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Problems Democrats will face and how to meet them: Socialism

M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
How should Democratic candidates deal with the charge of wishing the evils of socialism on the nation? What do you feel about this? Is it an issue that needs addressing? Any recommendations?

I think it came up, as one example, in the positions of various candidates on health care, whether single provider is too extreme. Sanders addressed that in a very blow by moment that, I think passed with completely insufficient emphasis. “You can have the same hospital and doctor but cheaper.”
 
Does furthering a health care system we currently already use for a lot of people mean we are becoming socialist? I don't think so and I don't think anyone is proposing that we move to socialism.

So now that we've established that, we can then address the claims in this way:

"The constitution doesn't state what economic system we must use but it does state that the purpose of government is to pursue the general welfare of its citizens and country. So while you may yell, "socialism", I say I'm just doing my constitutional duty and advocating for ideas that are best for this country.

I advocate for universal health care, specifically Medicare for all because I believe it's in the best interest of the country to have a healthy populace. Its good for businesses and its good for our citizens. A single player system also allows us to better control costs and put the health of our citizens above profits.

If you wish to put profits above the general welfare of this country then I welcome that debate and we can let the electorate decide what's more important to them."

To boil it down to a bumper sticker slogan:
Why do you hate America?

Now I personally don't advocate for any particular health care system as I believe that any system, to be successful (in terms of costs and coverage) require price/cost controls.
 
I have considered your thoughtful and important question and have a suggestion. Replace socialism with "buying in bulk" whenever and wherever you see/hear someone use it as a pejorative. Example:

We can't have universal healthcare because it is socialism.
We can't have universal healthcare because it is buying in bulk.

If someone needs further clarification, you can say we would buy healthcare in chunks larger than an alternator.
 
Socialism is a somewhat charged word, but college costs and medical care are so outlandishly expensive and impact so many people, that I think if they present a reasonable plan for either or both, and address how it will be paid for, both would be well received. Now if they start down the road of reparations and guaranteed annual income, they might as well cancel the election and hand another term directly to Trump.
 
Talk about all the socialism for the wealthy. Give examples of how socialism allows us to afford certain things by stabilizing or reducing prices. Remind people that money spent on socialism for the majority ends up back in the system.
 
ivwshane said:
Does furthering a health care system we currently already use for a lot of people mean we are becoming socialist? I don't think so and I don't think anyone is proposing that we move to socialism.

So now that we've established that, we can then address the claims in this way:

"The constitution doesn't state what economic system we must use but it does state that the purpose of government is to pursue the general welfare of its citizens and country. So while you may yell, "socialism", I say I'm just doing my constitutional duty and advocating for ideas that are best for this country.

I advocate for universal health care, specifically Medicare for all because I believe it's in the best interest of the country to have a healthy populace. Its good for businesses and its good for our citizens. A single player system also allows us to better control costs and put the health of our citizens above profits.

If you wish to put profits above the general welfare of this country then I welcome that debate and we can let the electorate decide what's more important to them."

To boil it down to a bumper sticker slogan:
Why do you hate America?

Now I personally don't advocate for any particular health care system as I believe that any system, to be successful (in terms of costs and coverage) require price/cost controls.
Click to expand...
I am of the opinion that either Universal Single Payer Healthcare either cant be Socialism or that Socialism is good. I suspect the latter is more likely which makes the task explaining why. Thus, if I were running on Universal Payer I would tell the voters not to worry what you call it but whether you would like to have the healthcare you already have and take away the profit in your healthcare bill that goes to a few wealthy health care providers and use it to give the same coverage to people your fellow human beings including yourself, if you fall on hard times and can't afford what you now can pay. You can have your current health insurence or you can insure you always have your current health insurance. It is the folk making a killing on health insurance that hate socialism and tell you how evil it is.
 
Moonbeam said:
I am of the opinion that either Universal Single Payer Healthcare either cant be Socialism or that Socialism is good. I suspect the latter is more likely which makes the task explaining why. Thus, if I were running on Universal Payer I would tell the voters not to worry what you call it but whether you would like to have the healthcare you already have and take away the profit in your healthcare bill that goes to a few wealthy health care providers and use it to give the same coverage to people your fellow human beings including yourself, if you fall on hard times and can't afford what you now can pay. You can have your current health insurence or you can insure you always have your current health insurance. It is the folk making a killing on health insurance that hate socialism and tell you how evil it is.
Click to expand...
You have to remember that we have been taught from birth that government waste is way worse than profit and not only that but profit motivation drives prices down dontchaknow.
 
Wouldn't the easy answer be to point out that every democratic form of government is socialist? The spectrum is very broad, the argument is where we want to be on it.
 
I think you need to recoin socialist agendas as something else, that an ram through that socialism is not communism and that socialism actually leads to higher values of freedom and democracy.
 
Greenman said:
Wouldn't the easy answer be to point out that every democratic form of government is socialist? The spectrum is very broad, the argument is where we want to be on it.
Click to expand...
You'd think it would be that simple but many Americans are incapable of understanding that, incapable of wading through the propaganda telling them otherwise, and/or brainwashed from birth to believe they'll be rewarded for believing what they hear instead of what they see (AKA faith).
 
Capitalism has always and will always exist.

It's about removing some sectors of the economy that have to do with individual and societal health (lowercase h) from being commodified, and hence, prevented from being available for all individuals, and society as a whole, because of costs/profit margins of some company.

No, the Federal Government should not manufacture cars.

Yes, the Federal Government should operate high-speed rail.

No, the Federal Government should not design handbags.

Yes, the Federal Government should fund and administrate universal health care.

First, you need to separate out the fact that no one is arguing for a command economy made up of 5 year plans, 1970s Soviet style, and that no, the US adopting a modern economy has nothing to do with a country like Venezuela.

Never mind defining the term, you have to put it into a narrative that is easy to understand, because no one pays attention to Powerpoint presentations. No one.
 
Oligarchs and GOP won't rest until they force America to have a Socialist revolution. Too much is never enough for these people.
 
Greenman said:
Wouldn't the easy answer be to point out that every democratic form of government is socialist? The spectrum is very broad, the argument is where we want to be on it.
Click to expand...
cytg111 said:
I think you need to recoin socialist agendas as something else, that an ram through that socialism is not communism and that socialism actually leads to higher values of freedom and democracy.
Click to expand...
dank69 said:
You'd think it would be that simple but many Americans are incapable of understanding that, incapable of wading through the propaganda telling them otherwise, and/or brainwashed from birth to believe they'll be rewarded for believing what they hear instead of what they see (AKA faith).
Click to expand...
Maybe along these lines we could include what Americans would lose if we didn't already have socialism and what the wealth class will take from them the deeper they stay asleep.
 
dank69 said:
You have to remember that we have been taught from birth that government waste is way worse than profit and not only that but profit motivation drives prices down dontchaknow.
Click to expand...
Yea, how is that working out? Just say a story on one of the TV news magazines a couple of days ago about how people are going over to Canada to buy their insulin because they cant afford it in the US, and it costs like 10% of the US cost in Canada.
 
I saw an ad on TV the the other day about how awful socialized medicine is, how long you have to wait to see a doctor, etc. So you know Big Pharma is getting nervous, and is ramping up the propaganda against a one payer system. Point is, unless you are rich and can afford to go to the best clinics, there is nothing outstanding about the care one gets now, and it comes at an outlandish cost.

Unfortunately, unless we get rid of the old fart Republicans in the house, no matter who is elected as president, I cant see them being able to get a bill through congress. Executive Order???? Not sure it is possible that way, although Trump seems to be able to do almost anything he wants that way.
 
To counter the narrative that socialist policies are bad you'd have to know why people think they are bad.

So the question is; why is socialism bad?

Personally I've never heard anyone articulate a valid reason. Its simply used as a pejorative.
 
ivwshane said:
To counter the narrative that socialist policies are bad you'd have to know why people think they are bad.

So the question is; why is socialism bad?

Personally I've never heard anyone articulate a valid reason. Its simply used as a pejorative.
Click to expand...

Are you under 30? Socialism to most older people means 'take from me what I worked hard to earn to give to people who don't work'. Obviously that isn't entirely what it means or the exact thing everyone believes it means, but the majority that are afraid of it, is exactly this reason. To compound it more is many older people associate it with the Soviet Union and as a bad thing that left millions poor. To make it even simpler though, it just means more taxes to most people and most people do not want more taxes.

Even during the debate it was 'middle class is going to get taxed more'. That isn't going to fly for most middle class voters given what just happened with the tax code.

We're being told:

Save more for retirement
Give us more money for all these things that really don't directly benefit you (in your mind - this is personal based and opinions will vary what is deemed necessary)
Everything you purchase, especially needs, is going up in price
Wages are stagnant while companies constantly tout record profits

Something has to give, and I do not agree that taxing people more is the answer. I do believe that the tax cuts the 1% got should be repealed at the very least and tax loopholes that get them out of paying taxes should be closed before we even consider bring raising middle class taxes to the table. I think what would help more than 'throwing more money at it' is smarter spending. I've worked in government spending departments and anyone who has will tell you the way it is done is a huge waste of money.

The tax changes pretty much didn't effect me overall and I'm not opposed to paying more if I had more say over where that money actually went.
 
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