Problems with the concept of heaven...

[Jeff7]

Heaven is fairly simple. You accept Jesus in your heart and believe that you are a sinner and that he died on the cross, taking your place, and you get a free ticket there.

You reject, and reject, and simply don't want to even consider believing, you go to hell.

It has NOTHING to do with good works. Good works comes as part of being a good Christian that is obedient to the Lord, but once you are saved, it's done. God is merciful and allows anyone to go to heaven, you just need to accept.

So what happened to everyone born before Jesus? They're all just screwed then?

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

Heaven is fairly simple. You accept Jesus in your heart and believe that you are a sinner and that he died on the cross, taking your place, and you get a free ticket there.

You reject, and reject, and simply don't want to even consider believing, you go to hell.

It has NOTHING to do with good works. Good works comes as part of being a good Christian that is obedient to the Lord, but once you are saved, it's done. God is merciful and allows anyone to go to heaven, you just need to accept.

Then Jesus was crucified there were 2 criminals. One kept taunting him and making fun of him saying things like "If you really are the God then bring us down and save yourself!" the other one, knowing he did wrong said. "Please remember me when you get to the kingdom". He had faith that he was in fact the savior. Jesus replied "I say to you today, you will be in paradise". This criminal did not do any good deeds, he simply believed.

I just paraphrased, but basically...
http://bible.cc/luke/23-39.htm

This is a good example of how easy it is to get to heaven.

How do you know this? Have you ever met anyone who went to Heaven personally? If so, what is it like? Does it conform to what the Bible says Heaven is (and how does the Bible know, anyway?), or is it tailored for each individual?

 

[Red Squirrel]

So what happened to everyone born before Jesus? They're all just screwed then?

They had to make sacrifices, kill animals all the time, burnt offerings etc... this is all in the old testament. They had to keep doing it over and over because it was not good enough. Jesus was sent as the ultimate sacrifice so this stuff did not have to happen anymore.

 

[her209]

So what happened to everyone born before Jesus? They're all just screwed then?

They are in Limbo.

 

[Jeff7]

They had to make sacrifices, kill animals all the time, burnt offerings etc... this is all in the old testament. They had to keep doing it over and over because it was not good enough. Jesus was sent as the ultimate sacrifice so this stuff did not have to happen anymore.

Didn't answer the question - are they screwed? Or in limbo, as her209 said? That'd suck. "Sorry guys, I arbitrarily changed the rules for the afterlife after you were born. No backsies."


And what's the deal with burnt offerings anyway? So many religions are obsessed with them. Do deities only enjoy things we use once they're oxidized at high temperature?

Then there's the whole matter of human sacrifices (Jesus' death) and ritual cannibalism (communion).

 

[F1N3ST]

Didn't answer the question - are they screwed? Or in limbo, as her209 said? That'd suck. "Sorry guys, I arbitrarily changed the rules, as well as my own preferences for sacrifices, for the afterlife after you were born. No backsies."

What about cavemen?

 

[Jeff7]

What about cavemen?

A fabrication by the evil scientific community, just like tectonic plates.

 

[zinfamous]

So what happened to everyone born before Jesus? They're all just screwed then?

I think the Council of Nicea created the concept of Purgatory to deal with those peeps, also to deal with un-baptized infants. Well, that was many of the reasons for "creating" purgatory via panel vote. It's a nice lump explanation for all the plot holes one finds in religious dogma.

pretty clever no?

 

[Jeff7]

I think the Council of Nicea created the concept of Purgatory to deal with those peeps, also to deal with un-baptized infants. Well, that was many of the reasons for "creating" purgatory via panel vote. It's a nice lump explanation for all the plot holes one finds in religious dogma.

pretty clever no?

That still sucks, doesn't it though? Through no wrongful doing of your own, besides being born at the wrong time, you're stuck in Purgatory.
And the un-baptized infant thing is just silly in another way - that this deity would allow a newborn to die in the first place, and then punish it because its caretakers were likely more concerned with keeping it alive than performing some ancient water-splashing ritual.

Oy geez....it's crazy that this sort of behavior has not only persisted for so long, but that it's viewed as "normal."

Now then, on the subject of normalcy, I need to get back to my daily ritual of singing three songs of the one true god: Elvis.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

They had to make sacrifices, kill animals all the time, burnt offerings etc... this is all in the old testament. They had to keep doing it over and over because it was not good enough. Jesus was sent as the ultimate sacrifice so this stuff did not have to happen anymore.

Really? According to WHAT belief?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

A fabrication by the evil scientific community, just like tectonic plates.

Or the Univere of multiples.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

They had to make sacrifices, kill animals all the time, burnt offerings etc... this is all in the old testament. They had to keep doing it over and over because it was not good enough. Jesus was sent as the ultimate sacrifice so this stuff did not have to happen anymore.

I thought God loved all animals on earth equally. So why did God require people to sacrifice animals? It's like building a really cool model boat which you love, and you give it to your brother, but you're only happy about giving it away on the condition that he'll immediately smash it to bits and ask you for a new one.

 

[Lonyo]

So what happened to everyone born before Jesus? They're all just screwed then?

In the time before Jesus, some sects of Jews didn't even believe in the afterlife, so some of them wouldn't even have cared.

 

[DaveSimmons]

In the time before Jesus, some sects of Jews didn't even believe in the afterlife, so some of them wouldn't even have cared.

until they woke up . . . IN HELL!!!!!

 

[Leros]

until they woke up . . . IN HELL!!!!!

but they don't know what they're missing, so its ok. Unless the demons told them.

 

[shiner]

No such place, debate is pointless.

 

[alkemyst]

nice self portrait...

 

[alkemyst]

How do you know this? Have you ever met anyone who went to Heaven personally? If so, what is it like? Does it conform to what the Bible says Heaven is (and how does the Bible know, anyway?), or is it tailored for each individual?

By mentioning the 'Bible' you are constraining this post.

By your first couple questions you are being retarded.

 

[MJinZ]

Heaven is where sin is not allowed, but it's evil that causes us to sin. Once this evil is removed from us, we can be fit for heaven.

It's complicated and most people don't understand, but I believe all people will go to heaven, because it was the devil and his demons who caused us to sin in the first place and that is who will be punished.

Sweet, all set then.

 

[zerocool84]

Heaven is fairly simple. You accept Jesus in your heart and believe that you are a sinner and that he died on the cross, taking your place, and you get a free ticket there.

You reject, and reject, and simply don't want to even consider believing, you go to hell.

It has NOTHING to do with good works. Good works comes as part of being a good Christian that is obedient to the Lord, but once you are saved, it's done. God is merciful and allows anyone to go to heaven, you just need to accept.

You can be the greatest person in the world but what you're saying is that it doesn't matter and you have to accept Jesus as your Saviour. That's a sad way to live your life and as a "Christian" that's a sad way to live your faith.

 

[szechuanpork]

Now as far as I know, almost none of the religions dub slavery as evil...so a slave owner should have a place in whatever heaven he ends up in...

christianity does not condone slavery.

 

[Kadarin]

I think the Council of Nicea created the concept of Purgatory to deal with those peeps, also to deal with un-baptized infants. Well, that was many of the reasons for "creating" purgatory via panel vote. It's a nice lump explanation for all the plot holes one finds in religious dogma.

pretty clever no?

Sure was awfully nice of the Council of Nicaea to get together and determine the nature of Heaven, Purgatory, and so forth, and what happens to everyone after they die. If it weren't for those guys, who knows what would happen when we finally kick the bucket.

 

[Jeff7]

christianity does not condone slavery.

It used to, at least in the Old Testament. But that "doesn't count" anymore, thanks to God changing his mind about things after Jesus arrived on the scene.

 

[angminas]

The idea that all you have to do to be saved is "believe" that Jesus is the savior sent by God is clearly and specifically refuted in James chapter 2. Real faith produces works. Even the demons believed Jesus was the Messiah and son of God.

And don't go all "Oh, so you believe works save, and you can earn Heaven?" on me, either.

 

[kia75]

Heaven is supposed to be your perfect place.

Where did you get this idea from? There are many different ideas about heaven, but then there's alot of stuff just made up.

Biblically, other then this wonderful place little is said about heaven. The only thing we know about heaven is that there are many mansions there and that wives and husbands don't exist.

Budhist believe in Nirvana where you're one witn the universe.

Norse believed in Valhalla where you spent the rest of eternity locked in battle.

Greeks believed in Hades where you just existed for eternity, maybe with some punishment if you did something to make the gods angry.

Jews believed in sheol, a lifeless existence similar to Hades.

What if that perfect place for this individual had you has his slave back in ancient Egypt or whereever and now he wants you in Heaven...when you die to you go to him...if you were dead already; do you lose your own place in heaven?

You're thinking of this as a 20th century person in which everyone is born equal. Egyptians believed the afterworld was just for pharohs and other nobles. Slaves are like cattle or something. They don't have souls.

If you're a noble and you bring your slaves with you to the afterlife, they exist there. If you don't, well slaves are cattle, they don't go to heaven.

On a second topic...many are married and in relationships yet grow to hate their SO...they are civil though and love the stability even a terrible relationship brings. The unknowing SO dies, do they get you back in Heaven?

Which heaven are you talking about? Biblical heaven? Well, I'll let Jesus handle this question.

Mathew 22:23-32


23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24"Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"

29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."