companies, dump your car and use public transportation. Most could do it rather easily but for others it would be rather difficult, esp. for people like me where the bus lines aren't conducive to my morning commute.

Things become more and more convenient as time goes on. Hell, a person doesn't even have to leave the home anymore, literally! Communities are simply streets where each house is its own microcosm, ignorant of anything around it.

People don't read as much as they used to. Kids are growing up staring at TVs. TVs are on constantly, even if it's just as background noise. Kids play video games because it lets the dual-income parents catch a breather between the afternoon drive home and finished up the dinner dishes (and that's only if they've cooked a meal instead of dropping by McDonald's for 1500 calories of crap). Heck, I was that way for a while but have been relishing the last 10 weeks. I cancelled Cable TV *and* internet access at home. I've been catching up on reading and gotten my daughters back into reading (or doing family activities).

People let TV form their opinions for them in the shape of 30-second soundbites or 24pt headlines in the morning paper as they walk by a newsstand. Multiple sources of news aren't checked anymore and facts are taken for granted. The media is complicit in that, too, as they are woefully lacking in their own fact-checking. Ever read All The President's Men or at least seen it? The days of double/triple-checking facts with multiple sources are over. If a blogger runs a sensational headline, it's taken as bona fide fact by a large number of people who will practically fight to the death in the defense of that blogger. Even the media has begun tapping into that for making their "news" broadcats.


Like I said in a post above, it's going to take a huge, traumatic event on a national scale to change peoples' mindsets

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: conjur
Like I said in a post above, it's going to take a huge, traumatic event on a national scale to change peoples' mindsets

Well I have been ready *waves monthly buspass* Let the cars rust! Sooner the better to get our boys home.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: conjur
You're preaching to the choir. I've long said our gov't is in for a big hurt, probably even in my lifetime. The lobbyists/special interests and the way politicians' terms are focused on how to re-elected the next time so they engage in fund-raising from day one are the root cause of the failure of our government to act efficiently and to hold itself accountable.

The average voter has little chance of making change happen. There will have to be a dramatic, perhaps even tragic, event in order for true change to occur.

Yup, and that "tragic event" is the high price we will pay for not working harder to make sure our gov't does what we wish. It's not about individuals being guilty, it's about the whole. Our generation, the one before that, and the one before that.

Conjur, that "tragic event" you speak of, and you probably know this, is going to be what results in a new gov't for us. It'll be less tragic if we do it. More tragic if someone else does it. Look at Iraq. I pray it doesn't have to happen. We don't deserve it, but maybe we should expect it. 😉

I know. That's what scares me about the future that will be available for my daughters and for their children.

Our national debt isn't going away and is growing more rapidly each quarter. We're living on a borrowed future and the time to pay the piper will be coming soon.


Will there be a revolt from within or will our economy collapse making us vulnerable to outside forces? I have no idea. But, what I feel deep down is there will be a dramatic change in the way our country is run sometime in the next few decades.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: conjur
Will there be a revolt from within or will our economy collapse making us vulnerable to outside forces? I have no idea. But, what I feel deep down is there will be a dramatic change in the way our country is run sometime in the next few decades.

I just hope that when people finally wake up that there is a level-headed leader to take charge not a dictator scared people yearn for in times of trouble.
But then it's not looking so good with bush worshippers carrying on is it?

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
This country is just asking to get fooled again. /old Who song

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: ntdz
I saw the story about this psychopath on O'Reilly. Frankly, I think he should be put on the terrorist watch list.

Frankly, I think he's protected by free speech, but I also think the school should have asked him to resign immediately.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: conjur
Will there be a revolt from within or will our economy collapse making us vulnerable to outside forces? I have no idea. But, what I feel deep down is there will be a dramatic change in the way our country is run sometime in the next few decades.

I just hope that when people finally wake up that there is a level-headed leader to take charge not a dictator scared people yearn for in times of trouble.
But then it's not looking so good with bush worshippers carrying on is it?

This country is just asking to get fooled again.

Hence that line in my sig:

"He who strikes terror in others is himself continually in fear." - Claudius Claudianus

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: conjur
Maybe I'm misreading your post. Still on sinus meds.

But, your statement:

"Would someone who did not make an effort to overthrow a knowingly repressive regime be guilty in some way themselves? I am sure there were plenty of good German folk wondering this at times in the past"

seems to imply some responsibility on the citizenry to stop evil actions of their government, even if they aren't militarily capable.

Interesting point, yes and not many here would agree with me, but whats new?
I do feel that all of us no matter what party are responsible for what we are letting them get away with.
In some way our complacentcy has enabled bushco to get where he is. And we are all responsible -in a way.
Things are not as bad a national socialist germany but I am quite sure myself if I lived back then would be in some part involved in the resistance. Just as I will be if this doesen't end and this country becomes an enemy of free-thinking sorts.

You know what the problem behind that is? People are spoiled.

People have been used to cheap gas and big cars for decades. They want their SUVs or luxury sedans with ABS, TCS, AM/FM/XM/CD/MP3/DVD and they want the cheap gas to put in it. Our highways are clogged with sole-occupant vehicles while public transportation projects get shot down due to the rejection of a small increase in taxes. If people want to make their voices heard by the energy companies, dump your car and use public transportation. Most could do it rather easily but for others it would be rather difficult, esp. for people like me where the bus lines aren't conducive to my morning commute.

Things become more and more convenient as time goes on. Hell, a person doesn't even have to leave the home anymore, literally! Communities are simply streets where each house is its own microcosm, ignorant of anything around it.

People don't read as much as they used to. Kids are growing up staring at TVs. TVs are on constantly, even if it's just as background noise. Kids play video games because it lets the dual-income parents catch a breather between the afternoon drive home and finished up the dinner dishes (and that's only if they've cooked a meal instead of dropping by McDonald's for 1500 calories of crap). Heck, I was that way for a while but have been relishing the last 10 weeks. I cancelled Cable TV *and* internet access at home. I've been catching up on reading and gotten my daughters back into reading (or doing family activities).

People let TV form their opinions for them in the shape of 30-second soundbites or 24pt headlines in the morning paper as they walk by a newsstand. Multiple sources of news aren't checked anymore and facts are taken for granted. The media is complicit in that, too, as they are woefully lacking in their own fact-checking. Ever read All The President's Men or at least seen it? The days of double/triple-checking facts with multiple sources are over. If a blogger runs a sensational headline, it's taken as bona fide fact by a large number of people who will practically fight to the death in the defense of that blogger. Even the media has begun tapping into that for making their "news" broadcats.


Like I said in a post above, it's going to take a huge, traumatic event on a national scale to change peoples' mindsets

:thumbsup:

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: conjur
Maybe I'm misreading your post. Still on sinus meds.

But, your statement:

"Would someone who did not make an effort to overthrow a knowingly repressive regime be guilty in some way themselves? I am sure there were plenty of good German folk wondering this at times in the past"

seems to imply some responsibility on the citizenry to stop evil actions of their government, even if they aren't militarily capable.

Interesting point, yes and not many here would agree with me, but whats new?
I do feel that all of us no matter what party are responsible for what we are letting them get away with.
In some way our complacentcy has enabled bushco to get where he is. And we are all responsible -in a way.
Things are not as bad a national socialist germany but I am quite sure myself if I lived back then would be in some part involved in the resistance. Just as I will be if this doesen't end and this country becomes an enemy of free-thinking sorts.

You know what the problem behind that is? People are spoiled.

People have been used to cheap gas and big cars for decades. They want their SUVs or luxury sedans with ABS, TCS, AM/FM/XM/CD/MP3/DVD and they want the cheap gas to put in it. Our highways are clogged with sole-occupant vehicles while public transportation projects get shot down due to the rejection of a small increase in taxes. If people want to make their voices heard by the energy companies, dump your car and use public transportation. Most could do it rather easily but for others it would be rather difficult, esp. for people like me where the bus lines aren't conducive to my morning commute.

Things become more and more convenient as time goes on. Hell, a person doesn't even have to leave the home anymore, literally! Communities are simply streets where each house is its own microcosm, ignorant of anything around it.

People don't read as much as they used to. Kids are growing up staring at TVs. TVs are on constantly, even if it's just as background noise. Kids play video games because it lets the dual-income parents catch a breather between the afternoon drive home and finished up the dinner dishes (and that's only if they've cooked a meal instead of dropping by McDonald's for 1500 calories of crap). Heck, I was that way for a while but have been relishing the last 10 weeks. I cancelled Cable TV *and* internet access at home. I've been catching up on reading and gotten my daughters back into reading (or doing family activities).

People let TV form their opinions for them in the shape of 30-second soundbites or 24pt headlines in the morning paper as they walk by a newsstand. Multiple sources of news aren't checked anymore and facts are taken for granted. The media is complicit in that, too, as they are woefully lacking in their own fact-checking. Ever read All The President's Men or at least seen it? The days of double/triple-checking facts with multiple sources are over. If a blogger runs a sensational headline, it's taken as bona fide fact by a large number of people who will practically fight to the death in the defense of that blogger. Even the media has begun tapping into that for making their "news" broadcats.


Like I said in a post above, it's going to take a huge, traumatic event on a national scale to change peoples' mindsets

:thumbsup:

It's amazing the change in people when they actually stop with the tv set.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: conjur
Will there be a revolt from within or will our economy collapse making us vulnerable to outside forces? I have no idea. But, what I feel deep down is there will be a dramatic change in the way our country is run sometime in the next few decades.

I just hope that when people finally wake up that there is a level-headed leader to take charge not a dictator scared people yearn for in times of trouble.
But then it's not looking so good with bush worshippers carrying on is it?

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
This country is just asking to get fooled again. /old Who song

LOL, I was about to post a line from the Stones, "Sympathy for the Devil."

I shouted out "Who killed the Kennedy's ?" when after all it was you and me

Before I rant, anyone want to guess where that's going?

 

[Moonbeam]

The problem with mental illness, the inability to recognize ones own contribution to conflict in relationships, is that it always kills that which can heal it. The public pays professors to develop advanced understanding and kills them when they learn. It was just that way all my life. Son go out there and learn, but everything I learned was a dangerous lie. Hehe, what the sad ignorant don't realize is that knowledge sets you free. Free from them too. 😉

You are an ignorant fool that knows nothing at all. That fact pisses you off and because of that you will never be free. This is why God saves and loves the meek, because they are so badly beaten they are willing to surrender. The tough and the mentally protected, the wise guys on the right, they will suffer there eternal inner damnation. Sorry, but for you of course. You thought the truth would be easy and where you look. Hehe, surprise.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: conjur
Will there be a revolt from within or will our economy collapse making us vulnerable to outside forces? I have no idea. But, what I feel deep down is there will be a dramatic change in the way our country is run sometime in the next few decades.

I just hope that when people finally wake up that there is a level-headed leader to take charge not a dictator scared people yearn for in times of trouble.
But then it's not looking so good with bush worshippers carrying on is it?

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
This country is just asking to get fooled again. /old Who song

LOL, I was about to post a line from the Stones, "Sympathy for the Devil."

I shouted out "Who killed the Kennedy's ?" when after all it was you and me

Before I rant, anyone want to guess where that's going?

Rant on, McDuff!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: bamacre

I shouted out "Who killed the Kennedy's ?" when after all it was you and me

Thats a good song ever hear the band Laibach's cover?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Professor Quits Dept. Post After 9/11 Stir

[snip...]

And this guy is still on the payroll? Just shows how screwed up academia is.

As much as I may disagree with what this professor may be saying, I believe strongly that we should defend his right to say it. Although it's perfectly clear why the OP and some of those around here would disagree, first amendment be damned. After all, the RWC in this country demands a sea of nodding heads within an echo chamber of groupthink. Somehow that thought is much more repugnant to me than anything a college professor could ever say.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: conjur
Will there be a revolt from within or will our economy collapse making us vulnerable to outside forces? I have no idea. But, what I feel deep down is there will be a dramatic change in the way our country is run sometime in the next few decades.

I just hope that when people finally wake up that there is a level-headed leader to take charge not a dictator scared people yearn for in times of trouble.
But then it's not looking so good with bush worshippers carrying on is it?

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss
This country is just asking to get fooled again. /old Who song

LOL, I was about to post a line from the Stones, "Sympathy for the Devil."

I shouted out "Who killed the Kennedy's ?" when after all it was you and me

Before I rant, anyone want to guess where that's going?

Rant on, McDuff!

Ok, I don't have much time, so maybe just but cliffnotes:

IMO, sympathy for the devil is our "look-the-other-way" attitude torward our evil. In this case, whoever killed JFK is symbolizing evil, and whoever he is/they are, is getting our "sympathy."

Now, I don't want to get into who killed JFK (I honestly don't know all of the facts - guilty as charged 🙂), but his murder and the controversial cover-up is symbolic in that we didn't get to the bottom of "who" and "why." Instead we took the easy route and let our gov't tell us the "who" and the "why," and accepted it. But not really, it's like we know there was a cover-up, we know someone did something, but we just don't care enough. So, what they were saying, IMO, is that we were responsible for JFK's murder, because the perpetrators knew we wouldn't call them on it, we wouldn't dig for the true facts of the story. We let them get away with it. Now like I said, it isn't about a JFK conspiracy, it's about what it symbolizes.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
:beer: to the prof. He's spot on.

:shocked:
We agree on something.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Ok, I don't have much time, so maybe just but cliffnotes:

IMO, sympathy for the devil is our "look-the-other-way" attitude torward our evil. In this case, whoever killed JFK is symbolizing evil, and whoever he is/they are, is getting our "sympathy."

Now, I don't want to get into who killed JFK (I honestly don't know all of the facts - guilty as charged 🙂), but his murder and the controversial cover-up is symbolic in that we didn't get to the bottom of "who" and "why." Instead we took the easy route and let our gov't tell us the "who" and the "why," and accepted it. But not really, it's like we know there was a cover-up, we know someone did something, but we just don't care enough. So, what they were saying, IMO, is that we were responsible for JFK's murder, because the perpetrators knew we wouldn't call them on it, we wouldn't dig for the true facts of the story. We let them get away with it. Now like I said, it isn't about a JFK conspiracy, it's about what it symbolizes.

Yeah...I see what you're getting at. There's an element of fear about it, too. And the want (need?) to fit in with the mass mentality.

 

[Riprorin]

You won't get fired for calling 9/11 victims Nazis, but refuse to inflate grades and they'll can your a$$,

Papenfuss lost job after not doctoring grades

 

[Riprorin]

Offending Muslims will get you in trouble too. Where's the academic freedom here?

A professor is falsely accused

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
:beer: to the prof. He's spot on.

:shocked:
We agree on something.

no sh1t *checks out window for low altitude swine*

 

[Dari]

I thought the CIA was not allowed to operate in the United States. Why did they have an office at 7 World Trade Center?

Isn't this a job for the FBI?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
You won't get fired for calling 9/11 victims Nazis, but refuse to inflate grades and they'll can your a$$,

Papenfuss lost job after not doctoring grades

So yuou want that Professor fired because you find his statement disturbing?

 

[arsbanned]

I believe the answer to that would be an enthusiastic "YES!"

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It's a touchy thing that is easily misconstrued. He wasen't saying the victims were nazis but a citizen of a belligerent superpower and we as individuals are not totally innocent becasue of such.
It depends on what angle you see 9/11 from: US was stirring up trouble for decades now and got their just dues in a way.
Or the: We are all toally innocent and they hate our "freedoms" even though (IMO) the responsibility of our leaders falls on every one of our shoulders to varying degrees depening on your stance.
Would someone who did not make an effort to overthrow a knowingly repressive regime be guilty in some way themselves?
I am sure there were plenty of good German folk wondering this at times in the past.

I myself feel that if our goverenment does wrong it is our responsibility to hold them accountable.
I wouldn't go so far to say we are all nazis though. Just as every German was not a national socialist.
This guy just made the big mistake of using germany as an example in a time when nazi is a buzzword in the mainstream media (MSM) and republicans got a thing out for university proffessors nowdays.....
Bad mistake/timing but he is doing what I would expect of a professor- pushing boundries. That's their job, to think up new ideas and explore new concepts.
9/11 is just fvcked though. But then that is war yes?
The right around here seems to take this view regarding Iraqi civillians so I don't see why they have a problem about his statements, I am sure they probably dig them secretly.
(Sorry for blatent typos I have coffee muck in my keyboard )

WOW. Finally I've come across someone who has justified the attacks on 9/11. Guess he/she will also justify a nuclear attack on America. Good going

True American you are, Sir. True America, indeed.

Blame America for American deaths, the terrorists arejust holy men who are just fighting a powerful and rich country. America is evil, terrorists are brave souls. Death to America!!!!

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: raildogg

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
It's a touchy thing that is easily misconstrued. He wasen't saying the victims were nazis but a citizen of a belligerent superpower and we as individuals are not totally innocent becasue of such.
It depends on what angle you see 9/11 from: US was stirring up trouble for decades now and got their just dues in a way.
Or the: We are all toally innocent and they hate our "freedoms" even though (IMO) the responsibility of our leaders falls on every one of our shoulders to varying degrees depening on your stance.
Would someone who did not make an effort to overthrow a knowingly repressive regime be guilty in some way themselves?
I am sure there were plenty of good German folk wondering this at times in the past.

I myself feel that if our goverenment does wrong it is our responsibility to hold them accountable.
I wouldn't go so far to say we are all nazis though. Just as every German was not a national socialist.
This guy just made the big mistake of using germany as an example in a time when nazi is a buzzword in the mainstream media (MSM) and republicans got a thing out for university proffessors nowdays.....
Bad mistake/timing but he is doing what I would expect of a professor- pushing boundries. That's their job, to think up new ideas and explore new concepts.
9/11 is just fvcked though. But then that is war yes?
The right around here seems to take this view regarding Iraqi civillians so I don't see why they have a problem about his statements, I am sure they probably dig them secretly.
(Sorry for blatent typos I have coffee muck in my keyboard )

WOW. Finally I've come across someone who has justified the attacks on 9/11. Guess he/she will also justify a nuclear attack on America. Good going

True American you are, Sir. True America, indeed.

Blame America for American deaths, the terrorists arejust holy men who are just fighting a powerful and rich country. America is evil, terrorists are brave souls. Death to America!!!!

The thing is he didn't say that.