Problem with my 02 Camry *making noise*

[QueBert]

I bought it in December, I know the original owner and he took immaculate care of it. He gave me the paper work for every time he took it in for maintenance. 2 nights ago it started making a weird sound, the closest I can describe it would probably be it had a semi diesel engine sound. I thought it might just be in my head and I've never noticed it before. I don't drive the car that much, probably 1k a month max. Last week I was driving about 10mph down a small street and hit a pot hole, something banged on the bottom. I'm not a car guy but that's the only thing I can think of that might have caused this. Yesterday it got a bit louder, I didn't drive much just 2-3 miles. Any ways fast forward to today, I took it to get an oil change and as soon as I pulled it in the shop (never been there before) the manager looks at my car and asked me if the car had any oil in it. The oil level was fine BTW.

Then a mechanic pulled out some long tube looking thing and put it ear up to it while moving it around my engine. He went underneath and poked around. After about 10 minutes the manager comes out and tells me I need to get it fixed (no crap) I told him I didn't have enough money unless it was something simple. He said something about my barrings might blow out if I drove it without getting it fixed. But at that point he still couldn't tell me what it was. He said for $100 they'd diagnose it, but then he changed his story from how my barrings were close to blowing out to "it might be something small" That was said after I told him my money was semi low.

I don't know much about cars, but the noise it's making obviously isn't good, how bad it is I don't know. He wanted me to leave the car there and come back when I had the money, he was a Middle Easterner, and I got the feeling he was sizing me up from the moment he said hi to me. His final advice was "drive home, park and don't drive it again" even though 5 minutes before he was telling me how it might be next to nothing. I don't have enough set aside for any big repairs. And I know my description of the symptom probably sucks, but possibly somebody here can tell me a bit more about what it is? Also the manager guy said he wouldn't recommend I change my oil, I told them to go ahead and just do the oil change and I'd be back. He said new oil will be thinner and could lead to causing big engine problems. Most of what he said sounded like BS to try and get me to spend $$$, but the noise definitely has me concerned. I gotta drive for work, but he's telling me don't drive period. And without work I can't pay to have anything done to the car so I'm screwed if he's not BS'ing me.

Any words of wisdom from the resident mechanics would be awesome.

 

[Vette73]

Hard to say without hearing it. But it sounds like they think the engine bearings (main or rod) are bad. If that is the case STOP driving.

But it could also be other mechanical parts that are banging that can cause similar noise. But any good tech can usually tell you what it is real quick.

But with that said I would not drive until you get it looked at. Where do you live? Also use your cell phone and record the engine running and post here.

 

[QueBert]

good idea on recording audio I didn't think about that, I live about 50 miles from my old mechanic. He's the only one I really know so I trust what he tells 100%. I live in the Inland Empire if that helps you any. If it's what you said it might be, I don't think driving 50 miles will be an option, looks like I need to find a local guy and hope he doesn't try to screw me over.

http://www.fusion-tek.net/hood_open.mp3 <- Audio with hood open

http://www.fusion-tek.net/hood_closed.mp3 <- Audio with hood closed (camera right by right wheel well)

 

[amdhunter]

good idea on recording audio I didn't think about that, I live about 50 miles from my old mechanic. He's the only one I really know so I trust what he tells 100&#37;. I live in the Inland Empire if that helps you any. If it's what you said it might be, I don't think driving 50 miles will be an option, looks like I need to find a local guy and hope he doesn't try to screw me over.

http://www.fusion-tek.net/hood_open.mp3 <- Audio with hood open

http://www.fusion-tek.net/hood_closed.mp3 <- Audio with hood closed (camera right by right wheel well)

What the hell? My first thought would be that there was no oil in the car either. That sounds like the time a friend of mines drove his Mustang with almost no oil in it (had a leak we didn't know about) and the engine ended up killing itself. He busted a lifter or two.

Maybe it's a rod bearing? (I am purely guessing.)

That sounds bad.

 

[Vette73]

Hard to say but could also be in the top end of the car (cam bearing/lifter/etc...)

But 1 thing I can tell from that sound clip, STOP driving it!

 

[exdeath]

That isn't deep enough or low enough frequency to be bottom end. It's valve train, accessory, loose pulley, oil/water pump, or internal engine balancer. Rod knock is much much deeper, slower, and unmistakable.

Last time I heard that fast light clacky sound on a Camry, it was the oil pump sprocket that was loose and rounded out the key hole until the timing belt jumped and prevented it from starting (thus also saving the engine from damage)

 

[exdeath]

Just got home and listened on headphones. If you're saying you're hearing it loud and crisp from the passenger wheel well, I would have to say oil pump, as that is the bottom front of the engine just behind the crank pulley.

I'm backing up that guess with the logical reasoning that the oil pump uses a very small sprocket, so it's one of the very few things on the engine that would be spinning fast enough and being capable of making a sound that fast just sitting there at idle at 850 rpm.

2002 4 cyl (is it a 2.4L?) uses a timing chain instead of a belt, bad timing chain tensioners make noises like that as well. If you think about the linear speed of a chain, and something in contact with the individual chain links like a bad guide/tensioner, the speed of the noise makes sense as well.

With the engine just idling, that noise seems to be too fast of a noise to be anything cam/crank related. 850 rpm idle / 60 sec/min = 14 rotations per second, with power strokes and valve train events happening every two rotations. If it was a valve/bottom end problem, it would be limited to one cylinder (unlikely for all to go bad at the exact same time) and thus only produce noise 7 times a second. The noise you have is much faster than that; much like the sound of how many chain links pass a tensioner/guide every second, for example.

Hope that helps.

PS: this is what rod knock sounds like; slow and deep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfJIpiQZtR4

And this is lifter tick; slow, light, and regular:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wVzNdKU5w&feature=related

Notice how the valve noise is around half the speed of the rod noise, and your sound is much faster than either of those. So again my vote for oil pump or timing chain tensioner.

 

[QueBert]

Just got home and listened on headphones. If you're saying you're hearing it loud and crisp from the passenger wheel well, I would have to say oil pump, as that is the bottom front of the engine just behind the crank pulley.

I'm backing up that guess with the logical reasoning that the oil pump uses a very small sprocket, so it's one of the very few things on the engine that would be spinning fast enough and being capable of making a sound that fast just sitting there at idle at 850 rpm.

2002 4 cyl (is it a 2.4L?) uses a timing chain instead of a belt, bad timing chain tensioners make noises like that as well. If you think about the linear speed of a chain, and something in contact with the individual chain links like a bad guide/tensioner, the speed of the noise makes sense as well.

With the engine just idling, that noise seems to be too fast of a noise to be anything cam/crank related. 850 rpm idle / 60 sec/min = 14 rotations per second, with power strokes and valve train events happening every two rotations. If it was a valve/bottom end problem, it would be limited to one cylinder (unlikely for all to go bad at the exact same time) and thus only produce noise 7 times a second. The noise you have is much faster than that; much like the sound of how many chain links pass a tensioner/guide every second, for example.

Hope that helps.

PS: this is what rod knock sounds like; slow and deep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfJIpiQZtR4

And this is lifter tick; slow, light, and regular:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-wVzNdKU5w&feature=related

Notice how the valve noise is around half the speed of the rod noise, and your sound is much faster than either of those. So again my vote for oil pump or timing chain tensioner.

I read what you said and I appreciate the level of detail you went into. Now I feel utterly stupid for something I said in my post with the audio links, it was by the LEFT wheel well I recorded it not the right. I don't know how I got left/right confused and probably makes all a lot of difference here, damn damn damn

it definitely doesn't sound like the noise in your 1st link, and maybe I should add when I push on the peddle the sound seems to go away, I'm sure it's still there but it's not getting louder as I accelerate. I can hear it when I'm at a red light, not so much when I was driving. I haven't drove today after the repair shop told me to stop driving. I'm going to have it towed to mechanic Friday, hopefully it's what you said it might be. Sounds a whole lot cheaper than what the repair shop told me today.

 

[DivideBYZero]

That isn't deep enough or low enough frequency to be bottom end. It's valve train, accessory, loose pulley, oil/water pump, or internal engine balancer. Rod knock is much much deeper, slower, and unmistakable.

Last time I heard that fast light clacky sound on a Camry, it was the oil pump sprocket that was loose and rounded out the key hole until the timing belt jumped and prevented it from starting (thus also saving the engine from damage)

Don't be so sure. I had a V70 T5 (a pool car) that had an undiagnosed oil leak and a faulty oil warning light. The sound initially sounded like something was fouling the cooling fan. Of course, it got worse. Much worse, but to start with it was really a very light sound.

EDIT: OK, so I listened to the audio, and that doesn't sound like the rod bearings. Heh. I'm going with top end, now, too.

 

[pcgeek11]

I would guess the timing chain guide is worn allowing the chain to rub and clatter.

 

[bruceb]

Sounds like valve train or the as said, loose timing chain and it's hitting the timing chain cover. Definitely not the mains or rod bearings. I would pull the valve cover and have a look. Also put an oil pressure gauge on it and see what idle pressure is at. Should be around 30 PSI or so at idle.

 

[boomerang]

He said he hit a pothole but was uncertain if that's what brought on the noise. How about the shield is bent and the torque convertor is rubbing against it? It has a "tinny" sound to it to me.

 

[Paperlantern]

What side was the pothole hit on? May have some bearing on this... From him saying it was left i would also assume left... but thought I'd ask.

 

[QueBert]

Great feedback, hummm my mechanic isn't in town right now so I'm going to have to wait a few days for him to be able to see it. I don't have another car to drive around, so I guess I'm stuck at home for a few days. Hopefully it's the timing chain as a few people here mentioned it could be. I'm a car n00b but that sounds like a much cheaper repair than rod berrings. Just a total guess though on my part

Thanks to everyone who's chimed in here, maybe it's not as bad as the dude at the repair shop was making it out to be.

 

[QueBert]

Ok I had a neighbor come look at it, he's not a mechanic but he's pretty good with cars. The noise today is much less intense. But he poked around with a PVC pipe to his ear and said he's 75&#37; sure it's the starter. I had it replaced, I dunno about 3-4 months ago. I trust his judgement, but I was wondering if just by the audio I posted anyone here would agree with his call. He said it sounded like the Bendix to him.

 

[exdeath]

Could be, something dragging on the edge of the flex plate would definitely make a sound like that.

 

[QueBert]

in a strange update, I took it to a local shop I like because my mechanic wasn't going to have any time to look at it for awhile. They charge a lot more than him but are good. Any ways, I drove it there and the manager and a tech came out and listened to the sound, couldn't identify it by just hearing it so they asked me to leave the car. Here's the strange part. As soon as they put it up on the rack it stopped making the noise, they drove it around a bit, still no noise. They spent a few hours looking at it yesterday and could never get it to make the noise again. They came in today and tried cold starting it to see if that would do anything, sounded normal. After an hour of messing with it today 1 of the guys who had came out yesterday when I brought it and hear the noise said "we can't get it do it, so we have no idea what it was or what needs to be fixed" Since they were unable to diagnose anything I didn't have to pay any $$$.

So I went and picked it up, sure enough the engine sounds fine, I drove it home and drove it around a few miles to try and get it to come back with no luck. Now I know it didn't magically fix itself so right now I'm real puzzled. I'm suppose to bring it back as soon as it starts making the sounds again. But for the meanwhile I'm scared to drive any decent distance because I know whatever the problem was will be coming back.