problems between black and asian students in South Philly

[darkewaffle]

OK, I will show you how dumb you really are.

 

[Orignal Earl]

OK, I will show you how dumb you really are.

Let pretend to play your game. Let triple the percentage of Asians in gangs - 7% becomes 21% and let keep blacks in gangs the same at 31% as you think it will make everything kosher.

Blacks still have more in gangs (31% is larger than 21%) even if the numbers were skewed per your punny mind. Now you see how stupid you really are when you said "The very high number of Asian gang members"?

That is a very high number no?
Compare it to the white group and what do you get.
I've never been called dumb before in real life, quite the opposite actually.
Do you think maybe your letting a little bit of your own personal emotions immaturity sway you in this?
BTW, I've known a lot of Asian folk, mostly Chinese, in my time and all of them have been upstanding people.

 

[HumblePie]

Svnla,

What OE is trying to post is the percentage of likelihood a certain ethnic group is going to end up as part of a gang in America. He was pointing that when you factor that, then the two minority groups are not that far apart.

The fact that there is less Asians overall doesn't change the percentage of their demographic for being violent.

But also OE, by the same token, because Asian minority group is that much smaller in raw numbers than Blacks, it has a less overall negative impact on society at large. Maybe a large impact on their microcosm of a social area, but not at large.

 

[Svnla]

Awesome, then it ought to be relatively easy for you to show Original Earl's data from Wiki was false or fabricated. So go ahead and do it. All I've seen thus far is hyperbole.

Nonsense, my question was to illustrate the ridiculousness of arbitrary deciding what data is or is not false. Apparently, you think it's ridiculous too. Data can stand on its own merit without your seal of approval.

What if the Wiki sourced the FBI data?

/QUOTE]

I did, very easy, see my post above, his data was not wrong or made up, his analogy of the data was totally out of whack. Even with his stipulation (let mutliple 3x this and that), Asians still have lower number in gangs (21% vs. 31%). Feel freel to check it. And he made a statement of very high number of Asians in gang from that data?

Like other poster said, you don't cite wiki, you cite the original data. Give me one school that will let you cite wiki data over FBI data or even let you cite wiki.

WHAT IF? If this, if that. WTH happens to let show the original data or source and let others decide for themselves instead of "let do this to the data or that so the data would be better"?

Edit: Strange, this is the 2nd time that I can't quote you properly. Did not do that on purpose or even know how/why.

 

[BigDH01]

I did, very easy, see my post above, his data was not wrong or made up, his analogy of the data was totally out of whack. Even with his stipulation (let mutliple 3x this and that), Asians still have lower number in gangs (21% vs. 31%). Feel freel to check it. And he made a statement of very high number of Asians in gang from that data?

I don't care about his analysis of the data, I care about the data itself. Wikipedia did not say that Asians have a high gang affiliation rate, it just presented the numbers as per its source. Is Wiki wrong?

Like other poster said, you don't cite wiki, you cite the original data.

Like I asked before, does this mean I have to cite every paper that every paper I have ever used has cited? Can't you check the citation yourself?

Give me one school that will let you cite wiki data over FBI data or even let you cite wiki.

This is an appeal to authority. Do you think universities are the authoritative source in determining whether or not the information on Wikipedia is valid? I don't. As I said before, the data on Wikipedia can stand on its own merits.

WHAT IF? If this, if that. WTH happens to let show the original data or source and let others decide for themselves instead of "let do this to the data or that so the data would be better"?

I can't even decipher this message, so I'll leave it alone.

 

[Svnla]

Svnla,

What OE is trying to post is the percentage of likelihood a certain ethnic group is going to end up as part of a gang in America. He was pointing that when you factor that, then the two minority groups are not that far apart.

The fact that there is less Asians overall doesn't change the percentage of their demographic for being violent.

But also OE, by the same token, because Asian minority group is that much smaller in raw numbers than Blacks, it has a less overall negative impact on society at large. Maybe a large impact on their microcosm of a social area, but not at large.

I don't know how could you do a fair analogy or a scientific study if you mutliply this to that (manipulate data from another study).

Let see (I am using all data for this post from OE links)--75% of whites in the US population --> 75/12.3 = 6 or there are 6X of whites vs. blacks in the US population.

So by the same token, let multiple 31% of blacks in gang by 6, then we will have 186% just so we can have the same analogy as blacks vs. Asians in gang. Do you see how stupid the "let do this and that to the data to compare" is?

 

[Svnla]

I don't care about his analysis of the data, I care about the data itself. Wikipedia did not say that Asians have a high gang affiliation rate, it just presented the numbers as per its source. Is Wiki wrong?



Like I asked before, does this mean I have to cite every paper that every paper I have ever used has cited? Can't you check the citation yourself?



This is an appeal to authority. Do you think universities are the authoritative source in determining whether or not the information on Wikipedia is valid? I don't. As I said before, the data on Wikipedia can stand on its own merits.



I can't even decipher this message, so I'll leave it alone.

See my previous posts that already answered to most of your post. Is wiki wrong? You tell me, is that the same place that said Ted Kennedy was dead way before his time? <shrugs>

OE made a statement that contradict to mine. That's his reponsibility to provide original data to back him up (as I did several times).

You can splitting hair as much as you want to. After OE posted the original data (finally), I response in kind with his data. I never disputed his "original" data. Even with his "let multiple this by 3 to have a fair comparision" stipulation, his statement of "very high number of Asians in gangs" was full of holes. See my reply to HumblePie above.

You are entitled to use wiki or think wiki is all that. That's your opinion. I and others believe in original data are more reliable. I never know any establishments (Fortune 500) allow anyone in their organizations to cite wiki as source. What do they know..LOL.

Edit: Finally, the quote is working. Third time is the charm.

 

[HumblePie]

I don't know how could you do a fair analogy or a scientific study if you mutliply this to that (manipulate data from another study).

Stop right there with that statement. Go take at a minimal a statistics class and pay attention in it first. Then come back and read that statement you just made.

 

[JTsyo]

What's interesting about the black education problem in the US is that it's not because they're black and it's not because they're a minority. It's a problem that is very specific to the US. Black people born in Canada are statistically about the same as everyone else born in Canada. stats. The income numbers are heavily flawed because most black people in Canada are first generation immigrants, but this one particular line stands out:


Alright so summary:
-Black people in Canada are intelligent
-Minorities in the US thrive
-Black minorities in the US do not thrive?!?!

I blame rap music.

 

[evident]

i too blame rap music and the ghetto culture (also permeates to poor whites and other ethnicities, but is mostly associated with "black culture"). until people call it out, its going to fester into our society.

 

[Orignal Earl]

i too blame rap music and the ghetto culture (also permeates to poor whites and other ethnicities, but is mostly associated with "black culture"). until people call it out, its going to fester into our society.

There is rap music and ghetto culture in Canada.
I suppose you do see the ghetto culture mostly in the rich white kids though.

 

[classy]

I live in the area. Have spent time in every part of Philly in the daytime and at night. I have worked for years in Center City and still do. Its more than just rap music or black culture. Black culture is everywhere and has been for more than a decade even in white neighborhoods. Single parent homes are everywhere, but more so there its poverty, plain and simple. Society was built to have blacks be a permament under class. Its not going to go away in just a couple of decades. Young black kids especially males gravitate towards being rap stars or athletes because that is the only examples of success from the hell they live in.

Even those of us who have broken away, went down a path of education leaving behind the street so to speak, still find our themselves shut out from many places in society. Its hard to tell a young black man to develop his mind to be an engineer, but even those did all the right things can't get a job as one. For all too long many here take for granted what is generally kept from blacks as a whole.

As for these young asian kids their plight there is not unique or any different than any of the other kids who have survived south philly high. Some of my friends one in particular worked two jobs and she moved to the suburbs to keep her kids from going to high school there. Her words were that she believed her one son would end up dead. Its shame its that bad there, it really is. But no one saved the hundreds of blacks, whites, and hispanics who went to high school there. And ain't no one going to saved these asian kids either. If they can't survive like so many others, their only hope will be to do like my friends did, their parents will pick up and move.

And its not all the asian kids either. Some of them boys are seriously entrenched with some of those thug gangs mixed with all the races. I truly feel sorry for them, because I know first hand knowledge of what they are going through. But its jungle there for every kid.

 

[HumblePie]

classy, I really don't want to reply, "cry me a fucking river" but I am going to have to after reading your reply.

I'm not trying to make light of some of your points, that yes the system to some degree is inherently harder on the minorities and the poor. But, there is a HUGE difference when with that demographic the culture is not one of rising up, but the opposite. This goes for many demographics in similar situations all over the world. There are those people who rise to the occasion, and those that don't or ridicule those that try. Then those who make excuses and place all the blame elsewhere.

 

[classy]

classy, I really don't want to reply, "cry me a fucking river" but I am going to have to after reading your reply.

I'm not trying to make light of some of your points, that yes the system to some degree is inherently harder on the minorities and the poor. But, there is a HUGE difference when with that demographic the culture is not one of rising up, but the opposite. This goes for many demographics in similar situations all over the world. There are those people who rise to the occasion, and those that don't or ridicule those that try. Then those who make excuses and place all the blame elsewhere.

Hey here is the raw truth. South Philly High is a dangerous school that has chewed up and spit out kids regardless of their color or race. People throw around black culture, there is more to black culture than rap music. And I don't know what part of my post warranted cry me a river. What I posted is true, its just true. Doesn't mean its right, doesn't mean its an excuse for everything, but its true none the less. To many times here folks make black indescrections worse than any other race and its just not true.

Trust me I truly feel for these kids, but after seeing and knowing what happens to many of the kids there, the reality is its bad for all of them. Hopefully things can get better, but the further that area sinks into poverty the worse its going to get. I didn't grow up in a neighborhood like that, thank god, but I also understand that the violence is spread equally there as well.

 

[ShawnD1]

There is rap music and ghetto culture in Canada.
I suppose you do see the ghetto culture mostly in the rich white kids though.

While Americans associate crime with blacks, Canadians associate crime with natives.

One that really stands out is the thing about black people not being able to get cabs in the US. Here in Canada, I've heard several cab drivers explicitly say that they do not pickup natives because natives often don't pay the bill or they will jack the driver or some other thing like that.

Some Canadian news articles can be swapped out word for word and it sounds like an American news article. I'll change Winnipeg to Detroit and change indian to black:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/07/30/city-crime.html

Native Black leaders' help needed to solve crime problem: councillor
Last Updated: Monday, July 30, 2007 | 6:18 PM CT
CBC News

A Winnipeg Detroit city councillor says it's "high time" for aboriginal black leaders in the city to work with governments to help put an end to a crime wave that has kept city police hopping.

Winnipeg Detroit police say they have never seen call volumes as high as this summer.

After another violent weekend in the city &#8212; with at least three stabbings, one fatal &#8212; police spokesman Sgt. Kelly Dennison said Monday that police officers are literally running from call to call.

"Our officers are experiencing far more violent crime," he said Monday. "We are seeing a lot more serious offenses being committed, and it's just a sheer volume thing for the [Winnipeg Detroit Police Service] right now."

Harry Lazarenko, city councillor for the Mynarski ward, said his area sees violent crime every night, and he's received calls from constituents who are afraid to leave their homes.

The longtime city councillor called on aboriginal black leaders in the city to get involved in solving problem.

"My concern is, where are the native black leaders? They are heard any other time," said Lazarenko, who lives on Magnus MLK Avenue, which has been the scene of several shootings this year.

"People are getting killed, innocent people, young people, and I think that it's high time they would step up to the plate and come and meet with us, meet with the province state and the federal government and say, 'Look, we want this problem solved.'

"I'm asking these aboriginal black leaders to get involved because this is the biggest &#8212; you know, people that are having problems is with them &#8212; they've got young kids, they're leading a life of crime. They're dying."

Morris Shannacappo, head of the Southern Manitoba Michigan Chiefs Thugz organization, bristled at Lazarenko's remarks.

"I'm surprised at Lazarenko for making such a comment without looking at history and exactly why we are the way we are today," he said. "Why can I not share the bountiness of this whole country, so that there's absolutely no poverty for anyone?"

Aboriginal Black people are more likely to be the victims of crime and more likely to be involved with the justice system as an offender, according to Statistics Canada USA.

The Aboriginal Black Justice Inquiry, an extensive examination of aboriginals' blacks' relationship with the Manitoba Michigan justice system in the 1990s, estimated aboriginal black adults in the province state were six times more likely to be incarcerated than non-aboriginal non-black adults.

Shannacappo said the problem is partly a result of aboriginal black people being continually frustrated and pushed to extreme behaviour. The federal government is not living up to its treaty obligations to First Nations, he said.

Pretty much everything translates over perfectly.
statistics about natives in Canada (read it and see if it sounds like black statistics in the US)
highlights:
-Canada dropped from first to eighth as the best country in the world to live primarily due to housing and health conditions in First Nations communities
-The First Nations&#8217; infant mortality rate is 1.5 times higher than the Canadian infant mortality rate
-A First Nations man will die 7.4 years earlier than a non-Aboriginal Canadian
- The First Nations suicide rate is more than twice the Canadian rate
-Aboriginal peoples make up only 5&#37; of the total population in Canada but represent 16% of new HIV infections
-Graduation (high school) rates for the on-reserve population range from 28.9%-32.1% annually. (Detroit, Michigan has similar graduation rates)
-Unemployment rates for all Aboriginal groups continue to be at least double the rate of the non-Aboriginal population. Registered Indians have the highest unemployment rate of any Aboriginal group, at 27%


Thug Life definitely exists in Canada, but it's not black people. Black people in Canada are just like white people in Canada. Natives in Canada are equivalent to blacks in the US. Oriental and east Indian are the same in both countries (highly educated, hard working, top income brackets).

 

[HumblePie]

Classy the cry me a river part is your post is pointing most of the blame on "society" and that is why these kids are turning out this way. I saying that while there is societal influences holding them back some, it is not what is stopping them from excelling. The Asian kid is held back the same as the Black kids in the OP, but he isn't letting it stop him. The kids are doing it mostly to themselves.

I am also not stating that only Black kids do this to themselves. I'm saying I've seen it everywhere. It can't be blamed on society for microcosms of culture in that area are to blame of the kids themselves.

 

[classy]

Classy the cry me a river part is your post is pointing most of the blame on "society" and that is why these kids are turning out this way. I saying that while there is societal influences holding them back some, it is not what is stopping them from excelling. The Asian kid is held back the same as the Black kids in the OP, but he isn't letting it stop him. The kids are doing it mostly to themselves.

I am also not stating that only Black kids do this to themselves. I'm saying I've seen it everywhere. It can't be blamed on society for microcosms of culture in that area are to blame of the kids themselves.

Where the hell did I say society is most of the blame? I pointed that out in contrast to the typical its just black culture. Its not just rap music, its just not one thing. And its not all on just blacks either. And the asians kids are experiencing nothing different than any of the other students who are or have went there. But poverty is the number driving force behind the mindset. And it just intensifies when the belief that there is no reason to try harder. I believe most blacks in that situation are about 80% of the blame. The other 20% I put on the fact that we just don't have equal footing even when equal.

How could anyone expect a black kid to go to school there, not the bad seed, but the ones who are good students, but they see these students given nice parts of the school and all they get is the lousy parts. Thats the 20% that damn sure ain't their fault, while it doesn't warrant their behavior, to criticize them for having resentment is ridiculous. Now I have the belief you pay for what you believe in. I live in a nice town with a terrfic school system to protect the little one. I wouldn't live there, but if I had to, I would desire that my kid got equal treatment and resources as any other kid, regardless if they can speak english or not. These are the parts where others have to help balance it out.

 

[HumblePie]

classy,

Society was built to have blacks be a permament under class. Its not going to go away in just a couple of decades.

Is just one part of the post you made early. That bold statement at the top comes across as if that is the defining factor for the problem with these kids. It is why I stated, cry me a fucking river, because I know that to not be true.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Thug Life definitely exists in Canada, but it's not black people. Black people in Canada are just like white people in Canada. Natives in Canada are equivalent to blacks in the US. Oriental and east Indian are the same in both countries (highly educated, hard working, top income brackets).

Waa Ta Neeee..
Moonieass get some Native Posse in yo face..

heh

Ya, I agree.. Regina is probably just as bad as Winnipeg
I was married to a Cree woman and have a lot of Native friends. You can expect your house to fill to the brim every weekend with every uncle and auntie (5 times removed) coming in from the Rez, and eat you out of house and home.
That's their culture of course and you learn to live with it. And I learned to love it.
A bonus is my buddies can get me smokes half price.

But yes, you see the young Natives living the thug life and come from similar hellholes that you see among Blacks in the large urban centers (and the small, I suppose) in America.

Course, America has its own share of poverty struck Natives too.
Booze has played a large role in this. Booze and Native folk just don't mix well.